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What would the GOP do about Ukraine?
Miami Herald ^ | 3/12/14 | Pat Buchanan

Posted on 03/15/2014 7:36:26 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo

Though Barack Obama is widely regarded as a weak president, is the new world disorder really all his fault?

Listening to the more vocal voices of the GOP one might think so.

According to Sen. Lindsey Graham, Vladimir Putin’s move into Crimea “started with Benghazi.”

“When you kill Americans and nobody pays a price, you invite this type of aggression,” said Graham. Putin “came to the conclusion after Benghazi, Syria, Egypt” that Barack Obama is “a weak indecisive leader.”

Also blaming Obama for Crimea, John McCain got cheers at AIPAC by charging, “This is the ultimate result of a feckless foreign policy in which nobody believes in America’s strength anymore.”

This “blatant act” of aggression “cannot stand,” said McCain.

How McCain plans to force Putin to cough up Crimea was left unexplained.

Now Marco Rubio seems to be auditioning to replace the retired Joe Lieberman as third amigo. His CPAC speech is described by the L.A. Times:

“(Rubio) said that China is threatening to take parts of the South China Sea … a nuclear North Korea is testing missiles, Venezuela is slaughtering protesters, and Cuba remains an oppressive dictatorship. He added that Iran continues to pursue nuclear weapons and regional hegemony and Russia is attempting to ‘reconstitute' the former Soviet Union.”

What all these countries have in common, said Rubio, is “totalitarian governments.” Rubio proposes a U.S. foreign policy of leading the world to “stand up to the spread of totalitarianism.”

Not quite as ambitious as George W. Bush’s “ending tyranny in our world,” but it will do.

Where to begin.

First, it is absurd to suggest Putin felt free to restore Crimea to Russia because of Obama’s inaction in Benghazi. And while Castro’s Cuba and Kim Jong-Un’s North Korea are totalitarian, Putin’s Russia is not Stalin’s. Nor is Xi Jinping’s China Mao’s China.

Russia and China are great power rivals and antagonists, not the monster regimes of the Cold War that massacred millions. We must deal with them, and they don’t take direction from Uncle Sam.

As for Iran, 17 U.S. intelligence agencies say it has no nuclear weapons program. Moreover, Hassan Rouhani is an elected president now presiding over the dilution of his 20-percent-enriched uranium in compliance with our November agreement.

McCain points to Obama’s failure to enforce his “red line” in Syria with air and missile strikes, when Bashar Assad used chemical weapons, as the reason Obama is not respected.

But a little history is in order here.

While John Kerry and Obama were ready to attack Syria, it was the American people who rose up and said “no.” It was Congress that failed to give Obama the authorization to go to war.

If McCain, Graham and Rubio think Obama should attack Syria, why don’t they get their hawkish Republican brethren in the House to authorize war on Syria? See how that sits with the voters in 2014.

Last fall, Lindsey Graham was shopping around a resolution for a U.S. war on Iran. What became of that brainstorm? After Iraq and Afghanistan, Americans are weary of what all this bellicosity inevitably brings.

Is Russia really reconstituting the Soviet Union?

True, Putin seeks to bring half a dozen ex-Soviet republics, now nations, into an economic union to rival the EU. But where the state religion of the USSR was Marxism-Leninism, i.e., communism, Putin is trying to restore Russian Orthodox Christianity.

There is a difference, as there is a difference between Stalin murdering priests and Putin prosecuting Pussy Riot for blasphemous misbehavior on the high altar of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior.

How do we think King Abdullah would have handled the women, had they pulled their stunt in the Great Mosque in Mecca?

While China is indeed moving to claim the East and South China seas, bringing her into possible conflict with Japan over the Senkakus, the GOP is not without culpability here.

It was a Bush-led Republican Party that voted to throw open America’s markets to China. Result: In the last two years, China ran up $630 billion in trade surpluses at our expense, a figure larger than the entire U.S. defense budget for 2015.

Our trade deficits with China provide her annually with enough dollars to finance her own defense budget twice over. Twenty years of such U.S. trade deficits have given the Middle Kingdom the trillions it needed to build the armed forces to drive us out of East Asia.

Are U.S. sailors and Marines now to die defending the Senkakus against a menacing China that the Bush free traders helped mightily to create?

If Sen. Rubio wants to “stand up” to China, why not call for a 50 percent tariff on all Chinese-made goods. Try that one out on the K Street bundlers and U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

Yet Marco Rubio in the primaries would be healthy for America. A showdown between non-interventionists and the neocon War Party, to determine which way America goes, is long overdue. Let’s get it on.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Suicide of a Superpower: Will America Survive to 2025?”


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: bhorussia; lindseygraham; patbuchanan; rubio
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"A showdown between non-interventionists and the neocon War Party, to determine which way America goes, is long overdue. Let’s get it on."
1 posted on 03/15/2014 7:36:26 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Well, one thing is for sure...the Ukraine won’t get a billion dollars just becuz....and with no strings.


2 posted on 03/15/2014 7:38:37 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Unless we have a treaty obligation to defend them when they come under attack, we’d do nothing. The “neocon war party” is about defending Israel, not former soviet satellite states.


3 posted on 03/15/2014 7:39:51 AM PDT by MNnice
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To: Sacajaweau

Hopefully the US would do nothing. Uki is none of our biz. Lock Kerry in a bathroom.


4 posted on 03/15/2014 7:42:23 AM PDT by Pit1 (Obama is the big pile in the road.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
What would the GOP do about Ukraine?

Try to "fix" the war the DemoRat pResident got us into, and fail.

5 posted on 03/15/2014 7:42:27 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
According to Sen. Lindsey Graham, Vladimir Putin’s move into Crimea “started with Benghazi.”

Then just maybe the piece of garbage shouldn't have been cheerleading for Libyan intervention in the first place.

I'm afraid we're just going to have to ride things out till sanity is returned to Washington.
6 posted on 03/15/2014 7:43:52 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

old Pat is a delusional nutter and justifying a former KGB dictator.
Putin
is trying to recreate the old Soviet union with invasions and threats.
The Marxist Muslim invited this invasion by probably giving them the okay.!
Recall Obama saying to them I will hAve more flexibility after the election .
When will the fool just shut and retire .

.


7 posted on 03/15/2014 7:43:55 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

In a word, YES!


8 posted on 03/15/2014 7:47:16 AM PDT by DownInFlames ( I)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Threaten seriously to bomb Putin out.

That should scare most of the generals (like Hitler’s before WWII)

Putin would be toast in Russia (like Khrushchev after the Cuban Missile Crisis)

Failure to do this will build Putin and lead to further aggression, hubris and sad miscalculation (like Hitler after Czechoslovakia)

History rhyming on multiple syllables


9 posted on 03/15/2014 7:47:19 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE! --- ISLAM DELENDA EST)
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To: MNnice

You Paulbots are dangerous useful idiots and make ignorant comments.
Bill Clinton forced the Ukrainians to give up there huge nuclear arsenal in 1993 !
We signed a treaty with them and Britain and old Yeltsin run Russia.


10 posted on 03/15/2014 7:48:22 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: MNnice
The question is, would this have happen if republicans were in charge. With Obummer there is little threat he will respond with anything stronger than a harshly worded letter followed by an apology.

Our adversaries know he is weak. They all have a green light for there nefarious intentions. The world is on fire because of Obummer. How to fix it now is an entirely different and much more complex issue.

Kinda reminds me of the old oil commercial, “You can pay me now, or pay me latter”.

11 posted on 03/15/2014 7:50:15 AM PDT by MPJackal ("From my cold dead hands.")
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To: Pit1
Lock Kerry in a bathroom.

With McCain.

12 posted on 03/15/2014 7:50:53 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

The Paulbot mafia herd are beyond ignorant and so is that moron Pat B.
Putin is a dangerous murdeous dictator who wants to rebuild the old Soviet hell on earth .
He is literally redoing the Hitler “Sudenland”
invasion of Czech republic !


13 posted on 03/15/2014 7:55:11 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Navy Patriot

Try to “fix” the war the DemoRat pResident got us into, and fail.

Actually they would use it as a reason to pass amnesty and attack the tea party.. Thats about all thats important to the GOP these days.


14 posted on 03/15/2014 7:57:59 AM PDT by Breto (Stranger in a strange land... where did America go?)
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bfl


15 posted on 03/15/2014 7:58:28 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: MPJackal

A real president would have been in Russia for the Olympics with diplomacy going on to head it off. Instead resident Candyass was cowering under his desk whining about gay rights.

Despite the psychotic ravings of those who want to start a war with Russia, this is a done deal and our interference is only making things worse. Unfortunately I don’t see how we can extricate ourselves without encouraging Russia to take more and a new cold war will end us financially. Personally I can’t help but wonder if bringing about our fall isn’t Obama’s game plan.


16 posted on 03/15/2014 7:59:32 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ncalburt

Colonize a place then take it over. Well that game has had a lot of participants over the years.

A few to the good, most to the ill.

Were Crimea as friendly to Russia as Russia is claiming, why the farce. Is punk king?


17 posted on 03/15/2014 8:01:50 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: cripplecreek

Despite the psychotic ravings of those who want to start a war with Russia, this is a done deal and our interference is only making things worse.


Crimea is not a done deal. It’s chapter 1 of a new book. Chapter 2 or 3 will involve a NATO country. Maybe a shooting war with Russia in a NATO country. Think about that before you decide it’s best to ignore this murdering KGB bully.


18 posted on 03/15/2014 8:02:57 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: cripplecreek

It is not psychotic ravings to act towards Russia like nothing happened. It is an alarm of an awakened primitive bear.

Maybe this site might want to move off of the Roosky nginx as helpful as it has been. Anyone using Kaspersky antivirus, consider something like Norton. That kind of thing.


19 posted on 03/15/2014 8:03:40 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: lodi90

Lots of tough guys on line hoping for a good war they can watch on TV. Too few of you are on a flight to fight your glorious war.

The kind of people I call cowards.


20 posted on 03/15/2014 8:05:30 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

It is not => is it not...?


21 posted on 03/15/2014 8:05:48 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: cripplecreek

Maybe we have no Stolichnaya we can pitch, but we can get our fingers out of the Roosky pie. Consider alternatives to the few Roosky products out there.


22 posted on 03/15/2014 8:06:50 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

“What would the GOP do about Ukraine?”

What should the GOP do ANYTHING about Ukraine?

What should the Republicans do ANYTHING about Ukraine?

What should the Americans do ANYTHING about Ukraine?

Why should the United States care or spend money they have to borrow to do ANYTHING in Ukraine, 6,000 miles away from home?

WHAT’s the United States beef in Ukraine?


23 posted on 03/15/2014 8:10:10 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

Ah, we see the bear hair on your tongue, Marguerite.


24 posted on 03/15/2014 8:10:46 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: lodi90

It’s past time that the US should start thinking about severing ties with NATO. It was created to deal with the problem of a war ravaged Europe facing a messianic revolutionary power. That situation no longer exists and NATO now is the ultimate entangling alliance that George Washington warned us about.


25 posted on 03/15/2014 8:11:03 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Marguerite

We should be a lot more concerned about Russian, Chinese, and Islamist movement into central and south America.


26 posted on 03/15/2014 8:11:57 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Buchanan, or his like, for President for the good of the USA. The GOP needs a war monger for President, like they need a nutcase.


27 posted on 03/15/2014 8:12:43 AM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: cripplecreek

... or the South border.


28 posted on 03/15/2014 8:12:53 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The Russian Commie party that Putin worked fir as a KGB murderous agent in East Germany committed enthnic cleansing in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine .
They killed off or relocated millions of the original locals made up of Greeks and Turks and Ukrainian and Jews and then relocated Old Russian military retires and other good commie Russians to stop the unrest in these areas.
Catherine the great started the idea and the Putin crowd putting into hyper drive.
Pat B is first class nut-job for intentionally ignoring who Putin is and his real agenda is.
29 posted on 03/15/2014 8:14:51 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Marguerite

Wake up Maggie I think I got something to say to you


30 posted on 03/15/2014 8:15:12 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: ncalburt

I think I am pointing out that this is serious. If Crimea couldn’t wait to get out, it sure didn’t look it till recently.


31 posted on 03/15/2014 8:16:43 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Pit1

“Lock Kerry in a bathroom.”

Probably by far the best part of your suggestions. But you are right, the Ukraine is “none of our business”. The Russians shall continue to be Russians, and regardless of whatever social or economic schemes they adopt to keep the captured non-Russians as vassals, they will defend that hegemony to the death - either of all the subjugated people, or their own total annihilation.


32 posted on 03/15/2014 8:17:57 AM PDT by alloysteel (Obamacare - Death and Taxes now available online. One-stop shopping at its best!)
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To: Marguerite
Because we disarmed them in 1993 ,you useful pro Putin troll.
They had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world before the Brits and Us told them we would protect them and they gave it up!
33 posted on 03/15/2014 8:18:16 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: cripplecreek
Lots of tough guys on line hoping for a good war they can watch on TV. Too few of you are on a flight to fight your glorious war. The kind of people I call cowards.

The typical American taxpayer neither fights his own fires nor pursues armed criminals. That's why he pays taxes - so firefighters and policemen do it for him. The same analogy applies to military operations. If the American taxpayer wanted to fight all of the nation's wars on his own, the defense department should be disbanded and replaced with a levy that is imposed in military emergencies. Apart from average $5000 per capita tax imposed on the average taxpayer for having a defense department, in any confrontation with Russia, which has thousands of nuclear warheads mounted on missiles, the average American is risking his neck, as well as the necks of his entire family. To say that he is a coward for wanting Russia kept in check is more than an insult - it is factually wrong.

34 posted on 03/15/2014 8:18:23 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

i know.


35 posted on 03/15/2014 8:19:04 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

What was it Washington said in his farewell address about foreign entanglements? (And said, with great wisdom, about so many other things pertinent to our decline since then).

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Washington%27s_Farewell_Address


36 posted on 03/15/2014 8:19:20 AM PDT by dagogo redux
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To: MPJackal; MNnice
The question is, would this have happen if republicans were in charge.

And a good question it is.

If true Reagan philosophy Republicans had been in charge from the end of the Reagan Presidency until now, the answer is resoundingly no, this never would have happened.

And not because Reagan was strong, but because he was trustworthy. The Russians and Eastern Europe would not be reacting to empty threats of force and valid incidents of aggression, thievery, piracy and persecution of Christians.

Reagan didn't threaten force, he promised reasonably free market capitalistic growth, and he always kept his promises.

The American Socialist left has given rise to both the problem and the Neo-Con Faschista warmongers who won't have to risk their lives when they try to get tough with Putin.

37 posted on 03/15/2014 8:19:55 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: ncalburt
We signed a treaty with them and Britain and old Yeltsin run Russia.

My understanding is that it was an "Agreement" not a ratified Treaty and carries significantly less obligation.

38 posted on 03/15/2014 8:20:55 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

It’s past time that the US should start thinking about severing ties with NATO. It was created to deal with the problem of a war ravaged Europe facing a messianic revolutionary power. That situation no longer exists and NATO now is the ultimate entangling alliance that George Washington warned us about.


The founders sent the U. S. Navy to Africa. We have always had “foreign entanglements”.

NATO has worked pretty good the last 60 years. It’s foolish to discard it cavalierly in the face of fascistic aggression.


39 posted on 03/15/2014 8:21:45 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: ncalburt

The only thing I can say is if Crimea “wants” to be co-opted, let it BE Russia’s baby then. It’ll figure out that the post-USSR Russia will rape it as bad as the pre-USSR Russia. Sometimes it takes a disaster to show that something is more than a “mere political move.”


40 posted on 03/15/2014 8:23:25 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Zhang Fei

I must have missed the part in the constitution about paying taxes to fight wars for other countries.


41 posted on 03/15/2014 8:23:34 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ncalburt

pre-USSR => USSR


42 posted on 03/15/2014 8:24:33 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created in 1949 by the United States, Canada, and several Western European nations to provide collective security against the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union ceased to exist in 1992 - 22 years ago. Why does NATO still exist?

Ahead of the reunification of Germany in 1990, there was a promise not to expand NATO eastward. The West did everything it could to give to M.Gorbatchev the impression that NATO membership was out of the question for countries like Poland, Hungary or Czechoslovakia. Why did NATO break its promise?


43 posted on 03/15/2014 8:25:45 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: cripplecreek

Certainly one option would be to hunker down behind a great wall. That was feasible in George Washington’s day. Today when a full navy can arrive at your doorstep without having to undergo Columbus-era tribulations, not so feasible.


44 posted on 03/15/2014 8:26:56 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
I think the idea is more that the GOP would have pushed the missile defense system in Eastern Europe, been more suspicious of Putin, and worked to integrate Ukraine into united Europe.

Whether that's true, whether it would have worked, and what a Republican president would do if Putin acted up against Ukraine are all debatable questions. To judge from what was said in the election campaigns, though, Palin, McCain, and Romney all were under fewer illusions about Putin and Russia than Obama was.

45 posted on 03/15/2014 8:28:24 AM PDT by x
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Not objecting to your comment, only that a history of the importance of the religion aspect of Crimea gives insight into it’s future, and the rest of the world.

http://www.morningstarministries.org/resources/prophetic-bulletins/2014/ukraine-crisis-part-2-0#.UyRiv2d3vIUs.


46 posted on 03/15/2014 8:28:55 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: cripplecreek

Lots of tough guys on line hoping for a good war they can watch on TV. Too few of you are on a flight to fight your glorious war.


Actually, you are wrong. I spend a good bit of time over in Europe. I have seen the graves there of those murdered by Russians. Many times. History shows that whereever Russians march misery follows. Crimea is the end of the beginning of Putin’s adventures. Ignoring him now will just increase the bloodshed in the end.


47 posted on 03/15/2014 8:30:13 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: ncalburt

You want the US to go to war over the Ukraine?

You’re right, though, Putin is trying for an empire with global domination. He’s using military force in nations all around the world. Russia has 400 bases in countries around the globe., Russian troops are fighting in Afghanistan; they bombed Libya; they invaded and occupied Iraq; and Putin wants to bomb Syria.

.. oh wait, that’s the US that is undertaking all that global military action. But you’re worried about Russia meddling in a country that’s right next door. Double standard, anyone?


48 posted on 03/15/2014 8:30:55 AM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: ncalburt

You want the US to go to war over the Ukraine?

You’re right, though, Putin is trying for an empire with global domination. He’s using military force in nations all around the world. Russia has 400 bases in countries around the globe., Russian troops are fighting in Afghanistan; they bombed Libya; they invaded and occupied Iraq; and Putin wants to bomb Syria.

.. oh wait, that’s the US that is undertaking all that global military action. But you’re worried about Russia meddling in a country that’s right next door. Double standard, anyone?


49 posted on 03/15/2014 8:31:15 AM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: HiTech RedNeck

GFY, RedNeck


50 posted on 03/15/2014 8:31:46 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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