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California gun parts store refuses to turn over customer list to federal officials
Fox News ^ | March 15, 2014

Posted on 03/15/2014 9:49:20 AM PDT by Olog-hai

The owner of a California store that sells gun parts to build rifles from scratch is refusing to turn over his customer list to federal officials.

Dimitrios Karras, owner of Ares Armor in Oceanside, told Fox5SanDiego.com that Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents are investigating his business because it sells AR-15 lower receivers, which contain the gun’s operating parts.

The company sold thousands of 80 percent receivers in with colors showing where the customer can drill, making it easier and cheaper to build. The ATF said the sales are illegal and demanded the company turn over the products and names of customers who purchased them, according to the report. …

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: ar15; aresarmor; atf; banglist; eparmory; guncontrol; lofan; lowerreceivers; oceanside

1 posted on 03/15/2014 9:49:20 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

So they’ll raid it and take it.


2 posted on 03/15/2014 9:50:34 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: Olog-hai

If he’s smart, they’ll never find the list.


3 posted on 03/15/2014 9:56:34 AM PDT by TheZMan (Buy more ammo.)
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To: Olog-hai

By ATF definition, an 80% receiver is NOT a receiver.
It is just a hunk of metal.
Also by ATF regulation, completing the receiver is NOT illegal, though it does have restrictions.


4 posted on 03/15/2014 10:00:26 AM PDT by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and is not afraid of the unlawful.)
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To: mylife
By ATF definition, an 80% receiver is NOT a receiver.

Hopefully the guy didn't machine right up to 80 percent or the Feds will find a toolmark somewhere that crosses the 80 percent threshold and weaver the guy.

5 posted on 03/15/2014 10:05:09 AM PDT by fso301
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To: RIghtwardHo

If the list doesn’t exist anymore, “they” can’t get it ...


6 posted on 03/15/2014 10:05:10 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57, returning after lurking since 2000)
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To: mylife
By ATF definition, an 80% receiver is NOT a receiver. It is just a hunk of metal.

...or plastic.

7 posted on 03/15/2014 10:05:19 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: fso301

That is the problem with these regulations.
They nail people on technicalities.

The ATF 922 laws are almost impossible to fathom.


8 posted on 03/15/2014 10:07:47 AM PDT by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and is not afraid of the unlawful.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine

Yes.


9 posted on 03/15/2014 10:08:11 AM PDT by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and is not afraid of the unlawful.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine

The only thing that would be more evil is a home printed polymer receiver. /s


10 posted on 03/15/2014 10:09:20 AM PDT by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and is not afraid of the unlawful.)
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To: TheZMan
If he’s smart, they’ll never find the list.

Digital scans stored on an encrypted drive with hard copies stored waaaay offsite and underground.

11 posted on 03/15/2014 10:10:15 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Do I really need ot use the sarcasm tag?)
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To: mylife

Those facts are not in dispute, though I am sure a few nitwit reporters will get things wrong.

The issue at stake is a certain brand of polymer 80% receiver. The BATFE claims, despite the protests of much of the community, that this particular brand of polymer lower is really a complete lower rather than an 80% lower.


12 posted on 03/15/2014 10:10:58 AM PDT by jameslalor
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To: mylife

“By ATF definition”

They don’t have to follow even their own regulations.

The government is totally out of control.


13 posted on 03/15/2014 10:12:12 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Olog-hai

If the President can nor obey laws that he asked to be made why can not we the people refuse to obey laws that we did not ask to be made?


14 posted on 03/15/2014 10:12:30 AM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah so shall it be again,")
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To: fso301

A lot of these shops sell the 80% lowers and host build parties. I was supposed to attend one in Oceanside last year. I wonder if this shop did the same.


15 posted on 03/15/2014 10:16:38 AM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (If you don't stand up, you don't stand a chance.)
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To: fso301

“Hopefully the guy didn’t machine right up to 80 percent or the Feds will find a toolmark somewhere that crosses the 80 percent threshold and weaver the guy.”

The 80% receivers in question are injection molded plastic. They were being made by a firm in Bakersfield, CA by the name of EP Armory ( who have already been raided by the thugs from the BATFE). The EP 80% receiver has a “plastic plug” in the fire control pocket that is a different color than the body of the receiver, making in easy to “create” a functional part with a Dremel. The ATF contends that the parts are illegal because they were “originally functional” and that the plugs made them “nonfictional” which they view as illegal. The problem they have is according to EP Armory, they mold the plug and then overmold the receiver and thus the part is never “functional.” It’s going to be interesting to see how the courts act. Also, one of the partners in Ares is an attorney who is very well versed in the 2A and state and federal gun laws. Finally, the City of National City, CA ( an interesting name in view of the fact that it’s run by a bunch of Marxists) is trying to force Ares to tae down their business sign on top pf their building because it depicts an AR-15. The city claims it’s violating their sign ordinance despite the fact that the sign structure itself has been on top of the building for years. Buy lots of popcorn, this is going to be fun to watch because Ares says that they have the money to fight both the ATF and the city.


16 posted on 03/15/2014 10:17:41 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

“I was supposed to attend one in Oceanside last year. I wonder if this shop did the same.”

Could be, because Ares has a facility in Oceanside, and a separate machine shop where they host the build parties. They have a 45 minute YouTube video about their fight with National City. Fun to see how our Marxist government tramples on citizens rights when those citizens want to engage in a business that the government doesn’t “approve of.”


17 posted on 03/15/2014 10:20:48 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: mylife
The ATF 922 laws are almost impossible to fathom.

Nothing an executive order can't fix.

18 posted on 03/15/2014 10:27:14 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator ( 2+2 = V)
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To: Olog-hai
Ideally, the place only has a customer list of people who buy wholesale lots of parts, and sell them for cash at gun shows.

If a guy's whole point in buying an 80% receiver was to have something which the government had no record of, then he would be a fool to give the seller his name and address, or buy with anything other than cash.

19 posted on 03/15/2014 10:28:02 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Olog-hai

This is the same shop where the local town demanded he remove his sign that had an AR15 on it. They threatened to close him down if he didn’t. I guess this is their way of doing it. Nice to have jackbooted thugs at your disposal.


20 posted on 03/15/2014 11:13:23 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: Olog-hai

Why is there a list in the first place?


21 posted on 03/15/2014 11:36:41 AM PDT by Veggie Todd (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. TJ)
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To: Brooklyn Attitude

“This is the same shop where the local town demanded he remove his sign that had an AR15 on it. They threatened to close him down if he didn’t. I guess this is their way of doing it. Nice to have jackbooted thugs at your disposal.”

Separate issue. Both the BATFE and National City are messing with Ares.


22 posted on 03/15/2014 11:45:03 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: mylife

“Also by ATF regulation, completing the receiver is NOT illegal, though it does have restrictions.”

Actually, its by reason of the Federal Firearms Act of 1968. my guess is that absent that legislation, the BATFE would be out rounding up all the “illegal” home made AR-15’s.


23 posted on 03/15/2014 11:47:03 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: vette6387

Ares should leave that liberal cesspool called Kalifornication.


24 posted on 03/15/2014 11:47:19 AM PDT by bicyclerepair (The zombies here elected alcee hastings. TERM LIMITS ... TERM LIMITES)
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To: Olog-hai
First-hand report by one of the store owners as interviewed by Nutnfancy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBVzsfF_wIM
25 posted on 03/15/2014 11:50:19 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: bicyclerepair

“Ares should leave that liberal cesspool called Kalifornication.”

Well potty mouth, does that mean that FR should pack up and leave Fresno too? Why don’t you let us all in on where you live so we can make some crappy, illogical comments about it too. I try to refrain from that practice, but in your case, I’d gladly make an exception. Folks like the owners of Ares are standing and fighting, something you probably wouldn’t have the stomach for. We can all be glad that you were not around during the founding of our country, because my guess is that we would all still be British citizens. Must give you a “thrill down your leg” to trash millions of us decent folks who happen to live in California.


26 posted on 03/15/2014 11:55:28 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: vette6387

“Ares says that they have the money to fight both the ATF and the city.”

When I was running a contracting company I was told by two Pinellas county companies that the IRS seized all of their accounts and told them if they didn’t sign a contract (in this case not to hire contractors) that they’d hold onto the money until the companies bellied-up. So, the ATF or IRS could do the same here. (There is no law forbidding the hiring of contractors. The IRS simply doesn’t like it. This was in the early ‘90’s. They appeared to be targeting companies that made less than 5 million a year.)


27 posted on 03/15/2014 12:00:16 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Olog-hai; All

Geeze........in case anyone had any doubt that our out of control government is trying to disarm the people-here is a story that proves it.


28 posted on 03/15/2014 12:07:49 PM PDT by Pajamajan (Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Don't wait. Do it today.)
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To: vette6387

I like how the unmarked cop cap pulls a U turn in that video and pulls up as the guy was filming out on the street just as he was going into the store.


29 posted on 03/15/2014 1:09:08 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: Rodamala

“I like how the unmarked cop car pulls a U turn in that video and pulls up as the guy was filming out on the street just as he was going into the store.”

Yeah, it’s sure gone way beyond “ my neighbor’s a cop and I am sure he’s there to protect us.” Did you see where the CT cop who threatened the guy who said “he would not comply” now has armed police guard because others have threatened him? The “threatener” get’s “threatened,” so he gets police protection. It’s like here in CA where cops personal automobile registrations are not a matter of public record. So the cops put all their cars on that list and no one ever gets a ticket, and they can roll through FasTrak toll booths, not have a transponder, and never get caught. It’s so bad here that there are more than a million people listed as “LEOs” who get the privilege of being “unlisted.”


30 posted on 03/15/2014 1:51:07 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: vette6387

“Separate issue. Both the BATFE and National City are messing with Ares.”

Seems rather coincidental especially considering the willingness of the justice department to attack people they disagree with.


31 posted on 03/15/2014 3:05:06 PM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: Olog-hai

Why would there have to be a customer list. Couldn’t you just walk in, pay cash without any paperwork?


32 posted on 03/15/2014 3:11:38 PM PDT by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: Olog-hai

I think the ATF got the judge to modify the RO. Either that, or we’re seeing the confiscations begin.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/robert-farago/breaking-more-video-of-atf-ares-armor-raid/


33 posted on 03/16/2014 7:36:16 AM PDT by Nita Nupress ( Use your mind, not your emotions. Refuse to be manipulated by Marxists.)
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