Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Church must reconcile divorce and remarriage, German cardinal says
Catholic Online ^ | 3/12/2014 | By Catholic Online (NEWS CONSORTIUM)

Posted on 03/16/2014 10:57:01 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - Speaking on Vatican Radio, the German theologian said that "I propose a path that goes beyond strictness and leniency."

Finding a medium between these extremes "isn't against morality, it isn't against doctrine, but rather, (is meant) to support a realistic application of doctrine to the current situation of the great majority of people and to contribute to people's happiness," he said.

Prayer, fasting and almsgiving.

Referring to a lengthy talk he gave last month entitled "Gospel of the Family," the talk will be published in March in German and Italian by private publishing houses.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS:
The solution to this ‘problem’ is far better catechism and far better Pre-Canna instruction.

The root of the problem is the very poor leadership of the local bishops and their instructions to the parish level priests as to what is truly relevant to the weekly sermon and religious instruction. Couple that with the abandonment of the Catholic Schools by many of the diocese and we leave exposed more and more Catholic souls to the spiritual death that is the secular schools and their societal teachings.

It is difficult to combat hours of highly secular and sinful teachings a week in a single hour every Sunday. That is IF the ‘Catholic’ actually bothers to show up every Sunday. We already KNOW that fewer than forty percent actually do.

This is NOT a problem with the ordinary Catholic it is the direct result and problem caused by the terrible leadership and almost every level of the Church hierarchy.

Simply put: Actions and decisions have consequences. To get remarried after a divorce that is not subject to annulment is to live in a state of sin. It is committing fornication. It is no less a mortal sin than homosexual sex or bestiality. They are all sins of the flesh. All cut a person off from God’s grace and expose them to the terrible truth of an eternity in Hell without the benefit of being in the presence of God.

“The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts.” St. John Chrysostom

“The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.” St. Athanasius, Council of Nicaea, AD 325

“It must be observed, however, that if the faith were endangered, a subject ought to rebuke his prelate even publicly.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, II

1 posted on 03/16/2014 10:57:01 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town

Go be a Lutheran then, dumbkopf.


2 posted on 03/16/2014 10:59:56 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (If Barack Hussein Obama entertains a thought that he does not verbalize, is it still a lie?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town

My sister married into a Catholic family. It was a miserable marriage as her husband slipped into alcoholism. Then he developed delusions and started writing letters to President Carter rudely instructing him in how to deal with Iran. (I actually wanted to do that myself, but didn’t.)

She divorced him. If you ever had any doubts that divorce can be necessary and isn’t always because people just don’t try, this should put them to rest. There was no way she could have helped him. (Her father-in-law had his son committed.)


3 posted on 03/16/2014 11:03:48 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town

I don’t see anything wrong with your post.

We have to pray for the clergy.


4 posted on 03/16/2014 11:07:27 AM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town
Seems to me that someone wants to serve two masters...

...till death do us part...

I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you...

...till death do us part...

Praise Allah.

</sarc>

5 posted on 03/16/2014 11:07:36 AM PDT by Rodamala
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town
To get remarried after a divorce that is not subject to annulment is to live in a state of sin. It is committing fornication. It is no less a mortal sin than homosexual sex or bestiality. They are all sins of the flesh. All cut a person off from God’s grace and expose them to the terrible truth of an eternity in Hell without the benefit of being in the presence of God.

People that remarry are no more sinners than you are or anyone else. We are all sinners. All sins are "mortal sins" except through faith in Jesus Christ.

6 posted on 03/16/2014 11:08:09 AM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gen.Blather

What’s the problem with getting an annulment. No one in the Church thinks that suffering with a mentally ill spouse is something God wants for anyone.


7 posted on 03/16/2014 11:09:08 AM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

Senseless.


8 posted on 03/16/2014 11:10:35 AM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: stanne

I’m not sure what the law is. From what happened, I suspect a divorce is the legal instrument of the state and an annulment is an instrument of the church. It’s my understanding that afterword he got an annulment.


9 posted on 03/16/2014 11:12:25 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town

The Church already has a process for that, Bishop. It’s called anullment.


10 posted on 03/16/2014 11:19:32 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

“People that remarry are no more sinners than you are or anyone else. We are all sinners. All sins are “mortal sins” except through faith in Jesus Christ.”

No. Not all sins are mortal sins. 1 John 5:16


11 posted on 03/16/2014 11:22:42 AM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

There is venial sin and serious sin which may be mortal sin. Mortal sin is usually only known to God. Serious sin is often apparent to everyone. The in your face homosexuals and people who divorce and remarry as well as abortionists etc. are in a continual state of serious moral wrongdoing and serious sin.

Forgiveness requires sorrow for sin and amendment of life. “Go and sin no more.”

The divorced and remarried must go and sin no more just like the rest of us.


12 posted on 03/16/2014 11:30:10 AM PDT by amihow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

“The wages of sin is death.”


13 posted on 03/16/2014 11:39:02 AM PDT by liege (America 180)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: amihow

Not a good idea for sinners to pick apart various sins and judge which ones are worse than others. Jesus said if you have anger in your heart you have committed murder. Pretty tough stuff. Is someone that re-marries worse than than a murderer? I say leave such judgments up to God.

And by the way in regard to “Go and sin no more” there is no such thing as a mortal man not sinning any more as long as they live on this Earth.


14 posted on 03/16/2014 11:40:01 AM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Gen.Blather

Well, you didn’t mention annulment in your post.

The rules are simple and they are available to all Catholics in the Catechism. And they are very simply stated in the matrimonial vows. no Catholic marriage is any more complicated than what is stated in the vows.

When one of the two does not live up to the vows, an appeal can be made by one or both of them to the church for the church to discover whether there was a problem with the sacrament at its inception, during the wedding.

The Church decides, in it’s wisdom, after careful consideration whether there was a valid sacrament.

The couple is married until that is made final, or until one of them dies.

If they don’t like the rules, they don’t have to get married.

If they are not interested in permanent marriage, then they don’t have to enter into matrimony, which is permanent.

They have choices.

I will never ever understand nor accept that people don’t know te rules.

The couple is in Church of free will. They promise to love and honor.each other until one of them is dead.

There is nothing more simple than that.

Don’t marry an idiot. If you find out they are an idiot after you get married, appeal to the Church to take a look at it and help you out in order to have a chance at a happy marriage in the future.

there is nothing to figure out there.


15 posted on 03/16/2014 11:40:55 AM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

Nonsense.


16 posted on 03/16/2014 11:41:42 AM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

Please think a little deeper. You seem to be missing fine distinctions.

Of course we all sin. Some sins are serious and they may be periodic or ongoing.

If we are caught up in serious ongoing sin we must stop so doing as obedience to Jesus’ words “ Go and sin no more.” Those words were spoken to Mary Magdalen, a person caught up in serious ongoing sin.


17 posted on 03/16/2014 11:49:48 AM PDT by amihow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town

Jesus Christ himself gave clear teaching on marriage and remarriage in Matthew 19. If that isn’t good enough, the German Cardinal will get to explain himself to God on judgment day. Good luck with that.


18 posted on 03/16/2014 11:51:10 AM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: liege

Yes, but as the verse I posted says not all sins are sins onto death. Not all sins are mortal sins.


19 posted on 03/16/2014 11:57:06 AM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Gen.Blather; stanne

Annulments are not easy things to obtain. You have to prove there was no “real” marriage to begin with. If the husband could be proven to have mental issues before the marriage, then perhaps an annulment is possible.

Otherwise ...you take your husband in sickness or in health, til death do us part.


20 posted on 03/16/2014 12:03:33 PM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: EBH

They were married over 10 years. My sister worked hard at it, but was becoming frightened of him. He was getting violent and saying nonsensical things. In addition, she was heading an OSI detachment and when she lead the security team for Roslyn Carter on Carter’s visit to Maine, the Secret Service showed her his letters to the President. We’re talking about two people who carry guns. He was a licensed private investigator.

It was definitely time to go. Luckily, he’d called his father and so worried the elderly man he raced to Maine and had his son committed. I think they’re both fortunate it ended that way.


21 posted on 03/16/2014 12:08:51 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: EBH

Well, yes. So. Either take marriage seriously, or don’t.

Adults get married. Either they’re wise in their choice, or they can tell the Church, they weren’t serious about all those vows during their matrimonial mass.

But there are consequences.

A lot of people who are Catholic think they can tell God there shouldn’t be consequences, this German bishop included, so, join them.

But there are consequences.

I think you mean that when people get married in the Church, they shouldn’t be expected to actually live up to it.

If there are legitimate reasons to annul the marriage, the Church will annul it. That has to be easier? In what way? And why?

People just revel in scolding the Church. Take it somewhere else, leave me out of it. Adults can either be adults and make good decisions or live with the bad ones.


22 posted on 03/16/2014 12:16:58 PM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: stanne

Yes that is what I thought when I read the article and the initial “commentary”.


23 posted on 03/16/2014 12:20:20 PM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: stanne
No one in the Church thinks that suffering with a mentally ill spouse is something God wants for anyone

Well. you're right about that…but that's not what the law of the Church says.

Many, many annulments are given because the tribunal believes "suffering with [fill in the blank] is not what God wants for anyone", but, if each party was NOT mentally ill on the day of the wedding and if they both intended matrimony, and presuming the marriage was not illegal (age, consent, consummation, open to children), then, whether or not God wants the spouse of the now severely mentally ill [or whatever] person to suffer, that's what the law says he or she must do.

24 posted on 03/16/2014 12:29:40 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. H)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

I always expect anti catholic sentiments on this forum. Keep talking no one cares


25 posted on 03/16/2014 12:31:30 PM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
I looked real hard through many different bible versions and nowhere could I find a verse that says, "The wages of certain kinds of sin are death."
26 posted on 03/16/2014 12:40:47 PM PDT by liege (America 180)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: liege

1 John 5:16

The text says what it says. Some sins are sins that lead to death, but clearly not all sins lead to death. The text is plain enough.


27 posted on 03/16/2014 12:43:26 PM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: stanne

I am not anti-Catholic in general having tolerated worshipping as a Catholic for 20 years. :-) Dangerous business when Pharisees start judging degrees of sin.


28 posted on 03/16/2014 12:45:30 PM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: EBH

That’s too literal an application about “until sickness and in health.”
There are all kinds of very complicated marriage relationships. Today, according to one study several married couples live apart in the same house since divorce gets the whole family into the poorhouse.


29 posted on 03/16/2014 12:46:59 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Jim Noble

I’m not talking about Alzheimer’s or like that, I’m talking about mental illness that can be cured but the guy won’t go for help and they’re abusive. Some marriages have suffering but koy can be derived

If there’s abuse and denial with no hope, that’s what I’m talking about


30 posted on 03/16/2014 12:52:41 PM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
I understand the distinction between physical death and spiritual death. Any and all sin leads to spiritual death, hence the need of a saviour to save us from our sins. Our sin separates us from God.

Then there are sins that lead to physical death. Like, for instance, disobeying speed limits on an interstate and dying in a fiery, head on collision.

31 posted on 03/16/2014 12:53:56 PM PDT by liege (America 180)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town

Why not get rid of all those pesky commandments too..they are so restrictive to a progressive society?!


32 posted on 03/16/2014 1:08:24 PM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag ("There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." - Thomas Jeffersony")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

whatever


33 posted on 03/16/2014 1:09:35 PM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Jim from C-Town

No


34 posted on 03/16/2014 1:12:28 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bryan24

And yes, even Moses talked of divorce.


35 posted on 03/16/2014 1:13:42 PM PDT by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: plain talk; Jim from C-Town

**People that remarry are no more sinners than you are or anyone else.**

 

Not what the Bible says:

Gospel Mk 10:1-12

Jesus came into the district of Judea and across the Jordan.
Again crowds gathered around him and, as was his custom,
he again taught them.
The Pharisees approached him and asked,
“Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?”
They were testing him.
He said to them in reply, “What did Moses command you?”
They replied,
“Moses permitted a husband to write a bill of divorce
and dismiss her.”
But Jesus told them,
“Because of the hardness of your hearts
he wrote you this commandment.
But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two shall become one flesh.
So they are no longer two but one flesh.

Therefore what God has joined together,
no human being must separate.”
In the house the disciples again questioned Jesus about this.
He said to them,
“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another
commits adultery against her;
and if she divorces her husband and marries another,
she commits adultery.”


36 posted on 03/16/2014 1:20:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Enough said there!


37 posted on 03/16/2014 1:45:38 PM PDT by cutofyourjib (Repent and pray for one another!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
Matt 5:31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

She in the first case doesn't commit adultery by re-marrying. He in the second case does not commit adultery. In Matthew he who divorces 'except on the ground of sexual immorality' makes her commit adultery and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So why Mark instead of Matthew?

38 posted on 03/16/2014 2:01:44 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Right adultery. Just like you or me commit adultery ever time we look at another woman with lust. Just like you or me commit murder every time we get angry with someone. It goes on and on .. It is all sin and it is a dangerous business when Pharisees play God and start judging how bad one sin is vs another.


39 posted on 03/16/2014 2:40:36 PM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: stanne

I think you need to stuff it pack in the bag for a moment and go reread what I wrote.


40 posted on 03/16/2014 2:47:21 PM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: stanne

Grounds of Invalidity

The validity of a marriage may be challenged if an individual questions whether a quality essential to marriage was absent from consent at the time of the wedding ceremony. Behavior during the courtship and, to a lesser extent, during the time of cohabitation may give some indication that grounds of invalidity exist. Some forms of behavior such as physical abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, deviant sexual behavior, criminal activity, grave irresponsibility, mental illness, and persistent infidelity may indicate that valid marital consent was not exchanged by one or both parties. Beliefs about marriage contrary to Catholic doctrine may also indicate invalid consent. An intention to exclude children, contrary views about the permanence of marriage and fidelity may also indicate that consent was not exchanged validly. Any infringement of a person’s free choice to marry, fraud, error regarding the identity of the spouse, or extreme internal or external pressure to marry may also indicate that consent was not exchanged validly.

http://dioceseofcleveland.org/tribunal/index.php/petitioner-information/17-grounds-of-invalidity


41 posted on 03/16/2014 2:59:07 PM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: stanne

Could you lay off the personal comments ? Plain Talk is expressing his/her views. There’s been no “Catholic bashing”. YOU’VE been doing the bashing.

You’re certainly within your rights to disagree. But it doesn’t have to be impolite.


42 posted on 03/17/2014 2:22:14 PM PDT by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: jimt

I’ve not bashed anyone nor have I made personal attacks. This thread is days old

All catholic bashing threads last days, none else do.

Go pick on someone else. The militant gays have been doing satans work spitting on Catholics all day this st Patrick’s day. Your kicking a hurt creature

Get off it


43 posted on 03/17/2014 2:50:55 PM PDT by stanne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson