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Candidly speaking: Putin, Ukraine and the Jews
The Jerusalem Post ^ | 3-16-2014 | ISI LEIBLER

Posted on 03/17/2014 12:22:52 AM PDT by MarMema

The international crisis created by Putin’s military incursion into Crimea has also served to highlight, again, Russia’s relationship to the Jews. The Russian president has included radical nationalism and anti-Semitism in the Ukraine as major justifications for his intervention.

I have personal experience of the feral anti-Semitism which pervaded the region from my direct dealings with senior Soviet authorities in the campaign to free Soviet Jewry, which was the central focus of my public life for many years. I have no doubt that both in the Ukraine and Russia, a substantial proportion of the population continues to hate and fear Jews.

Yet today it is almost surreal, particularly when recalling the major contribution of Soviet Jewish dissidents toward the downfall of the Evil Empire, to observe President Vladimir Putin, the authoritarian former KGB official, displaying overt friendship toward Jews and Israel.

We are under no misapprehensions. Neither Russia nor Ukraine are democracies. But on a relative scale, the corruption and xenophobia currently dominating Ukraine is more extreme than in Russia, where Putin has suppressed anti-Semites and repeatedly made friendly gestures to the Jewish community. For example, he provided $50 million of state funding for a Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center in Moscow, in addition to which he symbolically personally donated a month’s salary.

In this he displayed total indifference to the powerful anti-Semitic elements in Russian society.

Putin is a nationalist and his primary motivation is to restore Russia as a global power. This is what propelled him to intervene in Georgia and now in Ukraine in reaction to what he regards as a threatening NATO intrusion in his sphere of influence and on his borders. Russians compare this reaction to Kennedy’s 1962 response to Khrushchev’s effort to introduce missiles into Cuba.

Ukraine, like Russia, has a long history of violent anti-Semitism, that dates back to the 1648 Khmelnitsky pogroms and continues through the Beiliss blood libel – still an issue of contention among many Ukrainians – and the Russian Civil War, when tens of thousands of Jews were butchered.

The existing Ukrainian Jewish community, estimated to be around 200,000, has good reason to be fearful. Since gaining independence in 1991, Ukraine has spawned thriving xenophobic rightwing parties which are alleged to have spearheaded the revolt against the corrupt President Viktor Yanukovich. Although only gaining 10 percent electoral support, these are genuine neo-Nazis who employ swastika symbols and are openly anti-Semitic. Successive Ukrainian governments have ignored or condoned their extremist activities and made no effort to prosecute them.

Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of Svoboda, the largest right-wing extremist nationalist faction, which holds 37 seats in the government, has called for the liberation of Ukraine from the “Muscovite-Jewish Mafia” and refers to his opponents as “Zhids.”

His deputy, Yuri Mykhalchyshyn, founded a think tank initially called “The Joseph Goebbels Political Research Center.” The party activists have circulated translations of Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. They revere Stepan Bandera, a onetime ally of Nazi Germany whose troops murdered tens of thousands of Jews. Their anti-Semitism is overt and has led to the desecration of synagogues and brutal acts of violence against Jews.

In an attempt to portray himself as a moderate, Dmitry Yarosh, leader of the ultra-nationalist leader “Right Sector,” currently deputy director of Ukraine’s Security Council and a candidate for president, has sought to dissociate himself from anti-Semitism. He even opened up a hotline with Israel’s ambassador in Kiev. But Yarosh, a renowned expert on firebombs, made it clear that he has no intention of disbanding his black-garbed paramilitary units.

Not surprisingly, President Putin is exploiting these Ukrainian fascist and anti-Semitic groups in order to discredit the new government.

However, a number of Ukrainian Jewish oligarchs and the Jewish umbrella body known as the Vaad insisted that anti-Semitism posed no threat and called Putin a liar.

One of the “chief rabbis”, Rabbi Yaacov Bleich, a Karliner-Stoliner Hassid from New York, even accused the Russians of dressing up as Ukrainian nationalists and engaging in anti-Semitic provocations.

In what may come back to haunt him, Bleich also downplayed the influence of the anti-Semitic parties in the new government, saying that he had received assurances that the safety of Jews will be protected.

Jews who engage in the politics of an unstable country in which successive governments condoned or ignored nationalist anti-Semitic groups are playing with fire. Chabad Chief Rabbi Reuven Azman gave sound advice when he urged his community to leave the country, although after subsequent pressure he was obliged to tell the media that he was “unaware of any new anti-Semitic acts since the downfall of Yanukovich.”

Despite pressure from the Obama administration to condemn Russia, Israel has acted in its own interests and avoided taking any position.

Long before the confrontations with the US, Putin indicated that he respected Jews and made great efforts to display friendship to Israel. He has already paid two state visits to Jerusalem, the most recent immediately after his reelection in June 2012. He repeatedly expressed pride that former Russians make up Israel’s largest immigrant group.

He visited the Kotel – the Western Wall, even donning a yarmulke, which would have made his Bolshevik predecessors turn in their graves. He seemed utterly indifferent to the fact that this outraged Islamic groups in Israel and abroad.

This does not mean that Putin is a philo-Semite.

He is above all, a Russian nationalist. Nor is Putin an ally. He has provided lethal weapons to those seeking our destruction and is considered an ally of both Iran and Syria.

Yet he is also far more of a realist than US President Barack Obama and must be under no illusions about the threat Islamic fundamentalism represents to his country. He must also be concerned about the repercussions facing Russia should Iran become a nuclear power.

As a result of his disastrous foreign policy, President Obama has now paved the way for Russia to reassert itself into a possibly more dominant position in the Middle East than at the height of the Cold War. US support for the Muslim Brotherhood even alienated Egypt, which now seems to have also joined the Russian camp. Unlike Obama, whose partners no longer feel he can be relied upon, Putin has demonstrated his ability to stand up and deliver on behalf of his allies.

Yet, despite Russia’s current support for Iran and Syria, our leaders communicate with Putin on a regular basis and seek to convince him that radical Islamic countries also pose a threat to Russia.

Thirty years ago, I would never have visualized myself supporting closer relations between Israel and Russia. We remain overwhelmingly dependent on the support of the United States and above all cherish our alliance and shared democratic values with the American people. Yet we are also obliged to develop relations with authoritarian, undemocratic countries like China. It is thus clearly in our national interest, without being under any idealistic illusions, to nurture ties with a Russia whose leader seems to have dramatically broken with centuries of Tsarist and Bolshevik anti-Semitism and now displays friendship towards the Jewish people.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Israel; Russia
KEYWORDS: crimea; israel; putin; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; yuliatymoshenko
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1 posted on 03/17/2014 12:22:52 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema

what a mess


2 posted on 03/17/2014 12:31:23 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: MarMema; All

Inncreeeibleee!


3 posted on 03/17/2014 12:31:26 AM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Cold Heat
US support for the Muslim Brotherhood even alienated Egypt, which now seems to have also joined the Russian camp. Unlike Obama, whose partners no longer feel he can be relied upon, Putin has demonstrated his ability to stand up and deliver on behalf of his allies.

It's not just me that thinks Putin outclasses Obama.

4 posted on 03/17/2014 12:35:13 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: yldstrk

A mess we really need to stay out of, lest our half baked “leader” take us into the abyss.


5 posted on 03/17/2014 12:46:56 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: MarMema

Their comparison between Obama and Putin are correct....yet Putin always needs to be seen with one eye very wide open....he can turn on a dime when to his advantage in doing so...and does.

The thing that’s interesting is he usually tells exactly what he’s going to do by what he states....if people listen close enough.

Long time Putin made it very clear concerning Ukraine and what he would do if the US made any attempts to interfer in his area of influence there.

So the US and Europe knew well this would happen in how Putin has responded......same with Syria...they knew ahead.

But IMO concerning the Jewish people...I wouldn’t trust him to remain “friendly” ...he can change those stripes in a heartbeat.


6 posted on 03/17/2014 1:05:22 AM PDT by caww
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To: MarMema

I am a Jew from the Ukraine. I don’t live there anymore, but I can’t imagine things would have changed that much. Ukrainian nationalists tend to be very antisemitic. Not all of them, of course. I am sure, there are many decent people. And I have absolutely nothing against ethnic Ukrainians. But there is a strain of virulent, murderous antisemitism within the nationalist block that is very dangerous. I believe it is a big mistake that legitimate Ukrainian nationalists have not disavowed this movement within their movement. According to an analysis I have read, members of this fascist faction from the parties of Freedom and Right Block have taken many key positions within the provisional government of Ukraine. I am scared of them. They are up to no good. I saw youtube videos where they have been marching and chanting: “Bandera will come back and bring back order.” Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist and is a Ukrainian national hero. To many Ukrainian people, he represents the ideal of Ukrainian liberation. But it is also true that his people have been involved into very bloody raids against ethnic Russians and Jews. As a Jew, I shudder when I hear the name “Bandera.”


7 posted on 03/17/2014 1:16:17 AM PDT by Mimi3
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To: caww

It’s not so much about trusting Putin, in my opinion, it’s about who do you choose as a more immediate danger to Jews, the Russian government, represented by Putin, or the new Ukrainian government. In this situation, my money is on Putin.


8 posted on 03/17/2014 1:19:43 AM PDT by Mimi3
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To: MarMema

“I have no doubt that both in the Ukraine and Russia, a substantial proportion of the population continues to hate and fear Jews.”

Yes, this is true. To qualify this statement, I would say, however, that percentage-wise, there are more antisemites in Ukraine, compared to Russia. The Ukrainian population is, relatively speaking, more antisemitic that the Russian population.

“We are under no misapprehensions. Neither Russia nor Ukraine are democracies. But on a relative scale, the corruption and xenophobia currently dominating Ukraine is more extreme than in Russia”

True. I agree with the author.


9 posted on 03/17/2014 1:25:58 AM PDT by Mimi3
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To: Mimi3; PGR88
According to an analysis I have read, members of this fascist faction from the parties of Freedom and Right Block have taken many key positions within the provisional government of Ukraine.

PGR, I posted this after you asked "who are they?" on another thread. I realized I did not really know either, so on pursuing that I found this and posted it.

Anyway see the posts above from Mimi3.

10 posted on 03/17/2014 1:35:46 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: Mimi3

Thanks so much for your additions to this thread!!


11 posted on 03/17/2014 1:37:03 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: MarMema

Ukrainian anti-semites don’t have nukes and threaten to use them against the U.S. Putin and his henchmen have, only yesterday, and can.

There is a difference. My grandmother came from Lemberg/Lvov so I have some history in the game, but the Russian bear has bigger and better armed “teeth” than does the Ukrainian rights extremists.

Some of us tried so hard for decades to foster better internal relationships between the Ukrainian Christians and their Jewish countrymen, and had some decent successes.

Now Putin has poisoned the waters for all involved and the Jews will lose, as usual, since they are not armed (much like the Christians in Syria are backing Assad because the Al Qaeda/Islamic jihadists are worse.)

If the US and Europe had shown some guts much earlier on, both in Libya, Egypt, and Syria, as well as the Ukraine, I doubt that Putin would have played the hand he did, and did so well.

We have no foreign policy leadership in the US, only cowards, commies, and cronies. Putin knows this and is rubbing Obama’s nose in the shitpile of European history. And all Obama can say to Michele is “Road Trip.”


12 posted on 03/17/2014 2:06:03 AM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
We have no foreign policy leadership in the US, only cowards, commies, and cronies.

I would add idiots to your list. And this terrifies me.

13 posted on 03/17/2014 2:09:19 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: MarMema; Mimi3

Here is a post from some days ago about the nationalistic parties in Ukraine.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3127884/posts?page=48#48

In addition to those links here is two from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26468720

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY


14 posted on 03/17/2014 2:29:26 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: MarMema
"A mess we really need to stay out of, lest our half baked “leader” take us into the abyss."

And as Obama's various domestic disasters, especially Obamacare, drag him down, he must be tempted to engage in some foreign adventurism to cover for his failures; plus he could weaken the US further by getting us in an economic or military fight over Ukraine.

15 posted on 03/17/2014 3:05:25 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Truth29

After he cut back the military of course.


16 posted on 03/17/2014 3:19:18 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Thanks, I am not liking it. Gives new meaning to the Crimeans who said they wanted nothing to do with the new Ukraine leadership.


17 posted on 03/17/2014 3:22:13 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: Paul R.

pingski


18 posted on 03/17/2014 3:28:11 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: Mimi3
“I am scared of them. They are up to no good.”

Yeah, evil they, evil ! That's why you came here after 6 months without a single post, at 4 AM ET, to play on Kremlin's “they are old fascists” old (going back to pre-WW2 times) tune. Thank you.

19 posted on 03/17/2014 3:29:10 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

FSB disinformation department at work, all over the place. You guys are a sitting duck on this one.


20 posted on 03/17/2014 3:32:16 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: MarMema
No, this is not good at all. Basically the EU and the US have run a policy that unintentionally made them allies with the type of people they would never accept in their own countries. But our politicians have painted themselves into a corner and are unable to back down. I don't think Svoboda will lose votes in the upcoming election, rather the converse. The present situation is helpful to extremists on both sides.

On the Crimean election I found an article I think is both balanced and contains some interesting facts:

http://www.thenation.com/article/178848/endgame-crimea

Nobody talks about the fact that initially “when, on February 27, the Crimean parliament first decided to hold a referendum on expanding regional autonomy, it was exclusively within the context of remaining in Ukraine. It was Kiev’s ham-fisted attempt to replace key regional officials after agreeing not to do so that led to the inclusion of a second option to join Russia. Leaving Ukraine was placed on the table because the threat of force against Crimea was not taken off the table.”

Also, the author's reference to the polls are supported by the latest poll in Crimea made by the German institute Gfk which showed 70% of the polled was going to vote for returning Crimea to Russia.

It would be highly improbable if there hadn't been some vote stuffing and the legality of the referendum can be questioned given the Russian military presence but there is very little reason to doubt that the majority of the Crimeans wish to secede from Ukraine.

21 posted on 03/17/2014 3:43:32 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: Grzegorz 246
Well there is considerable info to indicate, albeit BBC and this Jerusalem Post post, that Mimi is correct.

How nice of you to be so kind to her.

22 posted on 03/17/2014 3:48:02 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Thanks, another good read...they’re kinda starting to sound like thugs.


23 posted on 03/17/2014 3:51:07 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: MarMema

It will be hard to find any “good guys” in this plot.


24 posted on 03/17/2014 3:54:43 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: MarMema
“How nice of you to be so kind to her. “

Isn't it all due to my fascism and anti-semitism ?

25 posted on 03/17/2014 4:09:43 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Grzegorz 246
Sometimes Russophobia overcomes people. I have many friends in Georgia who are standing by the new regime in Ukraine.

Time will tell.

26 posted on 03/17/2014 4:15:05 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: MarMema
“Russophobia”

Mmm another magic word...

27 posted on 03/17/2014 4:31:18 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: MarMema
The existing Ukrainian Jewish community, estimated to be around 200,000, has good reason to be fearful. Since gaining independence in 1991, Ukraine has spawned thriving xenophobic rightwing parties which are alleged to have spearheaded the revolt against the corrupt President Viktor Yanukovich. Although only gaining 10 percent electoral support, these are genuine neo-Nazis who employ swastika symbols and are openly anti-Semitic. Successive Ukrainian governments have ignored or condoned their extremist activities and made no effort to prosecute them.

Hey, at least we're not on Al Qaeda's side this time.

28 posted on 03/17/2014 4:59:21 AM PDT by McGruff (They say the first casualty of war is truth)
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To: Grzegorz 246
Well lookie here, the new Ukraine government...

The "Volyn Remembers" campaign run by the SNPU Volyn branch was a landmark event in 2003. The campaign was aimed at re-establishing the historical truth in the Ukraine-Poland conflict, restoring the dignity of Ukrainians and exposing the distortions by Polish chauvinists in their presentation of the 1-43 events in Volyn.

29 posted on 03/17/2014 5:12:01 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

30 posted on 03/17/2014 5:13:04 AM PDT by SJackson (the Democrats take back control, we don’t make (this) kind of naked power grab, J Biden)
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To: Grzegorz 246

From the Russian propaganda:
SIMFEROPOL, March 16, 14:07 /ITAR-TASS/. The international observers monitoring Crimea’s referendum have identified no violations so far, Tadeusz Piskorski, the chief of the European observers’ mission in Crimea, has told ITAR-TASS. Piskorski, a member of the Polish parliament also noted a large turnout, adding that Crimean Tatars were very active

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/723752?utm_medium=rss20

Who is this Tadeusz Piskorski? I could not find him here

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pos%C5%82owie_na_Sejm_Rzeczypospolitej_Polskiej_VII_kadencji


31 posted on 03/17/2014 5:21:46 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: MarMema

Do you seriously believe I don’t know about it ?


32 posted on 03/17/2014 5:23:19 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: MarMema

If we want to know what Ukrainian “patriots” are like, they have shown us:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-mnRuckQkU

Some of the individuals in this video now hold posts in the Kiev regime.

Neo-Cons using Neo-Nazis to hurt Russia (and Europe and us and the entire world in the process).


33 posted on 03/17/2014 5:28:56 AM PDT by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: Grzegorz 246
Take Oleh Tyahnybok, the rather rugged leader of Svboda, which dominates the Western-most provinces of Ukraine. Western media has described him as one of the three most important opposition leaders and he's met foreign dignitaries like John McCain. He is also a potentially dangerous man. In one infamous speech in 2004, Tyahinybok lashed out at the "Moscow-Jewish mafia" and the "kikes". In 2005, he wrote an open letter to the President asking him to halt the "criminal activities" of "organised Jewry".

Do you seriously think these people are worth supporting?

34 posted on 03/17/2014 5:29:08 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: AdmSmith
They got his first name wrong. A clown who was briefly (2005-2007) in Sejm as a member of Lepper’s party. Now on FSB’s payroll.
35 posted on 03/17/2014 5:29:16 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
I will watch that when I get home from work shortly. Thank you.

In the meantime, Its policies include taking farm land into national ownership and giving to people to hold on a "hereditry basis". No one who was not born in Ukraine can become a citizen; outsiders cannot adopt Ukrainian children. In 2005, one of the party's deputies founding the Joseph Goebbels Political Research Center. It was later renamed after a German conservative revolutionary. That particular deputy described the Holocaust as "a bright episode in European civilisation" which "strongly warms the hearts of the Palestinian population."

"Some of Svboda supporters are people who believe that the German invasion of Ukraine in the 1940s was not an occupation but a liberation from "Jewish Bolshevism". Needless to say, they also don't like gay people."

Just wow. And same to all the people here who have been critical of my wanting to stay out of it. Some want to take on Putin over this. These people met with McCain and sent him back to say they need our help to fend off Moscow!

36 posted on 03/17/2014 5:33:27 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: Grzegorz 246

I seriously believed you would know about it. Please share.


37 posted on 03/17/2014 5:34:10 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: All

Actually they would probably get along quite well with the Croats. Maybe they should seek help from them.


38 posted on 03/17/2014 5:37:40 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: All
It gets better yet. Putin is gonna take him down...

Russia has initiated a criminal case against the leader of Ukraine's opposition Svoboda party Oleh Tyagnibok for forming an armed group with intent to commit assault, according to Interfax news agency. Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin told Interfax that Tyagnibok supported Chechen separatists in the 1990s and is now being prosecuted for organising an armed gang.

39 posted on 03/17/2014 5:41:29 AM PDT by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
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To: MarMema
Perhaps you could post a list of the people that are observers at Crimea.

I have so far only found one and his name was not correct.

40 posted on 03/17/2014 5:50:39 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: Grzegorz 246

Yes, http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateusz_Piskorski is vice president of Samoobrona http://www.samoobrona.org.pl/pages/02.Partia/00.Aktualnosci/index.php?document=/137.html

and his connections to SVR http://www.wprost.pl/ar/?O=111510


41 posted on 03/17/2014 5:55:29 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: MarMema
Ukrainian Jewish leaders wrote an open letter to Putin saying they don't want Russian forces there.

http://maidantranslations.com/2014/03/05/open-letter-of-ukrainian-jews-to-russian-federation-president-vladimir-putin/

42 posted on 03/17/2014 6:04:47 AM PDT by Krosan
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To: AdmSmith

One name: “Enrique Ravello, Spanish MP/far-right Catalan nat’list in favor of Catalan referendum blocked by Spanish parliament.”


43 posted on 03/17/2014 6:06:14 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: ScaniaBoy
http://unitatcontraelfeixisme.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/manifiesto-we-dont-want-fascists-in-clot-barcelona-or-anywhere-shut-down-the-nazi-social-centre/

Now we have two names, both are extreme nationalists, and some would give them other labels. What about the new persons in charge of the Crimea administrations. Do we have a background?

44 posted on 03/17/2014 6:18:37 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

Sergey Aksyonov - and as I wrote above you will not find any good guys here. The whle situation is made for extremists to climb to the top.


45 posted on 03/17/2014 6:28:01 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: Mimi3
Please explain people that Holocaust started in Ukraine - much more gruesome than later, one in Auschwitz...
46 posted on 03/17/2014 8:21:35 AM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: MarMema

Both sides employ antisemitism. Plenty of Russian nationalists in the Duma are antisemites, including those in Putin’s party. And while Putin has no problem with loyal Jews in Russia, he is the protector of Iran’s nuclear program. On the other side, there are people waving the banner of the 14th Waffen SS Galician and of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, which is mortifying.


47 posted on 03/17/2014 10:58:42 AM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: Grzegorz 246

Hmm... I’ve been here for a while. I read threads but often don’t have much to add. In this case, I happen to have first hand experience, and I was eager to confirm the writer’s point of view. I know exactly what he is talking about. I have experienced a lot of antisemitism in Ukraine. Do you think that the author is a man of Putin, too? What is your knowledge about antisemitism in Ukraine? And do you think that if one is skeptical about the Ukrainian nationalist parties opne must automatically be Putin’s mouthpiece?


48 posted on 03/17/2014 12:03:21 PM PDT by Mimi3
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To: kronos77

Ukraine didn’t have concentration camps, as far as I know. It was too far east. People got killed with guns. Jewish relatives on my mother’s side were killed (as Jews) in Uman and Kiev by the German army and local Ukrainian policemen.

I have nothing against Ukrainian people whatsoever. There are good and bad people among all people. My point is simply that the author of the article is correct. There are some very unpleasant characters mixed in the nationalist movement. They are much more openly fascistic and intolerant than people currently in the Russian government even if they are unsavory for other reasons. I am sure they have plenty of Russian fascists, as well. But they are not in the government. That’s the difference.


49 posted on 03/17/2014 12:14:34 PM PDT by Mimi3
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To: Mimi3

Yep, in the East the SOP was to shoot the local Jewish populations....it was in too forward an area to afford the manpower it took to build the kind of installations they built in Poland.


50 posted on 03/17/2014 12:19:56 PM PDT by dfwgator
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