Skip to comments.Affirmative action proposal for California universities runs into Asian-American opposition
Posted on 03/17/2014 1:03:39 AM PDT by blueplum
SACRAMENTO -- A legislative push to permit California's public universities to once again consider race and ethnicity in admissions appears to be on life support after an intense backlash from Asian-American parents who fear it will make it harder for their children to get into good schools. :snip: A planned referendum sailed through the state Senate in January without fanfare on a party-line vote, but three Asian-American Democrats who initially backed the measure are now calling for it to be "tabled" before the state Assembly has a chance to vote on it -- a highly unusual move. And it seems unlikely to get the two-thirds majority in the Assembly without the support of the five Asian-Americans in the lower house.
Over the last several weeks, the three senators who have had second thoughts about the referendum -- Leland Yee, D-San Francisco; Ted Lieu, D-Torrance; and Carol Liu, D- La Cañada/Flintridge...
(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...
“Affirmative action” is just a leftist euphemism for “race-based quotas.”
...But Der said any debate that pits ethnic minorities against one another serves no one.
...Eight Assembly Democrats belong to the Asian and Pacific Islander Legislative Caucus, and if two or more of them vote "no," the bill will fail.
Asian minorities have demonstrated that there are smart enough to have early on learned the essential truth of Nathan Bedford's Maxim and so organized along ethnic lines to gain political power for their own ethnic group.
In the event it seems they were well advised do so because the article notes that after the passage of proposition 209 by referendum vote, "admission offers to black students have plunged 49 percent at UC Berkeley and 16 percent at UCLA "
Black pressure groups, long since convinced of Nathan Bedford's Maxim if unenthusiastic about its namesake, have agitated to restore affirmative action.
What is a social engineer to do?
Whatever he does he ought to do it quickly before he learns that in the next California legislative system the newly formed Caucasian Caucus demands a seat at the table.
In the meantime, he can proclaim from the housetops that "diversity is our strength."
See below from another thread:
“Affirmative action is a de facto admission by protected groups and the government that administers them that they are in fact genetically inferior. Blacks, Hispanics, and females all seem to admit to their inferiority (wanting it enshrined in law), and are laughing all the way to the bank. While destruction of the white males may be their intent, in the end they always come crawling back looking for someone who actually has knowledge and ability; corporations and governments in the end rely on the white guys when the stuff hits the fan, and the tokens are just an added financial burden (like the cost of an additional gubmint regulation).”
In the end, affirmative action degrees, certificates, etc. aren’t worth the paper they’re written on; employers know it, so the natural next step is to force employers to hire these incompetent, semi-literate tokens...
Affirmative Action: America destroying itself in order to build the Negro’s self esteem.
Come on, this is pure comedy. These politicians get their lifeblood by blaming whites. With no whites they really don’t get along nor is there much interest in a common good or running a state.
I’m truly amazed it took Asian Americans this long to figure this out, considering how smart they are.
The UC system has been screwing them over for many, many years.
Being nonwhite doesn’t mean affirmative action won’t screw you over, too.
Asians actually knew that but they always had viable options in order not to rock the boat. If an Asian did not get into the top schools in science they could still get a good tech job after grad from a second tier school. The recession changed all that. Tech degrees is no longer an easy entry into the tech workforce. When tech employment rate from grads from top schools is only 60 percent and avg schools is 40 percent, suddenly getting into top tier school is no longer an option, it is a major difference from an employment viewpoint. Now tolerating AA came back to bite the typical Asian parent. One thing good about Depressions and Recessions, people start to care about their money and employment opportunities.
Seems like Obama’s Peeps need some Tiger Moms.
The subtext behind all these articles is that individuals being hurt by AA is only important if they are minority individuals. Which is really sad to have just accepted as a matter of fact.
Imagine that standing up for their children. When will whites do the same?
Except the majority of colleges now have lower entry standards for men than for women.
(Not the very elite colleges, as there are still more men scoring at the very top in math.)
Oh, and some STEM degrees have broader admission for women than for men, too. But even there and at the very elite schools, the difference between women and racial or ethnic affirmative action groups is that the majority of women still qualified without the boost—whereas the majority of the favored ethnic groups usually did not.
>>Affirmative action is just a leftist euphemism for race-based quotas.<<
Only the races where hard work is not a cultural value.
Lefty Asians versus the left. Nobody to cheer for here.
This business of dividing up the country into ethnic groups will frankly destroy us. Work towards a common culture and the idea of a common good.
Blame whitey is not going to work in California when like 15 % of under 20 is white.
And notice the Chinese complaint is about THEM, not about any idea of fairness. It’s still the same basic idea of ethnic separatism.
“admission offers to black students have plunged 49 percent at UC Berkeley and 16 percent at UCLA
Im truly amazed it took Asian Americans this long to figure this out, considering how smart they are.
You are correct and there is only one race that gets those advantages, along with a lifetime supply of race cards to play.
So if you're not a white male you're a semi-literate token? LOL
Kearney, you must be hitting the suds a little early on St. Patrick's Day.
You do know that they had to lower the standards for males in colleges because the women applicants had higher scores and grades. But don't let facts interfere with your world view. ;-) BTW Happy St. Paddy's Day.
Girls have higher grades but lower SAT scores. Grades measure consistency, whereas SAT scores measure innate talent.
Why are so many Asian-Americans Democrats anyway?
Asians are a “smart” minority,affirmative action is for “dumb” minorities.
Not exactly correct. The averages are about the same. IIRC there are differences in spread and there are more high end scores in the quantitative section for males. The test alleges that it only measures scholastic aptitude.
Re consistency, that’s a very valuable trait. I’d rather hire an engineer who is consistent with a 700 SAT-Q than an inconsistent one with straight 800’s.
“Except the majority of colleges now have lower entry standards for men than for women.”
That is absurd, as it would never be tolerated (unless those men are “preferred minorities”). It is no accident that 59% of college classes are female; it is designed that way.
“the difference between women and racial or ethnic affirmative action groups is that the majority of women still qualified without the boostwhereas the majority of the favored ethnic groups usually did not.”
If that was true gender wouldn’t be included on the application (and by further extension we wouldn’t have “minority and WOMEN owned businesses”).
When they dump white women off the gravy train, buy popcorn
“So if you’re not a white male you’re a semi-literate token?”
Usually, because of the design of affirmative action. For example, while members of “protected classes” may qualify as a lieutenant in the army, affirmative action takes those candidates and makes them captains. Those that would qualify as captains are pushed up to major, etc.. The same occurs in higher education: candidates that would be qualified for a county college are admitted to state schools, work that would qualify for a bachelor’s degree is taken for a master’s degree, and so on. The problem is that the “beneficiary” is always out of their league, surrounded by better-qualified & trained people, and in most cases, they know it. It is a recipe for failure, and results in real dishonesty in appraising such workers/students.
In college I watched “preferred students” who would have never graduated high school in a “white” system spend a semester looking confused in a state college before dropping out; nobody did them any favors (whatever the intentions/goals were).
Depends on the ethnic group. East Indians skew the numbers. They tend to be hostile to and fearful of Christians.
Blacks are pushing for it, and Hispanics will soon have the political power to make it so.
“This business of dividing up the country into ethnic groups will frankly destroy us.”
The America of the 1980s is already completely destroyed; few vestiges of it remain. The original meritocracy is gone, along with opportunity.
“Work towards a common culture and the idea of a common good.”
Anyone even proposing a common culture is viewed as hateful and narrow-minded, and the definition of a “common good” has been so diluted as to require inclusion of every godless act the left can imagine.
That is the very sad part about affirmative action. Promising students are admitted to schools for which they are not prepared. They get beaten down by the system and wash out. It’s a shame because some of these students end up feeling like losers for the rest of their lives when, in fact, they were among the best.
The “Melting Pot” is dead, replaced with the “Tossed Salad” and Balkanization.
“You are correct and there is only one race that gets those advantages, along with a lifetime supply of race cards to play.”
At least two races (black, Hispanic) and one gender.
“That is the very sad part about affirmative action. Promising students are admitted to schools for which they are not prepared. They get beaten down by the system and wash out. Its a shame because some of these students end up feeling like losers for the rest of their lives when, in fact, they were among the best.”
I guess that depends on your point of view; to me the sad part is that a better-qualified student (who wasn’t a “preferred minority/woman”) lost that opportunity that in the end was squandered for political correctness. Nobody can dispute that these policies are de facto admissions by the leftist government that in fact these “protected groups” can’t compete on a level playing field.
“The Melting Pot is dead, replaced with the Tossed Salad and Balkanization.”
And it was deliberately done by enemies of this country with a divide-and-conquer strategy to remove power from a WASP majority and place it in the hands of a Bolshevik minority.
Nope—you’re way behind the times. Schools are deathly afraid of hitting too high a female to male ratio—since both men and women then start to avoid it—so they end up favoring men in order to get closer to a balanced ratio.
Other than the top schools, they simply don’t have as many qualified men applying, so they drop the standards on grades and tests.
“Nopeyoure way behind the times. Schools are deathly afraid of hitting too high a female to male ratiosince both men and women then start to avoid itso they end up favoring men in order to get closer to a balanced ratio. Other than the top schools, they simply dont have as many qualified men applying, so they drop the standards on grades and tests.”
I’ve followed this issue closely; they just don’t want the student bodies to reach 60% female (59% is fine with them).
60% is the turning point of pretty much no return in being an attractive school to prospective students. But to keep from hitting that dread point they accept boys with lesser records than girls.
You need to follow it a little more closely.
I dispute the contention that boys are less qualified; I’ve seen the gender breakdown in higher-level classes, and many of the replacement Americans’ cultures wouldn’t even bother sending a female to college (they’re the ones reproducing). Now they just want to move that 59% up to the graduate and doctorate level, since there really is no shortage of American males that can make the cut.
As I said before, there still tends to be a difference in the boys’ favor in STEM programs and in acceptance to the very elite schools—there are more boys at the very top of the SAT’s.
The replacement Americans with cultures that discriminate against girls academically are clustered at the lower end of the bell curve anyway. (And again, the racial differences in scores are very large, the male-female differences quite small.)
I’m not for affirmative action of any type. But there is indeed a reverse affirmative action going on at the bulk of American colleges to simply get a more equal sex ratio in their student bodies.
I actually don’t know how I feel about that. I can understand colleges wanting more equal representation for social reasons, but that’s not really any different than other affirmative-action quotas—and it’s not really fair to any individuals who may lose out because of it.
“The replacement Americans with cultures that discriminate against girls academically are clustered at the lower end of the bell curve anyway.”
Not really, the Asians and Middle Eastern students aren’t at the lower end.
“But there is indeed a reverse affirmative action going on at the bulk of American colleges to simply get a more equal sex ratio in their student bodies.”
Then I guess the people I know who are forced to pee away time in community colleges for their sons, while their non-achieving daughters go straight into state schools, have it all wrong.
“I can understand colleges wanting more equal representation for social reasons,”
I can’t; I thought they were schools, not hook-ups.
Sorry, Kearny, it's true. Forget about Stanford and MIT. Forget too about Rensselaer and even the NJIT's of the world where the girls have an easier time getting in. Think about the vast majority of schools like Catholic U and Seton Hall. The male/female ratios at those schools were getting so skewed that it not only became easier to get in if you were a boy, it was easier to get merit scholarship money. It may be the only time in a white male's life he's at a statistical advantage, but the advantage is undeniably there.
Catholic schools have no place in this discussion; they will accept anyone who can pay at this point (and were always able to determine their admissions policies instead of having judges determine them). More than twenty years ago when I was looking at colleges, people only went to private schools (temporarily) when they were rejected by state schools; after a year they were in the state schools as well. Nobody is making a real effort (outside of propaganda ploys) to get white males in schools; you can believe the “officials” or your lying eyes...
Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants in the U.S. tend to have and foster highly educated women.
Probably they do, or they are anecdotal exceptions.
Even though they are nonprofits, most colleges are businesses and they thrive on customer demand.
“Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants in the U.S. tend to have and foster highly educated women.”
The Muslim ones certainly don’t; those students would approach me and ask if I knew any girls who would go to their cultural nights because there were so few females from their countries in school.
“Even though they are nonprofits, most colleges are businesses and they thrive on customer demand.”
Sure; here in NJ the state colleges would rather give the seat to a foreigner at a higher price than an American student.
In the late 80s I spoke in our management meeting in Sacramento and said that we had 12% Asian employees and the community was 5%. So according to our affirmative goals, we have to get rid of and stop hiring asians. You could have heard a pin drop. I was considered a neandrethal.
We also had a real african american. Born to Italian family in Ethiopia. He was the only african born person in the building. He used to make their blood boil.
When I went back to my office, my secretary said, “That’s why we oppose affirmative action.”
Yes, and you are talking about foreign students studying in the U.S., which is rather different from regular immigrants. For men to outnumber women in immigration, and especially initial immigration, is not unusual.
ME immigrants in the US tend to be highly educated, with an emphasis on education extended to their women as well.
“Figure 2 shows that in contrast to immigrants in general, those from the Middle East tend to be more educated than natives. While a very large share of immigrants overall are high school dropouts, those from the Middle East are only slightly more likely to be dropouts than natives. At the higher end of the education distribution, almost 49 percent of Middle Eastern immigrants have at least a bachelor’s degree compared to only 28 percent of natives; and at the highest end, 21 percent have a graduate or professional degree, more than twice the percentage of natives. Overall, the figure shows that immigrants from the Middle East are better educated than other immigrants and natives.”
When twenty+ guys are telling you they only have two ME women for their dinner/gala, it is way beyond “initial immigration”; outside of the few Christian girls from Lebanon and Syria, there were none from the ME.
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