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Affirmative action proposal for California universities runs into Asian-American opposition
San Jose Mercury News ^ | 3/13/14 updated 3/16/14 | Katy Murphy and Jessica Calefati

Posted on 03/17/2014 1:03:39 AM PDT by blueplum

SACRAMENTO -- A legislative push to permit California's public universities to once again consider race and ethnicity in admissions appears to be on life support after an intense backlash from Asian-American parents who fear it will make it harder for their children to get into good schools. :snip: A planned referendum sailed through the state Senate in January without fanfare on a party-line vote, but three Asian-American Democrats who initially backed the measure are now calling for it to be "tabled" before the state Assembly has a chance to vote on it -- a highly unusual move. And it seems unlikely to get the two-thirds majority in the Assembly without the support of the five Asian-Americans in the lower house.

Over the last several weeks, the three senators who have had second thoughts about the referendum -- Leland Yee, D-San Francisco; Ted Lieu, D-Torrance; and Carol Liu, D- La Cañada/Flintridge...

(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: aa; affirmativeaction; asianamericans; california; californiapolitics; carolliu; education; highereducation; lacanadaflintridge; lelandyee; preferences; prop209; proposition209; quotas; racenorming; sanfrancisco; sca5; tedlieu; torrance
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somebody woke up the Asian community and boy, are they mad!
1 posted on 03/17/2014 1:03:40 AM PDT by blueplum
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To: blueplum

“Affirmative action” is just a leftist euphemism for “race-based quotas.”


2 posted on 03/17/2014 1:18:35 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: blueplum
... Nathan Bedford's first Maxim of American politics: all politics in America is not local but ultimately racial.

...But Der said any debate that pits ethnic minorities against one another serves no one.

...Eight Assembly Democrats belong to the Asian and Pacific Islander Legislative Caucus, and if two or more of them vote "no," the bill will fail.

Asian minorities have demonstrated that there are smart enough to have early on learned the essential truth of Nathan Bedford's Maxim and so organized along ethnic lines to gain political power for their own ethnic group.

In the event it seems they were well advised do so because the article notes that after the passage of proposition 209 by referendum vote, "admission offers to black students have plunged 49 percent at UC Berkeley and 16 percent at UCLA…"

Black pressure groups, long since convinced of Nathan Bedford's Maxim if unenthusiastic about its namesake, have agitated to restore affirmative action.

What is a social engineer to do?

Whatever he does he ought to do it quickly before he learns that in the next California legislative system the newly formed Caucasian Caucus demands a seat at the table.

In the meantime, he can proclaim from the housetops that "diversity is our strength."


3 posted on 03/17/2014 2:08:46 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Westbrook

See below from another thread:

“Affirmative action is a de facto admission by protected groups and the government that “administers” them that they are in fact genetically inferior. Blacks, Hispanics, and females all seem to admit to their inferiority (wanting it enshrined in law), and are laughing all the way to the bank. While destruction of the white males may be their intent, in the end they always come crawling back looking for someone who actually has knowledge and ability; corporations and governments in the end rely on the white guys when the stuff hits the fan, and the tokens are just an added financial burden (like the cost of an additional gubmint regulation).”

In the end, affirmative action degrees, certificates, etc. aren’t worth the paper they’re written on; employers know it, so the natural next step is to force employers to hire these incompetent, semi-literate tokens...


4 posted on 03/17/2014 2:12:12 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: blueplum

Affirmative Action: America destroying itself in order to build the Negro’s self esteem.


5 posted on 03/17/2014 2:14:23 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (They are called "Liberals" because the word "parasite" was already taken.)
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To: blueplum

Come on, this is pure comedy. These politicians get their lifeblood by blaming whites. With no whites they really don’t get along nor is there much interest in a common good or running a state.


6 posted on 03/17/2014 2:28:00 AM PDT by sunrise_sunset
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To: Westbrook

I’m truly amazed it took Asian Americans this long to figure this out, considering how smart they are.

The UC system has been screwing them over for many, many years.

Being nonwhite doesn’t mean affirmative action won’t screw you over, too.


7 posted on 03/17/2014 2:30:59 AM PDT by Catmom (We're all gonna get the punishment only some of us deserve.)
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To: Catmom

Asians actually knew that but they always had viable options in order not to rock the boat. If an Asian did not get into the top schools in science they could still get a good tech job after grad from a second tier school. The recession changed all that. Tech degrees is no longer an easy entry into the tech workforce. When tech employment rate from grads from top schools is only 60 percent and avg schools is 40 percent, suddenly getting into top tier school is no longer an option, it is a major difference from an employment viewpoint. Now tolerating AA came back to bite the typical Asian parent. One thing good about Depressions and Recessions, people start to care about their money and employment opportunities.


8 posted on 03/17/2014 3:41:49 AM PDT by Fee ( Big Gov and Big Business are Enemies of America)
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To: blueplum

Seems like Obama’s Peeps need some Tiger Moms.


9 posted on 03/17/2014 3:51:51 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: blueplum

The subtext behind all these articles is that individuals being hurt by AA is only important if they are minority individuals. Which is really sad to have just accepted as a matter of fact.


10 posted on 03/17/2014 4:00:17 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: blueplum
"As lifelong advocates for the Asian American and other communities, we would never support a policy that we believed would negatively impact our children," the letter states.

Imagine that standing up for their children. When will whites do the same?

11 posted on 03/17/2014 4:02:08 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: kearnyirish2

Except the majority of colleges now have lower entry standards for men than for women.

(Not the very elite colleges, as there are still more men scoring at the very top in math.)


12 posted on 03/17/2014 4:14:22 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: kearnyirish2

Oh, and some STEM degrees have broader admission for women than for men, too. But even there and at the very elite schools, the difference between women and racial or ethnic affirmative action groups is that the majority of women still qualified without the boost—whereas the majority of the favored ethnic groups usually did not.


13 posted on 03/17/2014 4:16:13 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Westbrook

>>“Affirmative action” is just a leftist euphemism for “race-based quotas.”<<

Only the races where hard work is not a cultural value.


14 posted on 03/17/2014 4:19:04 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: blueplum

Lefty Asians versus the left. Nobody to cheer for here.


15 posted on 03/17/2014 4:20:18 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: blueplum

This business of dividing up the country into ethnic groups will frankly destroy us. Work towards a common culture and the idea of a common good.

Blame whitey is not going to work in California when like 15 % of under 20 is white.


16 posted on 03/17/2014 5:09:11 AM PDT by sunrise_sunset
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To: sunrise_sunset

And notice the Chinese complaint is about THEM, not about any idea of fairness. It’s still the same basic idea of ethnic separatism.


17 posted on 03/17/2014 5:10:09 AM PDT by sunrise_sunset
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To: nathanbedford

“admission offers to black students have plunged 49 percent at UC Berkeley and 16 percent at UCLA…”


I wonder how much the graduation rate will increase?


18 posted on 03/17/2014 5:32:26 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed ("Income Inequality?" Let's start with Washington DC vs. the rest of the nation!)
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To: Catmom

I’m truly amazed it took Asian Americans this long to figure this out, considering how smart they are.


Maybe it’s linked to the gene for motor vehicle operation skills?

;-)


19 posted on 03/17/2014 5:33:37 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed ("Income Inequality?" Let's start with Washington DC vs. the rest of the nation!)
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To: Westbrook
“Affirmative action” is just a leftist euphemism for “race-based quotas.”

You are correct and there is only one race that gets those advantages, along with a lifetime supply of race cards to play.

20 posted on 03/17/2014 5:37:53 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Who but a TYRANT shoves down another man's throat what he has exempted himself from?)
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To: kearnyirish2
force employers to hire these incompetent, semi-literate tokens...

So if you're not a white male you're a semi-literate token? LOL

Kearney, you must be hitting the suds a little early on St. Patrick's Day.

You do know that they had to lower the standards for males in colleges because the women applicants had higher scores and grades. But don't let facts interfere with your world view. ;-) BTW Happy St. Paddy's Day.

21 posted on 03/17/2014 5:42:42 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: ladyjane
You do know that they had to lower the standards for males in colleges because the women applicants had higher scores and grades. But don't let facts interfere with your world view

Girls have higher grades but lower SAT scores. Grades measure consistency, whereas SAT scores measure innate talent.

22 posted on 03/17/2014 6:42:02 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: blueplum

Why are so many Asian-Americans Democrats anyway?


23 posted on 03/17/2014 6:50:33 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Westbrook

Asians are a “smart” minority,affirmative action is for “dumb” minorities.

Sad,but true.

.


24 posted on 03/17/2014 6:54:13 AM PDT by Mears
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To: Zhang Fei

Not exactly correct. The averages are about the same. IIRC there are differences in spread and there are more high end scores in the quantitative section for males. The test alleges that it only measures scholastic aptitude.

Re consistency, that’s a very valuable trait. I’d rather hire an engineer who is consistent with a 700 SAT-Q than an inconsistent one with straight 800’s.


25 posted on 03/17/2014 7:07:42 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: 9YearLurker

“Except the majority of colleges now have lower entry standards for men than for women.”

That is absurd, as it would never be tolerated (unless those men are “preferred minorities”). It is no accident that 59% of college classes are female; it is designed that way.


26 posted on 03/17/2014 9:35:16 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: 9YearLurker

“the difference between women and racial or ethnic affirmative action groups is that the majority of women still qualified without the boost—whereas the majority of the favored ethnic groups usually did not.”

If that was true gender wouldn’t be included on the application (and by further extension we wouldn’t have “minority and WOMEN owned businesses”).


27 posted on 03/17/2014 9:36:49 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

When they dump white women off the gravy train, buy popcorn


28 posted on 03/17/2014 9:39:29 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: ladyjane

“So if you’re not a white male you’re a semi-literate token?”

Usually, because of the design of affirmative action. For example, while members of “protected classes” may qualify as a lieutenant in the army, affirmative action takes those candidates and makes them captains. Those that would qualify as captains are pushed up to major, etc.. The same occurs in higher education: candidates that would be qualified for a county college are admitted to state schools, work that would qualify for a bachelor’s degree is taken for a master’s degree, and so on. The problem is that the “beneficiary” is always out of their league, surrounded by better-qualified & trained people, and in most cases, they know it. It is a recipe for failure, and results in real dishonesty in appraising such workers/students.

In college I watched “preferred students” who would have never graduated high school in a “white” system spend a semester looking confused in a state college before dropping out; nobody did them any favors (whatever the intentions/goals were).


29 posted on 03/17/2014 9:43:34 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Depends on the ethnic group. East Indians skew the numbers. They tend to be hostile to and fearful of Christians.


30 posted on 03/17/2014 9:46:00 PM PDT by Darren McCarty (Abortion - legalized murder for convenience)
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To: GeronL

Blacks are pushing for it, and Hispanics will soon have the political power to make it so.


31 posted on 03/17/2014 9:46:17 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: sunrise_sunset

“This business of dividing up the country into ethnic groups will frankly destroy us.”

The America of the 1980s is already completely destroyed; few vestiges of it remain. The original meritocracy is gone, along with opportunity.

“Work towards a common culture and the idea of a common good.”

Anyone even proposing a common culture is viewed as hateful and narrow-minded, and the definition of a “common good” has been so diluted as to require inclusion of every godless act the left can imagine.


32 posted on 03/17/2014 9:49:37 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

That is the very sad part about affirmative action. Promising students are admitted to schools for which they are not prepared. They get beaten down by the system and wash out. It’s a shame because some of these students end up feeling like losers for the rest of their lives when, in fact, they were among the best.


33 posted on 03/17/2014 9:49:47 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: kearnyirish2

The “Melting Pot” is dead, replaced with the “Tossed Salad” and Balkanization.


34 posted on 03/17/2014 9:50:24 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: The Sons of Liberty

“You are correct and there is only one race that gets those advantages, along with a lifetime supply of race cards to play.”

?

At least two races (black, Hispanic) and one gender.


35 posted on 03/17/2014 9:50:58 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: ladyjane

“That is the very sad part about affirmative action. Promising students are admitted to schools for which they are not prepared. They get beaten down by the system and wash out. It’s a shame because some of these students end up feeling like losers for the rest of their lives when, in fact, they were among the best.”

I guess that depends on your point of view; to me the sad part is that a better-qualified student (who wasn’t a “preferred minority/woman”) lost that opportunity that in the end was squandered for political correctness. Nobody can dispute that these policies are de facto admissions by the leftist government that in fact these “protected groups” can’t compete on a level playing field.


36 posted on 03/17/2014 9:55:33 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: dfwgator

“The “Melting Pot” is dead, replaced with the “Tossed Salad” and Balkanization.”

And it was deliberately done by enemies of this country with a divide-and-conquer strategy to remove power from a WASP majority and place it in the hands of a Bolshevik minority.


37 posted on 03/17/2014 9:57:25 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Nope—you’re way behind the times. Schools are deathly afraid of hitting too high a female to male ratio—since both men and women then start to avoid it—so they end up favoring men in order to get closer to a balanced ratio.

Other than the top schools, they simply don’t have as many qualified men applying, so they drop the standards on grades and tests.


38 posted on 03/17/2014 11:02:24 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

“Nope—you’re way behind the times. Schools are deathly afraid of hitting too high a female to male ratio—since both men and women then start to avoid it—so they end up favoring men in order to get closer to a balanced ratio. Other than the top schools, they simply don’t have as many qualified men applying, so they drop the standards on grades and tests.”

I’ve followed this issue closely; they just don’t want the student bodies to reach 60% female (59% is fine with them).


39 posted on 03/18/2014 2:50:53 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

60% is the turning point of pretty much no return in being an attractive school to prospective students. But to keep from hitting that dread point they accept boys with lesser records than girls.

You need to follow it a little more closely.


40 posted on 03/18/2014 3:12:59 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

I dispute the contention that boys are less qualified; I’ve seen the gender breakdown in higher-level classes, and many of the replacement Americans’ cultures wouldn’t even bother sending a female to college (they’re the ones reproducing). Now they just want to move that 59% up to the graduate and doctorate level, since there really is no shortage of American males that can make the cut.


41 posted on 03/18/2014 3:23:06 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

As I said before, there still tends to be a difference in the boys’ favor in STEM programs and in acceptance to the very elite schools—there are more boys at the very top of the SAT’s.

The replacement Americans with cultures that discriminate against girls academically are clustered at the lower end of the bell curve anyway. (And again, the racial differences in scores are very large, the male-female differences quite small.)

I’m not for affirmative action of any type. But there is indeed a reverse affirmative action going on at the bulk of American colleges to simply get a more equal sex ratio in their student bodies.

I actually don’t know how I feel about that. I can understand colleges wanting more equal representation for social reasons, but that’s not really any different than other affirmative-action quotas—and it’s not really fair to any individuals who may lose out because of it.


42 posted on 03/18/2014 3:38:03 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

“The replacement Americans with cultures that discriminate against girls academically are clustered at the lower end of the bell curve anyway.”

Not really, the Asians and Middle Eastern students aren’t at the lower end.

“But there is indeed a reverse affirmative action going on at the bulk of American colleges to simply get a more equal sex ratio in their student bodies.”

Then I guess the people I know who are forced to pee away time in community colleges for their sons, while their non-achieving daughters go straight into state schools, have it all wrong.

“I can understand colleges wanting more equal representation for social reasons,”

I can’t; I thought they were schools, not hook-ups.


43 posted on 03/18/2014 3:48:13 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2
That is absurd, as it would never be tolerated (unless those men are “preferred minorities”). It is no accident that 59% of college classes are female; it is designed that way.

Sorry, Kearny, it's true. Forget about Stanford and MIT. Forget too about Rensselaer and even the NJIT's of the world where the girls have an easier time getting in. Think about the vast majority of schools like Catholic U and Seton Hall. The male/female ratios at those schools were getting so skewed that it not only became easier to get in if you were a boy, it was easier to get merit scholarship money. It may be the only time in a white male's life he's at a statistical advantage, but the advantage is undeniably there.

44 posted on 03/18/2014 4:10:52 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: old and tired

Catholic schools have no place in this discussion; they will accept anyone who can pay at this point (and were always able to determine their admissions policies instead of having judges determine them). More than twenty years ago when I was looking at colleges, people only went to private schools (temporarily) when they were rejected by state schools; after a year they were in the state schools as well. Nobody is making a real effort (outside of propaganda ploys) to get white males in schools; you can believe the “officials” or your lying eyes...


45 posted on 03/18/2014 4:18:13 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants in the U.S. tend to have and foster highly educated women.

Probably they do, or they are anecdotal exceptions.

Even though they are nonprofits, most colleges are businesses and they thrive on customer demand.


46 posted on 03/18/2014 4:32:00 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

“Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants in the U.S. tend to have and foster highly educated women.”

The Muslim ones certainly don’t; those students would approach me and ask if I knew any girls who would go to their cultural nights because there were so few females from their countries in school.

“Even though they are nonprofits, most colleges are businesses and they thrive on customer demand.”

Sure; here in NJ the state colleges would rather give the seat to a foreigner at a higher price than an American student.


47 posted on 03/18/2014 1:50:54 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Catmom

In the late 80s I spoke in our management meeting in Sacramento and said that we had 12% Asian employees and the community was 5%. So according to our affirmative goals, we have to get rid of and stop hiring asians. You could have heard a pin drop. I was considered a neandrethal.

We also had a real african american. Born to Italian family in Ethiopia. He was the only african born person in the building. He used to make their blood boil.

When I went back to my office, my secretary said, “That’s why we oppose affirmative action.”


48 posted on 03/18/2014 1:56:54 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: kearnyirish2

Yes, and you are talking about foreign students studying in the U.S., which is rather different from regular immigrants. For men to outnumber women in immigration, and especially initial immigration, is not unusual.

ME immigrants in the US tend to be highly educated, with an emphasis on education extended to their women as well.

“Figure 2 shows that in contrast to immigrants in general, those from the Middle East tend to be more educated than natives. While a very large share of immigrants overall are high school dropouts, those from the Middle East are only slightly more likely to be dropouts than natives. At the higher end of the education distribution, almost 49 percent of Middle Eastern immigrants have at least a bachelor’s degree compared to only 28 percent of natives; and at the highest end, 21 percent have a graduate or professional degree, more than twice the percentage of natives. Overall, the figure shows that immigrants from the Middle East are better educated than other immigrants and natives.”

http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back902.html


49 posted on 03/18/2014 2:07:16 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

When twenty+ guys are telling you they only have two ME women for their dinner/gala, it is way beyond “initial immigration”; outside of the few Christian girls from Lebanon and Syria, there were none from the ME.


50 posted on 03/18/2014 2:09:29 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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