Skip to comments.Tanks and trenches to defend Ukraine from Russia
Posted on 03/18/2014 5:28:37 AM PDT by McGruff
Ukraine despatched tanks into the rolling terrain of the Donbas basin on Monday, putting its biggest guns back on the scene of the biggest armoured clash in history.
It was in this bleak but fertile landscape along what is now Ukraine's border with Russia that the Red Army routed Nazi Panzers to turn the course of the Second World War.
But as Ukraine's dilapidated tank units moved to muddy berms in the fields south of Donetsk city as part of face-saving mobilisation, the guns of T-64 and T-72 models were this time pointed towards Russia.
In responding to a reported Russian military build-up, however, Ukraine's military immediately ran into groups of activists who tried to obstruct their movements. In the village of Elenvola on the edge of the great plain, there was anger at the manoeuvres from their own countrymen.
"Russians and Ukrainians don't want to fight each other," said Ivan Inozemev, a prison warder. "We would be happy to be part of Russia if that's what happens."
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
It’s a suicide mission for the Ukrainians, and any general who sends them in should be shot. The Russians control the airspace, period, and Ukrainian tanks will be target practice for the Russians.
So they should just roll over and do nothing?
15 minutes of propaganda and a lot of dead tankers if fighting starts.
I see that the Soviet community activists are already taking orders from Putin to slow down their own countrymen. If only there was a country anywhere in the world with the strength to slow the Soviets ...
Interesting that the same actions don't seem to happen from the other side ...
at least make the russkies pay for it
a pox upon the Telegraph, won’t let me read the article
The litte guy vs the big guy
Sounds like they're nearly as committed and interested in Ukrainian sovereignty as, well, as Obama.
Sounds like the Ukrainians are preparing for a WW 1 defense in the year 2014. If Putin snaps his finger Ukraine is history. Ukrainians should resolve to fight a guerrilla war as the Afghans did to defeat Russia.
The Ukranians should learn from the Afghans.
Irregular and nonstop treacherous combat.
Don’t send tanks, send IED’s.
Stop reading my mind.
Blood is the only thing the world understands. Now Putin is a hero, lets see how he might fare as a butcher. The Ukrainians must set some type of tripwire.
Exactly. The Ukrainians should plan for a long asymmetric guerrilla against any potential Russia occupiers, and it’s going to need to be understood that it’s going to a protracted and bloody affair, with lots of body bags going home to Mother Russia.
Afghanistan 2.0 in other words.
think about what you said
so are you saying that the Warsaw Ghetto uprising wasn’t worth fighting? I differ. I say in the words of Patrick Henry: “Give me liberty or give me death.”
Look what's happened to the "democracies" of the west. Our leaders are supporting a government that includes nazie sympathizers, installed after a coup manipulated by US interference. They're condemning a vote against that takeover that deposed an elected government.
What should they do? They should let the people vote whether they want to go with Russia or stay with Ukraine. Those who consider themselves Russian should not be forced to stay with a government installed by a coup, especially since we now know it wasn't a popular uprising that took over the government.
Yeah. Probably. Successful military planning starts a lot earlier than two-weeks ago. Here’s a clear case of not taking a knife to a gunfight.
Sending tanks into today's battlespace without any air cover/support is a suicide mission. Period.
Do you remember what we did to the Iraqi tank divisions? During Desert Storm I believe we destroyed over 1,000 of Saddam's tanks, even those of the "vaunted" Republican Guard. I think we lost 1 or 2 tanks.
That's what happens when you send out tanks without air cover. Saddam didn't give a crap about his troops..I assume the Ukrainian generals have more smarts and compassion.
If the Russians invade, they should order the troops to destroy the tanks in place, and surrender.
Still haven’t figured out why the “outrage” over alleged US interference, but not a peep about Russian interference.
I suppose it’s more posturing by the Ukrainians to try to negotiate some kind of face-saving deal with the Russians....perhaps to try to get a “Velvet Divorce”, which would be, all things considered, the best possible outcome here.
Russians are protecting Russians in an area that is historically Russian. The US should be defending our border with Mexico from the invasion and the impact it’s having on US citizens.
I suspect most of the Ukrainians will surrender in droves.
Fade back and strike when you can with unconventional warfare
Right, so how would you feel about Mexico protecting Mexicans in an area that is historically Mexican?
I love it when people say that no one needs a tank anymore.
Better red than dead, eh? Have not heard that since the sixties.
Why would Ukraine NOT have air defense systems and close ground support?
Weren't those integrated into all Warsaw-Pact armies?
I mean, they had nukes for crying out loud, they MUST have some other relatively modern weapons systems.
If they needed protection, I'd accept that. It is one of the problems with the invasion of the US. Huge swaths of the country have not assimilated to the US.
I'd say that if you don't want that to happen, you're totally in sync with putting US troops on the US southern border and sending home invaders into this country for good.
“Do you remember what we did to the Iraqi tank divisions?”
They weren’t all destroyed by air. The air destruction was greatest on their retreat, but it was tanks that killed those tanks on the front. And, yes, we lost a couple.
Ok, so Mexico declares that Mexicans in Texas need protection from the Tea Party . . . .
Our tanks were free to maneuver and attack because they didn’t have to worry about any air attacks.
Yep, militarily sound.
Ukraine should lease an airbase to an EU lead effort of Nato. Should not be lead by the U.S as the U.S military has been compromised and we have no prevailing interest other than goodwill and valuable consideration from our European allies.
Modern weapons systems cost $$$$, lots of it, and require lots of maintenance, and trained troops to perform it. The Ukraine has lacked all 3 since independence. The Soviets gave them the nukes..
That’s OK..they’ll have a chance then..but not in tanks against the Russians.
So send the Mexicans home before that happens. If the area becomes overwhelmingly Mexican and doesn't assimilate, it's because of the number of invaders allowed in the US.
I think there is a bigger issue here. A fully mobilized Russian army on the loose in Europe means they are not stopping with Crimea. Moldavia will also fall and it’s possible Kazakhstan to the east could also fall.
Of course Obama removing defensive missiles once again show how courageous he is when it comes to foreign affairs.
On a good note, this just eliminated the wife of the first disbarred, impeached rapist from the 2016 race. Explains why the GOP is pretty quiet. This is all Hillary’s fault....reset my a$$.
Putin’s arrival through the golden doors at the Kremlin this morning was that of a conquering hero. The eleven oligarchs whom The Won named in U.S. sanctions were seated in the front row of the applauding, standing-ovation crowd. No one looked nervous about retaliation by the weakling West.
But just in case Latvia, Estonia, Poland et al are worried, VP Biden is touring in these counties. (Cue “Send in the Clown”....)
Let them fight an unconventional war..look what the mujahadein did to the Soviets in Afghanistan..just not throw away lives..
Maybe we should provide the air cover—Like the old Flying Tigers in China before the USA was in WW II. Volunteers frlying hot fighters—to fly for Free Ukraine? Maybe get the Euros to help?
Circular logic--that leads to: "If they needed protection, I'd accept that."
PS: and the case for Russian protection is stronger. The government they democratically voted for was overthrown by a coup.
Thank you, sir....
That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
You misunderstood. Hypothetically, deporting Mexicans from Texas would lead to Mexico declaring that they need protection, then invading with troops.
On the bright side, the U.S. and European stock markets rose nicely after Putin’s victory declaration. They believe him when he says he will not add any more territories to his quiver. Obviously, he has more credibility than our lying leader.
Watch as 1000 years of European borders change