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If Crimea rejoins Russia, itís only the latest twist in 1,000 years of European border shifts
Marketwatch.com ^ | 3/17/2014 | Tim Rostan

Posted on 03/18/2014 6:28:26 PM PDT by gwjack

The borders of Europe have been static since the breakups of the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, and the reunification of Germany, but look set to shift shortly, if the Duma in Moscow ratifies the stated desire of a Crimean majority to quit Ukraine for Russia. But a broader perspective, taking into account the past 1,000 years of European history, shows that change on the continent has been a near-constant.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agitprop; alreadyposted; crimea; geography; memebuilding; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; waronterror; yuliatymoshenko
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This 3+ minute presentation depicts the changing geography of EurAsia from 1000 AD to 2005.
1 posted on 03/18/2014 6:28:26 PM PDT by gwjack
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To: gwjack
After WW2, the USSR moved the whole country of Poland to the west, chopping off eastern Poland for itself, and making German Silesia into western Poland.

If you moved Poland back to its pre-WW2 borders, Germany gets back Silesia, Poland gets back west Ukraine, and Russia gets eastern Ukraine.

Oops. Ukraine odd man out.

2 posted on 03/18/2014 6:45:23 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: MUDDOG

Well during the war, the Ukrainians could have chosen to fight with the Poles, instead of slaughtering her women and children in the thousands.


3 posted on 03/18/2014 6:47:06 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
The whole place has been a killing field since the collapse of the empires after WW1.

I miss the old Austro-Hungarian empire.

4 posted on 03/18/2014 6:50:07 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: MUDDOG

I miss the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.


5 posted on 03/18/2014 6:52:02 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

It’s a neat name!


6 posted on 03/18/2014 6:53:27 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: MUDDOG

And Winged Hussars looked totally bad ass.

7 posted on 03/18/2014 6:55:09 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: gwjack

Great look at the present! Just who is looking at the future? I”d guess that the answer is nobody!

Welcome to our future of the unknown with crazy leaders and even crazier outcomes.


8 posted on 03/18/2014 6:57:13 PM PDT by Deagle (ues)
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To: MUDDOG

Russia’s claim on Crimea is stronger than a lot of invasions.
1. It has a 200+ year history in the area, since Crimea is a warm water Black Sea port. Far more history than some invasions and pretenses.
2. It had a military presence there even after the independence of Ukraine as its own country. Sevastopol was one of the largest naval ports they had, period. The Mediterranean port is has in Syria is one of the others, hence Russia siding with the Syrian dictator in its civil war.
3. Around 60% of the population is ethnic Russian. That’s a stronger basis than they had for trying (and failing) to take over the “stans” like Uzbekistan.
4. Putin reunifying his people and strategic territories. His people both support this action and they support him. His people support him more for defending their interests than if he kowtowed to the West.
5. There is debate that taking over Crimea is a middle finger to the West in return for the West led revolution in Ukraine. So this is a political retribution that is also in their longer term political interest.
6. A lot of pipelines go through Crimea, and Russia is a petroleum exporter.


9 posted on 03/18/2014 6:58:52 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: dfwgator

you must be pretty old..


10 posted on 03/18/2014 7:00:23 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: gwjack

Instructive film on Netflix called “Putin’s Kiss.”

While they still have a long way to go, Russia IS coming back and we’d better be ready!


11 posted on 03/18/2014 7:00:28 PM PDT by Dick Bachert (Ignorance is NOT BLISS. It is the ROAD TO SERFDOM! We're on a ROAD TRIP!!)
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To: RitchieAprile

I’m like Patton. :)

So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.


12 posted on 03/18/2014 7:01:54 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: tbw2
Good points.

Ukraine has had 20 years to get its act together. It has been in a state for chaos for years, and Putin didn't act until Ukraine's latest coup made the place even more chaotic.

Certainly Russia has been meddling in Ukraine, but not enough to excuse Ukraine for not building up their own country. They blew it.

13 posted on 03/18/2014 7:08:14 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: MUDDOG

Wow, love it that you blame the Ukrainians for their problems! Are you Russian?

Please, get a grip!

It is idiotic to blame the people as they individually have little say in the process. Only if they mass on the borders and demand rights does anything change, and it usually takes loss of life for that. Is that what you wish?

Maybe you are so use to a Democratic lifestyle that you don’t understand the desire for freedom in other countries.


14 posted on 03/18/2014 7:15:15 PM PDT by Deagle (ues)
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To: Deagle

No, I am American. Are you Ukrainian?


15 posted on 03/18/2014 7:16:31 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: MUDDOG

No, but I did expect a more sympathetic response from you. These folks are fighting for their freedom and some here seem to think that it is a trivial thing.


16 posted on 03/18/2014 7:17:58 PM PDT by Deagle (ues)
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Meme-building, already posted:

...Map of Europe 1000 AD to present with timeline [Borders Animated 1140-2011 in 3 minutes]
liveleak.com
Posted on 3/17/2014 8:43:33 PM by SoFloFreeper
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3134326/posts


17 posted on 03/18/2014 7:30:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Deagle
I don't want to be unsympathetic to anybody, but I don't think it's as simple as "Ukraine is fighting for its freedom."

They are not a homogeneous group; they have large and different political and ethnic factions, and they are fighting among themselves.

I don't like Putin, but let's face it, the boundaries over there are artificial.

And I do blame the Ukraine for not making significant progress toward building a unified country in the 20 years they've had, if they were to demonstrate they are a real country, and not just lines on the map left over from the break-up of the USSR.

No offense.

18 posted on 03/18/2014 7:30:27 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: MUDDOG

Remember they got Western Ukraine by kicking out the Poles who lived there for centuries.


19 posted on 03/18/2014 7:31:06 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
That's a good point. The 20th century has seen massive ethnic cleansing. Think of the millions of Germans expelled from the Sudetenland and Silesia following WW2.

Ah, but they "deserved" it. /sarc

20 posted on 03/18/2014 7:34:20 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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