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Ukraine Sets Deadline for Militias to Surrender Illegal Guns
NYT ^ | March 20, 2014 | By ANDREW E. KRAMER

Posted on 03/20/2014 10:37:37 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

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To: WildHighlander57

History can be a harsh teacher.
With Russia breathing down their necks and no help coming from the EU, its time to arm everyone and hope for the best.


51 posted on 03/21/2014 5:23:40 AM PDT by Yorlik803 ( Church/Caboose in 2016)
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To: grania

Taking their guns? Wait until they get their gas bills. They can use the IMF loan to pay Russia for their overdue gas bill.

Since the lease deal for the Crimean port is no longer needed, Ukraine loses the discount that was part of the deal. 40% increase on NG. Back to paying full market rates.

http://interfaxenergy.com/natural-gas-news-analysis/russia-and-the-caspian/ukraine-to-raise-domestic-gas-prices-by-40/


52 posted on 03/21/2014 5:35:08 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Jim Robinson
Thursday by the French ambassador to Ukraine, Alain Rémy, who said the disarmament of the militias that helped overthrow the former government is a central requirement for the European Union to begin disbursing financial aid...

The EU has now made financial aid contingent on the Ukrainians surrendering the means by which they secured their freedom in the first place. The EU has to my knowledge offered no military assistance to Ukraine so without the militias Ukraine is dependent upon their thoroughly infiltrated, Russian trained military which I doubt would stand for more than a few hours against a Russian invasion.

What has happened is this: freedom has broken out and the first reaction of the Western "Powers" is to try to dial it back. The EU wants Ukraine under Russian control in order to preserve the status quo.

53 posted on 03/21/2014 5:59:06 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF (Pray for the owners and staff of Ares Armor)
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To: Jim Robinson
I am guessing they did not get a "second amendment" in their constitution when all the chaos was occurring.

Ukraine Gun Owners Association Demands Their Own Second Amendment
54 posted on 03/21/2014 5:59:40 AM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: Jim Robinson
Thursday by the French ambassador to Ukraine, Alain Rémy, who said the disarmament of the militias that helped overthrow the former government is a central requirement for the European Union to begin disbursing financial aid...

The EU has now made financial aid contingent on the Ukrainians surrendering the means by which they secured their freedom in the first place. The EU has to my knowledge offered no military assistance to Ukraine so without the militias Ukraine is dependent upon their thoroughly infiltrated, Russian trained military which I doubt would stand for more than a few hours against a Russian invasion.

What has happened is this: freedom has broken out and the first reaction of the Western "Powers" is to try to dial it back. The EU wants Ukraine under Russian control in order to preserve the status quo.

55 posted on 03/21/2014 6:00:05 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF (Pray for the owners and staff of Ares Armor)
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To: Yorlik803

The Ukrainians are worried. Putin’s fag army is loose inside the country and laying land mines. It’s only a matter time before some Ukrainian patriots start shooting at them. That’s why the government mistakenly trying a gun grab.


56 posted on 03/21/2014 6:03:19 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: Lazamataz; Alberta's Child
Russia is, at the very minimum, behaving like a sane country.

There is no legal private gun ownership in the Russian Federation at all, except for hunters or BB guns.

57 posted on 03/21/2014 6:09:32 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Alberta's Child

Yes, the goose stepping EU disarming the militias. Part of living in a free society? Really sucks to fight for your freedom then get disarmed. Typical leftists.


58 posted on 03/21/2014 6:09:51 AM PDT by Busko (The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

> The order was seconded on Thursday by the French ambassador to Ukraine, Alain Remy, who said the disarmament of the militias that helped overthrow the former government is a central requirement for the European Union to begin disbursing financial aid, along with the government fighting corruption.

Why would self-defense *not* be the same thing as fighting “corruption”? The foot-shooting continues. Thanks JimRob.


59 posted on 03/21/2014 6:10:12 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Jim Robinson
Prime Minister Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk, who was a staunch supporter of the protesters but never condoned violent tactics, set the deadline for Friday

Gun confiscation is one of the things that happens when you have Globalist Bankster stooges like Yatsenyuk in charge. The Banksters used these Kiev 'protestors' as pawns to overthrow the Ukraine government just like they used Al Qaeda in Libya and Syria. Suckers.

Wait until the Banksters start taking the Ukrainian's bank accounts and natural resources. The Ukrainian people will beg the Russians to come in.

60 posted on 03/21/2014 6:21:18 AM PDT by Count of Monte Fisto (The foundation of modern society is the denial of reality.)
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To: Jim Robinson

City to Shooting Range: Get Rid of NRA Membership Requirement or Get Out

March 20 2014
by Dan Cannon
Share This Post

A gun club in Colorado that has been in existence for over 60 years finds itself between a rock and a hard place.

Recently, the club changed its rules to require all members to also be members of the NRA. The move was made so that the club would be eligible for certain grants and other benefits provided by the NRA for member ranges. The club was counting on that assistance to make needed upgrades to the aging indoor range.

However, the city, who owns the property the gun club is located on, wasn’t too happy about that move. According to the Durango Herald,

The city of Durango has given notice to the Durango Gun Club: The nonprofit must either abandon its new requirement that each of its 700 members join the National Rifle Association, or the club must vacate its Florida Road premises, which the club has leased free from the city since 1963.

In the city’s eviction letter, which was addressed to Malarsie, city attorney David Smith wrote that if the club’s NRA “policy is, in fact, in place, it is an objectionable use of public land and must be discontinued. If the Board of Directors of the club choose not to discontinue this policy, this letter constitutes notice to vacate the premises within the next 30 days.”

In the eviction letter, dated March 13, Smith requests that the club’s leadership inform the city of its decision in the next 10 days.

La Plata County Manager Joe Kerby said the county is reviewing whether the club’s NRA membership requirement violates the terms of its lease with the county.

The gun club’s leadership feel that Colorado’s changing politics as well as the city wanting the land for other projects are the real issue at play here.

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/city-to-shooting-range-get-rid-of-nra-membership-requirement-or-get-out/


61 posted on 03/21/2014 6:22:38 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: Jim Robinson

Do they not have deep bodies of water ? No tragic boating accidents ?


62 posted on 03/21/2014 6:22:56 AM PDT by Einherjar
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To: Jim Robinson
They should stick to their guns.

Sooner or later, Putin is going to try to take a 2nd bite.

They should learn the lesson of the Warsaw uprising: if you ain't got guns, you will have to risk your life to get them later.

63 posted on 03/21/2014 6:27:10 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (Blog: www.BackwoodsEngineer.com)
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To: annalex
There is no legal private gun ownership in the Russian Federation at all, except for hunters or BB guns.

Incorrect:

From a Russian citizen:

 Members of public are allowed to own these categories of firearms:
 
1. Shotguns (and air-rifles from 3 to 25 joules of muzzle power)
 2. Rifles (after 5 years long term of owning a shotgun and 5 years long membership in a hunting cooperative)
 These two categories mean shoulder guns.
 
3. "Self-defense weapons" Those are gas pistols and so-called traumatic guns which fire a rubber bullet using a light charge of gunpowder.
 
No handguns, automatic fire and such.
 
Licences.
 Buying a gun requires obtaining a licence from the police. Anyone starting from 18 years of age can obtain a shotgun or a self-defense weapons licence if he/she meets those criterias:
 
- not in file as a drug addict/alcoholic
 - not in file as mentally ill
 - no criminal record
 - health certificate
 - no certain misdemeanours comitted (such like misuse of firearms)
 - that person passed an exam (on legal issues and firearm handling).
 - good character report from the neighbourhood police inspector
 - a steel gun safe. (very often they require it to be fixed to a wall)
 
The rifle license requires the same plus 5 years long owning of a hunting smoothbore licence 

There are these types of licences:
 
1. Hunting smoothbore /air powered weapons - this requires joining a hunting cooperative before applying to the police. Hunting cooperatives require an applicant to pass an exam. One with such licence can keep a weapon at home, wear it in hunting/sports grounds and transport it elsewhere. A gun being transported must be unloaded, upholstered, ammo stored separately.
 
2. Self-defense smoothbore /air powered weapons. One with this licence can keep a weapon at home. 

3. Rifle licence. Same as hunting smoothbore weapons' licence carry/storing/transporting regulations plus annual forensic shoot-off.
 
4. Self-defense weapons. One can carry such a weapon everywhere except certain places.
 
All the licences must be renewed in 5 years. One can buy up to 5 pieces of weapons of each category. Cold weapons can be bought by hunting licence holders.
 
Ammo.
 Ammo can be bought according to the caliber in your licence. That is a 0.308Win rifle owner cannot buy 30-06 cartridges. Gun dealers log ammo purchases. 

Shotgun shells can be legally reloaded (powder is sold by the gun dealers). Rifle cartridges - a legal uncertainity with them, rifle powder cannot be found on sale. However, rifle owners disassemble factory cartridges to get the powder and load imported shells with it and imported bullets Those ones are bought mainly in the US web-shops.
 
There are private security firms. 
They can rent (previously could own) handguns from the police. The handguns are limited in muzzle power - 300 J. 

64 posted on 03/21/2014 6:28:38 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: Lazamataz

What’s “incorrect”? Rifles are for hunters with 5-year history and self defense is air guns and rubber bullets only.


65 posted on 03/21/2014 6:34:38 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: montag813
John McCain’s buddies at work confiscating guns.

Obama wanted Yats the "technocrat" and that's what he got.

Ukrainians will go to the polls in May. If they want to keep their guns they need to elect somebody who would support that.

66 posted on 03/21/2014 6:38:13 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Lazamataz

Agree with you that insanity has flown out the window.


67 posted on 03/21/2014 6:56:26 AM PDT by bgill
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To: annalex

Shotguns for anyone, rifles for anyone who wants to hunt OR engage in any shooting sport.


68 posted on 03/21/2014 6:57:07 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: Jim Robinson

I see a lot of boating accidents in Ukraine’s future.


69 posted on 03/21/2014 6:58:10 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Jim Robinson
MOLON LABE
70 posted on 03/21/2014 6:59:50 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: Lazamataz

The rock group WHO had a song with the lyrics:

“Here comes the new Boss...same as the old Boss..”


71 posted on 03/21/2014 7:20:48 AM PDT by OldArmy52 (The question is not whether Obama ever lies, but whether he ever tells the truth.)
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To: Lazamataz; annalex

Thank you, as I was going to concur on that your statement.

Got a gal here I work with from Russia who confirms your information.

AND

There are tons of (Russian) folks who are/were grandfathered in when these rules took effect, and none of these rules include the black market, of course.

In short, the Russian citizens are ARMED.

Which leads me to state the point I was going to make: If Russia wants all of the Ukraine right now, they can take the country without firing a shot by declaring the following:

1) insure all bank deposits with oil revenue.
2) you can keep your guns.
3) Optional: Protection from Mandated EU social contracts (e.g. no forced free sodomy laws as a pre-requisite for aid)

Check and Mate.

P.S. The way this government and the EU is acting, no need to worry about Putin/Russia making any moves toward the Baltic states. They’ll come running to Russia’s open arms for for protection.


72 posted on 03/21/2014 7:46:34 AM PDT by jimjohn (You don't get the kind of government you want, or the kind you need. You get the kind you deserve.)
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To: Drago
Whose side are we on again?

Great question.

73 posted on 03/21/2014 8:16:17 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck

On the side of truth and freedom.


74 posted on 03/21/2014 8:18:01 AM PDT by cornelis
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To: Navy Patriot

Don’t forget - the Russian media anchor speaks out against Putin, and she’s given a trip to the region so she can learn what is going on. A Crimean network exec tries to cover the news, and Ukrainian regime brownwhirts break into his office and bully him into resigning.

As in Syria, Egypt, the Balkans - the Eurocrats are backing the very bad guys against the bad guys.


75 posted on 03/21/2014 8:25:08 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35

Correct on both points, thanks for the reminder.


76 posted on 03/21/2014 8:36:10 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: annalex; Lazamataz; Alberta's Child
There is no legal private gun ownership in the Russian Federation at all, except for hunters or BB guns.

That is an outright lie.

77 posted on 03/21/2014 8:40:29 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Lazamataz

I just want to look at them... to make certain they’re safe.


78 posted on 03/21/2014 8:49:50 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity; goldstategop
Third, the EU/US have broken Ukraine and won’t be able to fix it.

Fourth, the EU/US and the Western MSM will blame Russia for all this.

79 posted on 03/21/2014 8:51:36 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

I’m finally understanding, too. I’ve been sitting on the fence about this whole affair because I wasn’t sure what to believe until now, but calls for the disarming of the populace by the Ukrainian government has really opened my eyes.


80 posted on 03/21/2014 9:04:02 AM PDT by Grandma Conservative (Take back the GOP Now, not in two years or be prepared to vote RINO once again.)
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To: RKBA Democrat

But they aren’t the same. If the old boss were the same as the new one there would by no need for the new boss to try to confiscate firearms because the old one would already have done so.


81 posted on 03/21/2014 9:06:13 AM PDT by Grandma Conservative (Take back the GOP Now, not in two years or be prepared to vote RINO once again.)
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To: Grandma Conservative

Welcome aboard, prepare for the hatred.


82 posted on 03/21/2014 9:17:48 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Coming soon to a country near you.


83 posted on 03/21/2014 9:17:54 AM PDT by Drill Thrawl (The Gubment Has No Legitimacy. It needs to be Removed!)
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To: Navy Patriot; Grandma Conservative

“Welcome aboard, prepare for the hatred.”

Indeed. Hell hath no fury like an Obamacon bloodeater.


84 posted on 03/21/2014 9:39:31 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (My citizenship is not here.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Asking to surrender the guns is one of the dumbest things the new government has done so far. They are acting like the fight is over and they’re in charge of the situation. It’s nowhere near to be over. Even when it is over, the people will need to stay armed against future Yanukoviches.

There’s a lot of criticism of the new Ukrainian government. Putin has all the initiative and everything that they do is reactive, sometimes a week behind. This criticism is not loud yet, because the country is technically in a state of war with Russia and they’re trying to present a unified front at wartime. But it will be getting louder if the new government keeps up pulling stunts like this.


85 posted on 03/21/2014 9:40:59 AM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: Jim Robinson

The Bandera-Ites won’t give up their guns.


86 posted on 03/21/2014 9:42:04 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Jim Robinson

sigh... it never ends.

Give them the bullets first.


87 posted on 03/21/2014 9:42:16 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Lazamataz; Jim Robinson

“...The common call of the tyrant: “I need your guns.”...”

The common answer of free men: “Did you hear that sound? That was the soft click of our rifle safeties being disengaged, all across the land...”


88 posted on 03/21/2014 9:44:35 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: NFHale

This is in Ukraine ... their rifles click rather loudly when taken off safe ... ;’}


89 posted on 03/21/2014 9:45:38 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: Red in Blue PA

“...not be holding a musket...”

An M1 Garand, M1A, or AR15 will do just fine.


90 posted on 03/21/2014 9:45:40 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: backwoods-engineer
sooner or later, Putin is going to try to take a second bite

The way this is going, Ukranians will use their guns and work with the Russians to get rid of the EU bankers.

91 posted on 03/21/2014 9:45:55 AM PDT by grania
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To: NorthMountain

I am VERY familiar with their particular firearms, and you are indeed correct.

But a little proper application of the file in the proper location goes a LONG way to quieting things down...

:^)


92 posted on 03/21/2014 9:50:00 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: NFHale

Whether loud or quiet(er), I hope they have the guts and the brains to hang on to their rifles.

I also hope we AMERICANS have the guts and the brains to hang on to OUR rifles.


93 posted on 03/21/2014 10:04:13 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: RKBA Democrat

Thats is because the new boss knows that most like him less than the old boss


94 posted on 03/21/2014 10:06:40 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: OldArmy52

The Who..It’s “meet the new boss, same as the old boss:)”


95 posted on 03/21/2014 10:07:24 AM PDT by Rick66 (Don't dislike me cause I live in Massholechusetts.)
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To: grania

It should also make us wonder if the playbook will be tried here.


96 posted on 03/21/2014 10:09:53 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Cold Heat
At the risk of being thoroughly chastised once again I will opine. 1. I see George Soros fingerprints all over this. 2. Getting the Ukrainians to turn over their guns for money worked one time previously. That is probably why they are in the fix they are now. the last one was orchestrated by then Senator Barrack Obama and the first Black President Bill Clinton. 2. obama fooled the voters again in 2012 like he did in 2008 so he knows that he can fool the Ukrainians one more time.
97 posted on 03/21/2014 10:10:49 AM PDT by sport
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To: sport

Could be....

Certainly possible. Our leadership is utterly duplicitous most of the time.

But this model for EU/IMF investment is old hat and my guess is that they are simply employing a directive that they already have a habit of doing.

The legitimate Ukrainian government has to play along to get along so they can stabilize the country financially in the short term. That’s why I assume that few actual militia guns will be retrieved..and they will find a way to say that they got many of them voluntarily so they can tell this to the media.

I would..


98 posted on 03/21/2014 10:41:36 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Jim Robinson
is a central requirement for the European Union to begin disbursing financial aid

Yes and what the globalist demands the globalist gets.Bread for your guns!

99 posted on 03/21/2014 11:11:40 AM PDT by Lent
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To: Alberta's Child

There is an uneasy alliance between right wing nationalist soccer hooligan types and corrupt political hacks and oligarchs from the Tymoshenko faction, ie the “pro-Western” people. They are pro-Western in the same sense that Karzai and Maliki are, they will accept Western help to get power and then use that power to loot the country, just like the other political mafia does.

Obviously, this is not a stable situation.

If a free election was held now, the people who have been put in charge may well get less votes than the nationalists or even the Yanukovych people.

The situation in Ukraine will likely be chaotic for a long time, even if Russia and Ukraine settle all disputes.


100 posted on 03/21/2014 11:53:50 AM PDT by Monmouth78
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