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Putin looks to Asia as West threatens to isolate Russia
Reuters ^ | 21 Mar 2014 | Timothy Heritage and Vladimir Soldatkin

Posted on 03/21/2014 3:40:49 AM PDT by Racehorse

The underlying message from the head of Russia's biggest oil company, Rosneft, was clear: If Europe and the United States isolate Russia, Moscow will look East for new business, energy deals, military contracts and political alliances.

The Holy Grail for Moscow is a natural gas supply deal with China that is apparently now close after years of negotiations. If it can be signed when Putin visits China in May, he will be able to hold it up to show that global power has shifted eastwards and he does not need the West.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; energy; naturalgas; obama; putin; russia

1 posted on 03/21/2014 3:40:50 AM PDT by Racehorse
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To: Racehorse

Good!


2 posted on 03/21/2014 3:41:56 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Racehorse


3 posted on 03/21/2014 3:44:19 AM PDT by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: Cold Heat

Big fan of Putin, huh?


4 posted on 03/21/2014 3:49:30 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
Exactly the opposite.

Putin's Russia uses or American tech to pump more oil and gas so that he can use that to rebuild his military and screw with Europe.

China, does a similar thing.

Eventually all that tech they are literally taking from willing US corporate investment will be used against us, directly, and indirectly.

This has been going on for decade now or more, and still willing corporate interests are lined up to get fleeced. Like lemmings.

5 posted on 03/21/2014 3:57:57 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Cold Heat

The corporate interests that are doing this are traitors. The US government that allows it is as well.


6 posted on 03/21/2014 4:08:51 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: freedomfiter2
Yeah, they should be, but that is how free capitalism works.

Yes, it's shameful, especially when China demands these companies share the tech as a condition to allowing them to invest in China.

What has been occurring over the past 3 years or so is that when they feel comfortable they they have extracted everything they can get, they change the rules and the US citizens are quietly replaced with Chinese Nationals. The US company will continue to get a dividend on their investment until something happens that the Chinese say breaks the contract.

Yet US investors are still clamoring for exposure to China and Russia as well.

To stop it the US would have to forbid investment in both countries.

For multiple reasons, some of them obvious, they won't do that. The politicians think that helping these emerging markets along will westernize them.

But the reality is that they are being used and/or manipulated.

7 posted on 03/21/2014 4:19:06 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Cold Heat

Then why did you say this was a good thing? Just curious.


8 posted on 03/21/2014 4:28:59 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Racehorse

If Putin trusts the Chinese he will wake up one morning with all of Russia east of the Urals gone


9 posted on 03/21/2014 4:29:18 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Racehorse

Obama tied himself in knots to explain why it was a good thing to establish relations with enemies (Al-Qaeda and the Taliban) but is ready to turn his back on Russia?

Stupid move that will lead to bigger problems down the road.


10 posted on 03/21/2014 4:39:40 AM PDT by Iron Munro (The future ain't what it use to be -- Yogi Berra)
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To: Racehorse
Russia will get its comeuppance when it realizes that dealing with the Asian East is not as pleasant and easy as dealing with the European West.

Basic concepts in negotiations in the West have a Christian underpinning and two millennia of moderating Christian influence--whether or not the actors were Christian, whether or not their actions were Christian. The influence was still present. It shaped Europe.

The East never had that. It was "I'm dominant--you're submissive, the vassal."

Europe is a continent where all the nations are of similar size and roughly similar strength. They HAD to learn to get along. It took 2,000 years, but it's largely been done.

Asia--dominated by China--has never HAD to learn that. China has no neighbor of equivalent size. It hasn't had to learn anything about getting along at a negotiating table and showing genuine respect for a bordering neighbor...and they RESENT having to treat Russia and the USA as equals, let me assure you.

So...when Russia burns its bridges to the West, as they have done, do not think they'll turn East and get a "sweet deal" for their oil. They won't. China is watching, and smiling. China will see Russia's current situation, and realize Russia can no longer sell to TWO buyers, East and West, and now only has one buyer: East.

And China's negotiators will hold to even lower prices they are willing to pay Russia for their natural gas, because Russia will have no other buyers to sell to....

Sauron

11 posted on 03/21/2014 4:51:17 AM PDT by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: sauron
Oh, further: If Russia does sell its oil to China, it's only a case of Bear feeding Dragon.

Not in the Bear's interest. Dragons, after all, do eat Bears.

Russia and China fought a border war in 1969. Skirmish, really, not a full-on war. China still claims an area the size of Alaska along the Amur-Ussuri rivers, and that area is listed on Chinese maps has having been taken by "unjust and unequal treaty" during the time of the Czars and the Mandarins.

So they signed a 50-year "Treaty of Friendship" (how appropriately communist, eh?) with China. Guess the solved it, eh? Methinks we need a similar treaty with Canada...oh, wait, REAL friends don't need to affirm their relational status via a signed document, now, do they? It's "peace in our time" Soviet-style.

The Dragon has been biding its time, building, stealing tech from Russia and the USA and Europe and Japan and...ad nauseam.

Russia is going to lose Siberia. Everything East of the Urals. Everyone knows this, especially the Russians. Russian young people have been leaving Siberia in droves for decades, now, further underpopulating that region.

Chinese poachers are all over Lake Baikal. Russian game wardens can't keep up.

Chinese immigrant communities--one, in it was either Irkutsk or Novosibirsk--actually set up their own telephone exchange atop the Russian one. It was only discovered as Russian crews performed maintenance on their lines, they traced the other ones and found the immigrant community had made their own phone exchange using the structure of the Russian one (and pocketed the money, of course). How very stereotypically innovatively and deviously Chinese of 'em! (Gotta love that!)

No, let Russia turn East, and get Eaten.

Sauron

12 posted on 03/21/2014 5:03:29 AM PDT by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: Racehorse
The world is his Sudentenland.


13 posted on 03/21/2014 5:05:58 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: sauron
That said...and I can't help but think "Gog and Magog," of course, it fits right in.

God help us.

14 posted on 03/21/2014 5:06:44 AM PDT by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: Racehorse

Wow...I said this was what is going to happen. As the West levies their petty sanctions against Russia...Russia says they don’t “need” us and those pipelines in the Ukraine? They get shut-off! Now that is what I call one harsh sanction against Obama’s hubris.

Some here want to make fun of Putin etc., but it is naïve to underestimate this man. None of what he is doing has not be carefully and strategically planned. The global shift is on and America & Europe is far behind in the battle plans.

So Russia turns to the East...what then of our China imports and debt? What then if China sanctions America and cuts off food imports? Forget the “electronics” end of things, do you realize how much food we actually import? How much we export to China for processing because we CAN’T process it here due to any number of regulatory factors?

While these events are worrisome and I believe the 0bama regime will epically fail at this chess game, one must admire the game being played, by master player Putin.

So the question becomes how does Putin and the Muslims fit together?


15 posted on 03/21/2014 5:24:07 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: sauron

America must be made small on the world stage in order for Gog to rise. Are we watching prophecy? It sure does feel like it, no?

Just for fun, if you’d like to consider it, many do not see America in Revelations. Some think America is not affected, but that is not what the Bible teaches about the end of days. I think the Bible appears silent as America must be made small. And boy do we feel small lately? It is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

That said, reread Revelations and search out the term ‘eagle’ in Revelations. If Magog, Dragons, and serpents are countries...as many ascribe too. Who is the Eagle of Revelations?


16 posted on 03/21/2014 5:35:15 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: EBH

“So the question becomes how does Putin and the Muslims fit together?”

Better question. Why did the Chinese abstain rather than cast a veto?

Putin’s Russia has a violent history with both Islamic and Chinese territories . . . spanning centuries. Why would they trust the Russians?

Money? How much?


17 posted on 03/21/2014 11:19:52 AM PDT by Racehorse
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To: Racehorse

“The underlying message from the head of Russia’s biggest oil company, Rosneft, was clear: If Europe and the United States isolate Russia, Moscow will look East for new business, energy deals, military contracts and political alliances.”

Notwithstanding the current news , this started years ago.
In 2012, the company Transneft completed a $23 billion pipeline to transport oil to China and recently approved plans to expand it. Gazprom hopes to sign a long-term deal with China in May that will require it to build a gas pipeline costing some $50 billion.
Rosneft is developping its LNG projects focusing on Japan and China.
Moscow will also sign contracts on the sale of the Sukhoi Su-35 fighter to China.

http://rt.com/op-edge/russia-switches-to-brics-sanctions-357/


18 posted on 03/21/2014 11:36:33 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: sauron

“Russia will get its comeuppance when it realizes that dealing with the Asian East is not as pleasant and easy as dealing with the European West.”

Russia has been dealing with China long before the West. It started in the 50ies.


19 posted on 03/21/2014 11:43:41 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: EBH

“As the West levies their petty sanctions against Russia...Russia says they don’t “need” us and those pipelines in the Ukraine? They get shut-off!”

In the long run, economical sanctions don’t work.

We only have to look back at the end of the 80ies, when Reagan convinced Saudi Arabia to open the tabs and flood the market with cheap oil. It hurt Yeltsin’s Russia then. In 1995 Russia made some $40 billion from oil export. It makes now over $400 billion a year.
Besides Russia is the first natural gas exporter in the world, which brings in another $160 billion a year.

Meanwhile Germany and Japan have abandonned the nuclear energy and rely heavily on gas imports.
Germany increased its import of Russia gas from 26% to 40% last year. Japan spent some $70 billion on gas import last year.
In Europe fraking is forbidden by the EU regulations, so the continental countries have no other choice than relying on Russian natural gas from 70 to 100% of their energy needs. Battered Ukraine depends also on Russian gas at 66%.

I really don’t see in the short run Europe committing economic suicide, just to please Obama and his Clowns United team.


20 posted on 03/21/2014 12:10:53 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Racehorse

China may turn to Russia for cheap labor


21 posted on 03/21/2014 12:14:01 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Racehorse

“Why did the Chinese abstain rather than cast a veto?”

Because one veto is enough.


22 posted on 03/21/2014 12:15:02 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Jimmy Valentine
Gorby trusted the West and had waken up one morning with all Warsaw pact countries + Baltia gone to NATO
23 posted on 03/22/2014 7:23:54 PM PDT by Cossak
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To: sauron
Russia is China's neighbor of equivalent size for last 300 years and Russia's history demonstrates that China is much better neighbor than West. In last 20 years West made big investments in alternative to Russian sources of hydrocarbon fuel so Russia has no choice but diversify buyers. Besides China is well aware that it is next in the list of West's enemies and has no chances to survive alone.
24 posted on 03/22/2014 7:55:12 PM PDT by Cossak
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To: Marguerite
No, before WWI. Kharbin town was founded by Russians and big Orthodox church is there from those years. In 1945 Soviet Army defeated Japan Kwantung army and Chinamen remember that. Japans murdered about 20 mln Chinamen, they conducted experiments on bacteriological weapons on China people. There is memorial to Soviet pilots on central square of Changchoon town, old China capital. After WWII Soviet Union made big investments in China industry. Was in Suifenghe town in February, they demonstrated on TV old Soviet films in hotel where I stayed.
25 posted on 03/22/2014 8:22:53 PM PDT by Cossak
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To: Cossak

You’re right, but I was talking about the post-war commercial exchange period.


26 posted on 03/23/2014 1:14:33 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite
....”Gazprom hopes to sign a long-term deal with China in May”....

My understanding too....and Deal was struck weeks before Crimea as Putin no doubt anticipated the sanctions. China agreed to buy any oil lost from Ukraine in however they plays out....and this at market price.

I think Michele's trip is baloney.....it's to attempt to put China in a holding pattern til Obama gets his world tour done...They knew Putin is meeting with China in May. It's not been a secret.

IMO the Nation leaders are simply accommodating Obama but not exactly paying him much attention overall. Statement made at EC Brussels was stunning..” There are obvious crisis where USA will not be involved”.....they simply no longer see the USA as the leader on the World Stage.

27 posted on 03/23/2014 1:35:50 AM PDT by caww
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To: Marguerite
FYI.....Interesting and to keep eye on...Pro-Russians In Donestk today Sat. 3/22/14


28 posted on 03/23/2014 1:39:41 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Pro-Russians In Donestk today Sat. 3/22/14

I am not surprised in the least. Donetsk has always been a Russian dominated region. Besides, their economic survival, as well as Lugansk and Kharkov regions, rely on the exchanges and ties with Russia. Ukraina's divide can be seen on any kind of map: poltical, ethnic, language, or religion.


29 posted on 03/23/2014 2:10:13 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite; sauropod

Lots of interesting perspectives in your posts on this thread.

Thanks to both of you.


30 posted on 03/23/2014 3:02:41 AM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: exit82
Thank you. Just good for a laugh, old Crimean Cossaks in Sevastopol, celebrating the return to Russia


31 posted on 03/23/2014 3:09:33 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: exit82

See also this post:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3136137/posts?page=94#94


32 posted on 03/23/2014 3:21:15 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

LOL!

That seriously needs to go viral.


33 posted on 03/23/2014 3:46:27 AM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: exit82

You have me conflated with sauron.

His posts do bring an interesting perspective to the discussion.

I had heard that America is not represented in Revelations. Time to go back and re-read it.


34 posted on 03/23/2014 5:16:53 AM PDT by sauropod (Fat Bottomed Girl: "What difference, at this point, does it make?")
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To: sauropod; sauron
You have me conflated with sauron.

His posts do bring an interesting perspective to the discussion.

Well, I did, didn't I!

Thanks for being a good sport about it. I have to try to be more alert at 6 am!

sauron--please see post #30, which was meant for you.

35 posted on 03/23/2014 11:09:47 AM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

China thinks of the US as a nuisance more than anything.

To them, Russia is a mortal enemy. They may cooperate for awhile. But China keeps their friends close and their enemies even closer.

China is thinking long-term here.


36 posted on 03/23/2014 11:12:35 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: EBH

So the question becomes how does Putin and the Muslims fit together?


They don’t.


37 posted on 03/23/2014 1:35:53 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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