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A Warning from History: The Fatal Sequence and How Democracies Are Destroyed
memorytyper.com ^ | Fraser & Disraeli

Posted on 03/22/2014 12:54:00 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship.

- Attributed to Alexander Tytler Fraser

The Fatal Sequence

The world's greatest democratically governed civilizations have followed this sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From great courage to abundance;

From abundance to selfishness;

From selfishness to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to fear

From fear to dependency;

From dependency back into bondage;"

- Attributed to Benjamin Disraeli


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: fall; freedom; republics
I wonder where we are on Disraeli's list...I think probably, as a nation, "complacency to apathy". Of course there are already those who in the "dependence" stage, and there are SOME who are showing "great courage"...but as a whole, we are on the path to "apathy"...

I pray for a spiritual awakening that turns the United States to God.

1 posted on 03/22/2014 12:54:00 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

While we’re at it, how about we bring back jobs to America?

A generation ago, America was on top.

Since then, we’ve sent millions of American jobs to China.

Now we’re troubled. We are approaching 18 billion dollars in debt, and that is accelerating.

I see a pattern.

I liked it, when America was where American jobs were at.

America needs to bring back jobs.


2 posted on 03/22/2014 12:56:32 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network ( http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: SoFloFreeper
Thanks for posting!

We are on the brink.

3 posted on 03/22/2014 12:57:17 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed them like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Sorry that was a typo:

Now approaching 18 trillion dollars in debt.


4 posted on 03/22/2014 1:00:11 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network ( http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: SoFloFreeper

So much for democracies, but what does it say of republics?


5 posted on 03/22/2014 1:01:11 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: SoFloFreeper
Alexis de Tocqueville picked up the theme and put it into more fashionable terms and expanded on it. He even had some gems of his own. Don't know if he is paraphrasing another philosopher. “Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.” ― Alexis de Tocqueville http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/465.Alexis_de_Tocqueville
6 posted on 03/22/2014 1:07:22 PM PDT by Usagi_yo (Standardization is an Evolutionary dead end.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

“While we’re at it, how about we bring back jobs to America?

A generation ago, America was on top.”

All we have to do to make that happen is bomb Europe and Japan back to the stone age. Today we might have to add China to that list.

That is the only thing that put us on top, and the only way we would be again.


7 posted on 03/22/2014 1:18:10 PM PDT by Beagle8U (Unions are an Affirmative Action program for Slackers! .)
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To: SoFloFreeper
A slightly different version I've run across:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty
to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
(no fear)
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage

8 posted on 03/22/2014 1:19:45 PM PDT by Tellurian (Obama's allegiance is to his "father's" dreams)
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To: SoFloFreeper
The world (civilization) is about to get another sad example of a nation's fall from a state of liberty and opportunity into the throes of misery and tyranny--unless American citizens rediscover the ideas underlying their Constitution and discard the counterfeit ideas of so-called "progressive" thought!

For too long in America, we have called Democrats "liberals," when, in fact, those who have dominated that Party and its leaders have stood for ideas which are the antithesis of "classical liberalism."

Now, and for the past several decades they have morphed into and now identify themselves as "progressives," a term which, in itself is misleading. The so-called "progressive" philosophy is, in fact, most regressive, for it advocates failed ideas which lead to tyranny and oppression, not to freedom, opportunity, productivity, and plenty. "Progressive" ideas are more aptly described by the word "socialist."

In the following quotations from Churchill, we can see thoughts of his on the subject dating from 1908 to the 1950's. Much of what is happening in America today is described within these words:

"When I see the present Socialist Government denouncing capitalism in all its forms, mocking with derision and contempt the tremendous free enterprise capitalist system on which the mighty production of the United States is founded, I cannot help feeling that as a nation we are not acting honorably or even honestly." - Winston Churchill, Woodford Green, July 10, 1948.

"We shall not allow the advance of society and economic well-being of the nation to be regulated and curtailed by the pace of the weakest bretheren among us. Proper incentives must be offered and full freedom given to the strong to use their strength in the commonweal. Initiative, enterprise, thrift, domestic foresight, contrivance, good housekeeping and natural ability must reap their just reward. On any other plan the population of this island will sink by disastrous and agonizing stages to a far lower standard of life and two-thirds of its present numbers." - Winston Churchill, speech, Blenheim Palace, August 4, 1947.

"The difference between what is seen and what is not seen was often noticed by the old economists. What is not seen is the infinite variety of individual transactions and decisions which, in a civilized society, within the framework of just and well-known laws, insure the advantage not only of the individual concerned, but of the community, and provide that general body of well-being constituting the wealth of nations. All this is blotted out by an over-riding State control, however imposing some of its manifestations may be. It is the vital creative impulse that that I deeply fear the doctrines and policy of the socialist Government have destroyed, or are rapidly destroying, in our national life. Nothing that they can plan and order and rush around enforcing will take its place. They have broken the mainspring, and until we get a new one the watch will not go." - Winston Churchill, speech, House of Commons, October 28, 1947.

"It is in the interest of the wage-earner to have many other alternatives open to him than service under one all-powerful employer called the State. He will be in a better position to bargain collectively and production will be more abundant; there will be more for all and more freedom for all when the wage earner is able, in the large majority of cases, to choose and change his work, and deal with a private employer who, like himself, is subject to the ordinary pressures of life and, like himself, is dependent upon his personal thrift, ingenuity and good-housekeeping." - Winston Churchill, speech, Blackpool, October 5, 1946

"Liberalism (classical liberalism) has its own history and its own tradition. Socialism has its own formulas and aims. Socialism seeks to pull down wealth; Liberalism seeks to raise up poverty. Socialism would destroy private interests; Liberalism would preserve private interests in the only way in which they can be safely and justly preserved, namely, by reconciling them with public right. Socialism would kill enterprise; Liberalism would rescue enterprise from the trammels of privilege and preference. Socialism assails the pre-eminence of the individual; Liberalism seeks, and shall seek more in the future, to build up a minimum standard for the mass. Socialism exalts the rule; Liberalism exalts the man. Socialism attacks capital; Liberalism attacks monopoly." - Winston Churchill, Kinnaird Hall, Dundee, May 14, 1908.

"The British nation now has to make one of the most momentous choices in its history. That choice is between two ways of life: between individual liberty and State domination: between concentration of ownership in the hands of the State and the extension of a property-owning democracy; between a policy of increasing restraint and a policy of liberating energy and ingenuity: between a policy of levelling down and a policy of finding opportunities for all to rise upwards from a basic standard." - Winston Churchill, speech in Woodford, England, January 28, 1950.

"It is curious that, while in the days of my youth I was much reproached with inconsistency and being changeable, I am now scolded for adhering to the same views I had early in life and even of repeating passages from speeches which I made long before most of you were born. Of course the world moves on and we dwell in a constantly changing climate of opinion. But the broad principles and truths of wise and sane political actions do not necessarily alter with the changing moods of a democratic electorate. Not everything changes. Two and two still make four, and I could give you many other instances which go to prove that all wisdom is not new wisdom." - Winston Churchill, speech, Bele vue, Manchester, December 6, 1947.

"It is not Parliament that should rule; it is the people who should rule through Parliament." - Winston Churchill, speech, House of Commons. November 11, 1947.

"We have to combat the wolf of socialism, and we shall be able to do it far more effectively as a pack of hounds than as a flock of sheep." - Winston Churchill, speech, 1937.

:Athough it is now put forward in the main by people who have a good grounding in the Liberalism and Radicalism of the early part of this century, there can be no doubt that Socialism is inseparably interwoven with Totalitarianism and the abject worship of the State. It is not alone that property, in all its forms, is struck at, but that liberty, in all its forms, is challenged by the fundamental conceptions of Socialism." - Winston Churchill, B.B.C radio address, June 4, 1945.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill, House of Commons, October 22, 1945.

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy." - Winston Churchill, Perth, May 28, 1948.

"I do not wonder that British youth is in revolt against the morbid doctrine that nothing matters but the equal sharing of miseries: that what used to be called the submerged tenth can only be rescued by bringing the other nine-tenths down to their level; against the folly that it is better that everyone should have half rations rather than that any by their exertions, or ability, should earn a second helping." - Winston Churchill, London, June 22, 1948.

"Socialism is based on the idea of an all-powerful State which owns everything, which plans everything, which distributes everything, and thus through its politicians and officials decides the daily life of the individual citizen." - Winston Churchill, London, January 21, 1950.

"The British and Americans do not war with races or governments as such. Tyranny, external or internal, is our foe whatever trappings and disguises it wears, whatever language it speaks, or perverts." - Winston Churchill, Speech, Dorchester Hotel, London, July 4, 1953.

"You may try to destroy wealth, and find that all you have done is to increase poverty." - Winston Churchill, speech, House of Commons. March 12, 1947.

"Nor should it be supposed as you would imagine, to read some of the Left-wing newspaper, that all Americans are multi-millionaires of Wall Street. If they were all multi-millionaires that would be no reason for condemning a system which has produced such material results.: - Winston Churchill, speech, Royal Albert Hall, London. April 21, 1948.

"Rich men, although valuable to the revenue, are not vital to a healthy state of society, but a society in which rich men are got rid of, from motives of jealousy, is not a healthy state." - Winston Churchill, speech, House of Commons, April 24, 1950.

Americans should hold fast to the Founders' ideas of liberty instead of allowing its leaders to plunge it into European-style socialism.

From the Liberty Fund Library is "A Plea for Liberty: An Argument Against Socialism and Socialistic Legislation," edited by Thomas Mackay (1849 - 1912), Chapter 1, excerpted final paragraphs from Edward Stanley Robertson's essay:

"I have suggested that the scheme of Socialism is wholly incomplete unless it includes a power of restraining the increase of population, which power is so unwelcome to Englishmen that the very mention of it seems to require an apology. I have showed that in France, where restraints on multiplication have been adopted into the popular code of morals, there is discontent on the one hand at the slow rate of increase, while on the other, there is still a 'proletariat,' and Socialism is still a power in politics.
I.44
"I have put the question, how Socialism would treat the residuum of the working class and of all classes—the class, not specially vicious, nor even necessarily idle, but below the average in power of will and in steadiness of purpose. I have intimated that such persons, if they belong to the upper or middle classes, are kept straight by the fear of falling out of class, and in the working class by positive fear of want. But since Socialism purposes to eliminate the fear of want, and since under Socialism the hierarchy of classes will either not exist at all or be wholly transformed, there remains for such persons no motive at all except physical coercion. Are we to imprison or flog all the 'ne'er-do-wells'?
I.45
"I began this paper by pointing out that there are inequalities and anomalies in the material world, some of which, like the obliquity of the ecliptic and the consequent inequality of the day's length, cannot be redressed at all. Others, like the caprices of sunshine and rainfall in different climates, can be mitigated, but must on the whole be endured. I am very far from asserting that the inequalities and anomalies of human society are strictly parallel with those of material nature. I fully admit that we are under an obligation to control nature so far as we can. But I think I have shown that the Socialist scheme cannot be relied upon to control nature, because it refuses to obey her. Socialism attempts to vanquish nature by a front attack. Individualism, on the contrary, is the recognition, in social politics, that nature has a beneficent as well as a malignant side. The struggle for life provides for the various wants of the human race, in somewhat the same way as the climatic struggle of the elements provides for vegetable and animal life—imperfectly, that is, and in a manner strongly marked by inequalities and anomalies. By taking advantage of prevalent tendencies, it is possible to mitigate these anomalies and inequalities, but all experience shows that it is impossible to do away with them. All history, moreover, is the record of the triumph of Individualism over something which was virtually Socialism or Collectivism, though not called by that name. In early days, and even at this day under archaic civilisations, the note of social life is the absence of freedom. But under every progressive civilisation, freedom has made decisive strides—broadened down, as the poet says, from precedent to precedent. And it has been rightly and naturally so.
I.46
"Freedom is the most valuable of all human possessions, next after life itself. It is more valuable, in a manner, than even health. No human agency can secure health; but good laws, justly administered, can and do secure freedom. Freedom, indeed, is almost the only thing that law can secure. Law cannot secure equality, nor can it secure prosperity. In the direction of equality, all that law can do is to secure fair play, which is equality of rights but is not equality of conditions. In the direction of prosperity, all that law can do is to keep the road open. That is the Quintessence of Individualism, and it may fairly challenge comparison with that Quintessence of Socialism we have been discussing. Socialism, disguise it how we may, is the negation of Freedom. That it is so, and that it is also a scheme not capable of producing even material comfort in exchange for the abnegations of Freedom, I think the foregoing considerations amply prove."
EDWARD STANLEY ROBERTSON

9 posted on 03/22/2014 1:24:36 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Man, you really have a one track mind.
Bring back the Constitution and you will bring back your jobs.


10 posted on 03/22/2014 1:54:10 PM PDT by 5th MEB (Progressives in the open; --- FIRE FOR EFFECT!!)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

No problem.. I’ll write a check and pay it off. Trust me, my money is as good as the governments


11 posted on 03/22/2014 1:55:14 PM PDT by maddog55 (I'd be Pro-Choice if we could abort liberals.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

If we organize and vote, a judge quickly overturns the result if we don’t vote the right way. This does not happen to the left. The media reports, stresses, and repeats what benefits the same side, leftism.

We have no legitimate ballot box and the judiciary, bureaucracy, media, education establishment, unions and police rule and support one side. Ours is never allowed to win with the exception of a few politicians who turn out to be Judases.

Apathy is all there is left, besides faith in God, living our lives, and supporting one another. But God remains the supreme power.


12 posted on 03/22/2014 2:02:01 PM PDT by Luke21
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To: maddog55

Freedom isn’t free. You got to pay the price, you got to sacrifice to keep your liberty.
People just don’t want to pay the price anymore—they want their free Obama Phone.


13 posted on 03/22/2014 2:02:09 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Olog-hai
So much for democracies, but what does it say of republics?

You mean like the Roman Republic?

It seems like we're one fire away from hearing a Nero fiddle tune.

14 posted on 03/22/2014 2:04:14 PM PDT by seowulf (Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum. Cogito.---Ambrose Bierce)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Just turn to any random TV channel at anytime and you’ll know where we are.


15 posted on 03/22/2014 2:05:17 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Olog-hai
"So much for democracies, but what does it say of republics?"

Ben Franklyn, when asked what he had achieved replied, "A Republic, if we can keep it," and we haven't kept it. We are now as close to a complete "Democracy" as a country can get.

Our Founding Fathers knew a Democracy was nothing more than "Mob Rule" and they went to great lengths to prevent our Representative Republic from becoming one. However, each preventive step our Founding Fathers made in our electoral process to prevent Mob Rule/Democracy were one by one eliminated by the Democrat Party until we now have an almost perfect Mob Rule/Democracy.

Initially, our Republic was preserved through very limited voting rights. In order to have voting rights, a citizen had to have been a white, male property owner, and the U.S. House of Representatives was elected by this small pool of voters.

To further limit the possibility of "Mob Rule," the U.S. Senate was to be elected by the State Senates and not by the same pool of voters as was the U.S House.

To even further limit the possibility of "Mob Rule," the President wouldn't be elected by the same pool of voters as was the House of Representatives but would be elected by an "Electoral College" that was elected by these voters.

As you can see, the only "Mob Rule" preventive measure still remaining in effect is the Electoral College that prevents the President from being elected by a "Popular" vote, and the Democrats keep trying to undo that one.

16 posted on 03/22/2014 2:16:55 PM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war,and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Never heard this ubiquitous quote assigned to Disraeli before.

But that’s not important right now.

Can anybody give me even one example of a “democratically governed civilization” that followed this sequence in any meaningful way?


17 posted on 03/22/2014 2:23:38 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: reed13

Bfl


18 posted on 03/22/2014 2:39:30 PM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothings)
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To: Sherman Logan

“Can anybody give me even one example of a “democratically governed civilization” that followed this sequence in any meaningful way?”

You should be able to find your answer here:

http://johnkeane.net/36/topics-of-interest/democracy-a-short-history


19 posted on 03/22/2014 2:48:20 PM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war,and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: 5th MEB

Well yes, we are rapidly approaching 18 trillion dollars national debt.

We have a (serious) issue on our hands.

We need to bring back American jobs. Now.


20 posted on 03/22/2014 2:56:21 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network ( http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: SoFloFreeper

bm


21 posted on 03/22/2014 2:59:12 PM PDT by Vision (Living in beauty)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

And that’s exactly what Nancy Pelosi is promising to do! (sarc)


22 posted on 03/22/2014 4:16:52 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

“I wonder where we are on Disraeli’s list...I think probably, as a nation, “complacency to apathy”..

Ding, ding! We have a winner.

The day we can get six conservatives off their fat butts to attend a local schoolboard meeting to throw commie teachers out of neighborhood schools is the day that we take the first step to win back our country.

Most conservatives are Mammon worshippers who care more about piling up dollars than securing liberty for their children. They’re too damn dumb to realize that the leftists in their local government will steal that stash through taxation and private property confiscation.

The Founders left a blueprint to fight tyranny, and it starts with Committees of Safety.

Look it up.


23 posted on 03/22/2014 4:26:13 PM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: Beagle8U

All we need to do is cut corporate taxes and jobs will come back to the US.


24 posted on 03/22/2014 4:54:38 PM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Machiavelli accounts for this ‘repetitive’ oscillation by arguing that virtù (valor and political effectiveness) produces peace, peace brings idleness (ozio), idleness disorder, and disorder rovina (ruin). In turn, from rovina springs order, from order virtù, and from this, glory and good fortune. Machiavelli, as had the ancient Greek historian Thucydides, saw human nature as remarkably stable - steady enough for the formulation of rules of political behavior.

Machiavelli wrote in his Discorsi: “Whoever considers the past and the present will readily observe that all cities and all peoples...ever have been animated by the same desires and the same passions; so that it is easy, by diligent study of the past, to foresee what is likely to happen in the future in any republic, and to apply those remedies that were used by the ancients, or not finding any that were employed by them, to devise new ones from the similarity of events.”

“That no free government, or the blessing of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue, and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.” George Mason, Virginia Declaration of Rights, Section XV [1776] (see Machivelli— virtù)

(Someone here on FR posted this. I copied it to my quotes file. )


25 posted on 03/22/2014 7:22:08 PM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: DJ Taylor

The Electoral College is now the set of 538 dedicated party activists who vote as rubberstamps for presidential candidates. In the current presidential election system, 48 states award all of their electors to the winners of their state.

The National Popular Vote bill would end the disproportionate attention and influence of the “mob” in the current handful of closely divided battleground states, such as Ohio and Florida, while the “mobs” of the vast majority of states are ignored.
9 states determined the 2012 election.
10 of the original 13 states are politically irrelevant in presidential campaigns now.
24 of the 27 lowest population states, that are non-competitive are ignored, in presidential elections.
4 out of 5 Americans were ignored in the 2012 presidential election. After being nominated, Obama visited just eight closely divided battleground states, and Romney visited only 10. These 10 states accounted for 98% of the $940 million spent on campaign advertising.

With the current state-by-state winner-take-all system of awarding electoral votes (not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but since enacted by 48 states), it could only take winning a bare plurality of popular votes in only the 11 most populous states, containing 56% of the population of the United States, for a candidate to win the Presidency with a mere 23% of the nation’s votes!

The current system does not provide some kind of check on the “mobs.” There have been 22,991 electoral votes cast since presidential elections became competitive (in 1796), and only 17 have been cast for someone other than the candidate nominated by the elector’s own political party. 1796 remains the only instance when the elector might have thought, at the time he voted, that his vote might affect the national outcome. Since 1796, the Electoral College has had the form, but not the substance, of the deliberative body envisioned by the Founders. The electors now are dedicated party activists of the winning party who meet briefly in mid-December to cast their totally predictable rubberstamped votes in accordance with their pre-announced pledges.

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld state laws guaranteeing faithful voting by presidential electors (because the states have plenary power over presidential electors).


26 posted on 03/23/2014 10:49:23 AM PDT by mvymvy
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To: DJ Taylor

Unable to agree on any particular method, the Founding Fathers left the choice of method for selecting presidential electors exclusively to the states by adopting the language contained in section 1 of Article II of the U.S. Constitution— “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . .” The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as “plenary” and “exclusive.”

The National Popular Vote bill preserves the Electoral College and state control of elections. It changes the way electoral votes are awarded in the Electoral College. The candidate with the most votes would win, as in virtually every other election in the country.

Under National Popular Vote, every voter, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in every presidential election. Every vote would be included in the state counts and national count.

When states with a combined total of at least 270 Electoral College votes enact the bill, the candidate with the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC would get the needed majority of 270+ Electoral College votes from the enacting states. The bill would thus guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes.

The Republic is not in any danger from National Popular Vote.
National Popular Vote has nothing to do with pure democracy. Pure democracy is a form of government in which people vote on policy initiatives directly. With National Popular Vote, the United States would still be a republic, in which citizens continue to elect the President by a majority of Electoral College votes by states, to represent us and conduct the business of government.


27 posted on 03/23/2014 10:51:19 AM PDT by mvymvy
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