Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Russia Suspended from G8
SABreaking ^ | 3-25-2014 | Natalie Simon

Posted on 03/25/2014 12:48:10 AM PDT by tcrlaf

The Group of 7 Nations (G7), formerly Group of 8 (G8) has suspended Russia from the alliance of leading industrialised nations, said the Whitehouse on Monday. This in response to Russia’s annexation of Crimea, formerly part of Ukraine.

Leaders of the United States, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United Kingdom on Monday met at the Hague in the Netherlands where the group expressed their support for Ukraine’s sovereignty.

“We remind Russia of its international obligations, and its responsibilities including those for the world economy. Russia has a clear choice to make,” said the group in a statement on Monday. “Diplomatic avenues to de-escalate the situation remain open, and we encourage the Russian Government to take them.”

(Excerpt) Read more at sabreakingnews.co.za ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Russia
KEYWORDS: alreadyposted; crimea; g7; g8; russia; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; yuliatymoshenko
The BIG QUESTION: What will China do now? It seems that China has the "Veto" on this, doesn't it. And they aren't even a member.

"But Russia has shrugged off the suspension, saying the G8 was never anything more than an informal club.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, also speaking from the Hague, said no-one can be expelled from the G8:

“Its raison d’etre was for deliberations between western industrialised countries and Russia, but there are other fora for that now… so if our western partners say there is no future for that format, then so be it. We are not clinging to that format,” the Guardian quoted him as saying."

1 posted on 03/25/2014 12:48:10 AM PDT by tcrlaf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

RELATED:
Russian standoff in ‘11th hour,’ says first post-Soviet Russian foreign minister

The standoff between Russia, Ukraine, and the West has reached the “eleventh hour,” Andrei Kozyrev, the first post-Soviet Russian foreign minister, told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour on Monday.

“The [stakes are] still very, very high,” he said. “Let me just remind whoever concerned that Russia is still [a] nuclear superpower. So the [stakes] might be life and death. And maybe sooner than somebody is thinking.”

“It’s [the] eleventh hour for Russians, and for anybody else, to reconsider.”
http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/24/russian-standoff-in-11th-hour-says-first-post-soviet-russian-foreign-minister/


2 posted on 03/25/2014 12:50:17 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

No cocktail party with the west? I’m sure they’re devastated.


3 posted on 03/25/2014 12:51:20 AM PDT by PaulCruz2016
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PaulCruz2016

Not sure what the Obama calculus is here...


4 posted on 03/25/2014 12:53:23 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

What exactly has the G-8 or G-7 ever done....to be noted in history books?

Other than meeting, mingling, sipping whiskey sours and talking up politics....there’s just not much to brag about.


5 posted on 03/25/2014 1:07:40 AM PDT by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

They’re still in good standing in BRICS - where they have a friendlier audience - that’s the group of emerging global economies - stands for Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

Russia is far from isolated.


6 posted on 03/25/2014 1:12:36 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop

The BRICS finally voted to fund the new world bank...stating that the current ones run by the UK/US are full of corruption. Why do the sheeple not hear about a new world bank? The answer seems pretty ominous.


7 posted on 03/25/2014 1:22:02 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

None will be going to war over Crimea or Ukraine.....at this juncture....But Russia’s not about ready to let Obama up for air, so grand standing on the heels of the Summit is just that.

Ukraine and Russia have already begun dialog at this summit.....the First since this crisis began.....Europe and the US have already told Ukraine they basically have to work out their country’s affairs.....and they will not be sending them Nato troops. Help them ..yes,...heck Obama sent military rations....and the EU blankets....But take Ukraine and their 35 Billion debt under their belt...no way. And they sure as heck aren’t going to pay for a war.

Besides, even if Ukraine were to fight on their own they’d lose, the head of their Military has already said only 6,000 of their troops are battle ready.

Ukraine is the greatest loser in this as the Eu and the US will protect the Nato member nations, but Ukraine is not a Member of Nato....through the corruption of their leaders failing to do much of anything with their military for years....they have little to fight with overall....even with help.

I fear for them if it’s war.......Libya and Syria come to mind. Too many deaths...too much blood...and look at both countries today...a wreck...and still fighting but Nato and the US pulled out.


8 posted on 03/25/2014 1:36:01 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop

More bad news for Ukraine......

French bank ‘BNP Paribas’ said Monday it plans to cut 1,600 jobs at its Ukrainian unit ‘UkrSibBank’ by 2015 due to political uncertainty in the country.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20140325/ukraine-french-bank-to-cut-jobs1600-


9 posted on 03/25/2014 1:42:47 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop

I was looking to the charts and ruble is actually gaining against dollar at about .3% daily since Crimean takeover. As for today it might be about 1pm in Moscow and dollar has lost more than 1% since opening in the morning.


10 posted on 03/25/2014 1:48:21 AM PDT by wetphoenix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: wetphoenix

A little counterintuitive, but a lot of times a strengthening currency is bad news.
China intentionally weakens theirs, as kind of economic warfare.
Russia has massive trade surplus so strengthening currency is probably more bad news for them, at least for their exports.


11 posted on 03/25/2014 2:03:40 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

The G8 is no big deal. The G20 is a little different. But still...it’s all about money and just like the UN, guess who always gets stuck with most of the bills.


12 posted on 03/25/2014 2:19:09 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Russia does not qualify to be a member of Gn, with n a single digit:
Russian export in 2012 was $524,564,991,000.
Top ten breakdown:
Mineral fuels including oil: $375,423,947,000 (71.6% of total exports)
Iron and steel: $22,601,664,000 (4.3%)
Fertilizers: $11,176,846,000 (2.1%)
Inorganic chemicals: $7,835,699,000 (1.5%)
Machinery: $7,609,061,000 (1.5%)
Aluminum: $7,281,329,000 (1.4%)
Wood: $6,731,569,000 (1.3%)
Cereals: $6,246,547,000 (1.2%)
Copper: $5,787,339,000 (1.1%)
Organic chemicals: $4,516,890,000 (0.9%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports/2350

This is a typical third world export mix heavily dependent on raw materials.

Compare this to South Korea with a total export of $548.8 billion in 2012 (i.e. larger than Russia)
Top ten breakdown:
Electronic equipment: $119,084,386,000 (21.7% of total exports)
Vehicles: $70,074,094,000 (12.8%)
Machinery: $58,979,883,000 (10.8%)
Mineral fuels including oil: $57,492,603,000 (10.5%)
Ships, boats and other floating structures: $37,828,429,000 (6.9%)
Optical, technical and medical apparatus: $37,611,611,000 (6.9%)
Plastics: $28,381,150,000 (5.2%)
Iron and steel: $25,375,017,000 (4.6%)
Organic chemicals: $23,284,736,000 (4.3%)
Iron or steel products: $12,467,431,000 (2.3%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/south-koreas-top-10-exports/2302

The Russians do not know(?) that their export, without the raw materials, is only in the order of $50 billion !


13 posted on 03/25/2014 2:38:20 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

This will get out of hand and we will be unlikely to retain the dollar as the world’s reserve currency.

When the dollar loses it’s status as reserve currency/petrodollar our economy is toast.

There is no law of nature that dictates that petroleum accounts must be settled in dollars.

We might wind up with little gold, scant US production of real goods... just lots of fiat dollars worth nearly nothing.


14 posted on 03/25/2014 3:10:36 AM PDT by Bobalu (Happiness is a fast ISR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: caww

“but Ukraine is not a Member of Nato”

Although it is true that the Ukraine is not a full Member of NATO alliance, the Ukraine is a member of the NATO Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council (EAPC):

[Quote]
NATO - North Atlantic Treaty Organization

NATO’s relations with Ukraine
The formal basis for NATO-Ukraine relations is the 1997 Charter on a Distinctive Partnership, which established the NATO-Ukraine Commission (NUC). Successive governments reinforced the political dialogue and practical cooperation between NATO and Ukraine. NATO supports a range of initiatives in Ukraine, while Ukraine contributes to NATO’s missions in Afghanistan and Kosovo, and in 2013 became the first partner country to contribute to the NATO-led counter-piracy operation Ocean Shield.

Following recent developments, on 27 February 2014, NATO Defence Ministers stated that “a sovereign, independent and stable Ukraine, firmly committed to democracy and the rule of law, is key to Euro-Atlantic security.” This echoes a key point made in the 1997 Charter. Defence Ministers added that “NATO Allies will continue to support Ukrainian sovereignty and independence, territorial integrity, democratic development, and the principle of inviolability of frontiers, as key factors of stability and security in Central and Eastern Europe and on the continent as a whole.”

At the Chicago Summit in May 2012, NATO leaders marked the 15th anniversary of the 1997 Charter and welcomed Ukraine’s commitment to enhancing political dialogue and interoperability with NATO, as well as its contributions to NATO-led operations. They also declared that NATO was ready to continue to develop its cooperation with Ukraine and assist with the implementation of reforms in the framework of the NATO-Ukraine Commission and the Annual National Programme. This continued support was reiterated by NATO Defence Ministers at their February 2014 gathering.

Dialogue and cooperation between NATO and Ukraine has become well-established in a wide range of areas. In particular, Ukraine has proved to be an important contributor to Euro-Atlantic security in the framework of NATO-led operations.

Another important aspect of relations is the support given by NATO and individual Allies for Ukraine’s ongoing reform efforts, particularly in the defence and security sectors. These reforms are vital for the country’s democratic development.

Framework for cooperation
The 1997 Charter on a Distinctive Partnership remains the basic foundation underpinning NATO-Ukraine relationsThe NATO-Ukraine Commission (NUC) directs cooperative activities and provides a forum for consultation between the Allies and Ukraine on security issues of common concern.

Joint working groups have been set up under the auspices of the NUC, to take work forward in specific areas. Of particular importance are the Political and Partnerships Committee in NUC format, which takes the leading role in developing annual national programmes and preparing high-level meetings of the NUC; and the Joint Working Group on Defence Reform, which facilitates consultation and practical cooperation in the priority area of defence and security sector reform.

Two NATO offices in Kyiv support cooperation on the ground in key areas. The NATO Information and Documentation Centre, established in 1997, supports efforts to inform the public about NATO’s activities and the benefits of NATO-Ukraine cooperation. The NATO Liaison Office, established in 1999, facilitates Ukraine’s participation in NATO’s Partnership for Peace programme and supports its reform efforts, by liaising with the Ministry of Defence and other Ukrainian agencies.

Annual National Programme (ANP)
The new ANP, established in 2009, has replaced the previous Annual Target Plans, which implemented the long-term objectives set out in the 2002 NATO-Ukraine Action Plan. It is composed of five chapters focusing on: political and economic issues; defence and military issues; resources; security issues; and legal issues.

The NUC assesses progress under the ANP annually.

The responsibility for implementation falls primarily on Ukraine, which is being urged to take the reform process forward vigorously in order to strengthen democracy, the rule of law, human rights and the market economy. Helping Ukraine achieve a far-reaching transformation of the defence and security sector is a key priority of NATO-Ukraine cooperation.

In 2010, Ukraine established a high-level Commission that would act as a coordination mechanism for cooperation with NATO. The commission includes National Coordinators for each of the five areas covered in the ANP.

Key areas of NATO-Ukraine cooperation
Consultations and cooperation between NATO and Ukraine cover a wide range of areas identified in the 1997 Charter and the 2002 Action Plan. These include peace-support operations, defence and security sector reform, military-to-military cooperation, armaments, civil emergency planning, science and environment, and public information.

Peace-support operations
Ukraine has a proven track record of actively contributing to Euro-Atlantic security by deploying troops to work together with peacekeepers from NATO and partner countries. Currently it is the only partner country contributing actively to all ongoing NATO-led operations and missions.

Deployments to the NATO-led operation in Kosovo have included a helicopter squadron, infantry companies, headquarters personnel and support staff. Currently, Ukraine contributes 130 personnel to the KFOR mission as part of the joint Polish-Ukrainian battalion, in the Multinational Task Force “East.”

The country is further contributing to international stability and the fight against terrorism by providing over-flight clearance for forces deployed in Afghanistan as part of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), or as part of the coalition forces under the US-led Operation Enduring Freedom. A transit agreement for the supply of ISAF was signed by Ukraine in April 2009. Ukrainian medical personnel have supported the Lithuanian-led Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) in Afghanistan since 2007, and the Polish PRT since 2010. Currently, Ukraine provides approximately two dozen military personnel to ISAF, including instructors to the NATO Training Mission in Afghanistan (NTM-A). It has also indicated its willingness to participate in the post-2014 follow-on mission to train and assist Afghan security forces. From March 2005, Ukraine also contributed officers to the NATO Training Mission in Iraq, which terminated in December 2011.

Moreover, Ukraine supports Operation Active Endeavour, NATO’s maritime operation in the Mediterranean aimed at helping deter, disrupt and protect against terrorism. Ukraine has contributed naval assets to the operation six times since 2007, most recently in November 2010. End 2013, it also contributed a frigate to NATO’s Operation Ocean Shield, which fights piracy off the coast of Somalia.

Ukraine is also the first partner country to contribute to the NATO Response Force (NRF). In 2010, Ukraine contributed a platoon specialised in nuclear, biological and chemical threats to the NRF. In 2011, Ukraine provided strategic airlift capabilities with their Antonov aircraft.

Defence and security sector reform
Ukraine’s cooperation with NATO in the area of defence and security sector reform is crucial to the ongoing transformation of Ukraine’s security posture and remains an essential part of its democratic transition.

Ukraine has sought NATO’s support in efforts to transform its Cold War legacy of massive conscript forces into smaller, professional and more mobile armed forces, able to meet the country’s security needs and to contribute actively to stability and security in the Euro-Atlantic area and beyond. Another overarching objective of NATO-Ukraine cooperation in this area is to strengthen democratic and civilian control of Ukraine’s armed forces and security institutions.

A Joint Working Group on Defence Reform (JWGDR), established in 1998, directs cooperation in the area of defence and security sector reform.

Ukraine’s drive to reform its defence and security sector also benefits from participation in the Partnership for Peace (PfP). In particular, the PfP Planning and Review Process enables joint goals to be developed for shaping force structures and capabilities to help develop Ukraine’s forces to be better able to work with NATO forces.

Capacity building and civil control
Of fundamental importance for Ukraine’s development as a democratic country is the strengthening of civil control over security and defence structures, including the intelligence sector, and improving the capacities of these structures.

As part of wider cooperation in this area, a number of specific initiatives have been taken in:
a professional development programme for civilians working in Ukraine’s defence and security institutions was launched in October 2005;
a NATO-Ukraine Working Group on Civil and Democratic Control of the Intelligence Sector was established in 2006;
a Partnership Network for Civil Society Expertise Development was launched in 2006 to promote the sharing of experience on the role of civil society in defence and security affairs among civil society groups and security practitioners in NATO member countries and Ukraine.

Retraining and resettling former military personnel
Various initiatives are underway to help Ukraine retrain and resettle former military personnel made redundant as a result of the progressive downsizing of the Ukrainian armed forces.

Expert help is being given to help Ukraine develop a comprehensive resettlement programme.

A NATO-funded retraining programme is providing linguistic and specialised professional courses for several hundred former military personnel per year. A project for the retraining and resettlement of redundant military personnel at a centre in Khmelnytskyi, western Ukraine, is being supported through a PfP Trust Fund. The Centre is the single largest provider of such assistance to retiring military personnel in Ukraine.

Destroying stockpiles of weapons and munitions
Individual Allies are also supporting the destruction of Ukraine’s stockpiles of anti-personnel mines, munitions and small arms and light weapons through PfP Trust Fund projects.

The first project involved the safe destruction of 400,000 landmines at a chemical plant in Donetsk, over a 15-month period in 2002-2003. It was the first step in destroying Ukraine’s stockpile of almost seven million anti-personnel mines.

A second project to destroy 133,000 tons of conventional munitions, 1.5 million small arms and 1000 man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) was launched in 2005. With projected costs of some €25 million, the project is to be carried out over an estimated twelve years. It is the largest demilitarization project of its kind ever to be undertaken, and will permanently increase Ukraine’s capacity to destroy surplus munitions.

Economic aspects of defence
Dialogue and exchanges of experience with experts also take place with Ukraine on the economic aspects of defence. Issues covered include security aspects of economic development and economic matters related to Euro-Atlantic integration, as well as topics specifically related to defence economics such as defence budgets, the management of defence resources and restructuring in the defence sector. Courses are also organised for Ukrainian staff, covering the whole budgetary process from financial planning to financial control.
Military-to-military cooperation
Helping Ukraine implement its defence reform objectives is also a key focus of military-to-military cooperation, complementing the work carried out under the JWGDR with military expertise.

Another important objective is to develop interoperability through a wide range of PfP activities and military exercises, sometimes hosted by Ukraine, which allow military personnel to train for peace-support operations and gain hands-on experience of working with forces from NATO countries and other partners.

Senior Ukrainian officers also regularly participate in courses at the NATO Defense College in Rome, Italy, and the NATO School at Oberammergau, Germany. Contacts with these establishments have been instrumental in setting up a new multinational faculty at the Ukrainian Defence Academy.

The military side has also taken the lead in developing a legal framework to enable NATO and Ukraine to further develop operational cooperation:

a PfP Status of Forces Agreement facilitates participation in PfP military exercises by exempting participants from passport and visa regulations and immigration inspection on entering or leaving the territory of the country hosting the event (entered into force in May 2000);
a Host Nation Support agreement addresses issues related to the provision of civil and military assistance to Allied forces located on, or in transit through, Ukrainian territory in peacetime, crisis or war (ratified in March 2004);
a Strategic Airlift agreement enables Ukraine to make a substantial contribution to NATO’s capability to move outsized cargo by leasing Antonov aircraft to Allied armed forces – an arrangement which also brings economic benefits to Ukraine (ratified in October 2006).
Armaments
Technical cooperation between Ukraine and NATO in the field of armaments focuses on enhancing interoperability between defence systems to facilitate Ukrainian contributions to joint peace support operations.

Cooperation in this area started when Ukraine joined the PfP programme and began participating in an increasing number of the armaments groups which meet under the auspices of the Conference of National Armaments Directors (CNAD) – a NATO senior body which identifies opportunities for cooperation between nations in defence equipment procurement processes, focusing in particular on technical standards.

A Joint Working Group on Armaments, which met for the first time in March 2004, is working towardincreased cooperation in this area.

Civil emergency planning
NATO and Ukraine have developed practical cooperation on civil emergency planning and disaster-preparedness, since the signing of a memorandum of understanding in 1997.

Ukraine’s western regions are prone to heavy flooding and NATO countries and other partners have provided assistance after severe floods in 1995, 1998 and 2001. A key focus of cooperation has therefore been to help Ukraine to prepare better for such emergencies and to manage their consequences more effectively.

PfP exercises also help develop plans and effective disaster-response capabilities to deal with other natural emergencies such as avalanches and earthquakes, or man-made accidents or terrorist attacks involving toxic spills or chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear agents – Ukraine hosted one such exercise in 2005. In 2010, Ukraine also sent a mobile rescue centre to Poland as part of an aid effort following flooding in the country.

Science and environment
Ukraine’s participation in NATO science programmes began in 1991 and intensified following an exchange of letters on cooperation in the area of science and the environment in 1999. Over the years, Ukraine has been second only to Russia in terms of NATO grants for scientific collaboration.

In addition to applying science to defence against terrorism and new threats, Ukraine’s priority areas for cooperation include information technologies, cell biology and biotechnology, new materials, the rational use of natural resources and cooperation focused on defence-related environmental problems.

NATO has also sponsored several projects to provide basic infrastructure for computer networking among Ukrainian research communities and to facilitate their access to the internet. Although the focus of past collaboration has been in the area of physical sciences, project proposals are now also being considered which deal with security issues from a social science perspective. For example, a new Trust Fund is being considered that will help remove and decontaminate military sites with stored radioactive waste.

A Joint Working Group on Scientific and Environmental Cooperation is supporting the further development of cooperation in this area.

Public information
It is important for the Ukrainian administration to inform the Ukrainian people about NATO-Ukraine relations and the benefits of cooperation in terms of Ukraine’s own reform programme. Many people in Ukraine still lack information regarding the role, activities and goals of the Alliance, and outdated Cold War stereotypes remain strong in the minds of some.

The Allies have offered to cooperate with the Ukrainian authorities in raising awareness about what NATO is today, and in better explaining the NATO-Ukraine relationship.

The NATO Information and Documentation Centre, based in Kyiv, is NATO’s principal public information facility, offering seminars and talks, as well as coordinating visits by NATO officials to Ukraine and representatives of Ukrainian civil society to NATO Headquarters in order to better illustrate the mechanisms behind the partnership.


15 posted on 03/25/2014 3:30:17 AM PDT by WhiskeyX ( provides a system for registering complaints about unfair broadcasters and the ability to request a)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Well the G7 nations are all debtor nations and the Gas Station Russian economy is perking along. Looks like the G7 is content to print funny money wile Russia reaps the real thing.


16 posted on 03/25/2014 3:32:05 AM PDT by x_plus_one (Islam Delenda Est)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: x_plus_one

Russia has a third world economy of about 2 Trillion, which is dwarfed by Western countries.

It’s all about Capital and the Capital is just beginning to flow out.

Russia has flexed its muscle and has choked itself. But hey, insert the muscled pictures of Vladimir here LOL.


17 posted on 03/25/2014 3:47:17 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith

Kewel site...


18 posted on 03/25/2014 5:13:35 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: WhiskeyX

Seems like they disarmed themselves and that’s, that...


19 posted on 03/25/2014 5:17:24 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

One less free posh hotel, do nothing political payback junket that Putin can hand out to his friends / cronies.

I’m sure that will get him to remove troops from Ukraine.


20 posted on 03/25/2014 5:22:23 AM PDT by Personal Responsibility (I'd use the /S tag but is it really necessary?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: caww
It does seem that what those sneaky coup enablers really wanted was a coup in western Ukraine so their bankers could control Crimea and other assets in eastern Ukraine. Without Crimea, all the EU would get is crybaby nazis in what should be an illegal coup government.

And Obama? He and Putin obviously don't like each other. And Obama's been outplayed again. So we've got Obama embracing government by coup instead of government by vote. And US "patriots" spewing cold war slogans.

21 posted on 03/25/2014 5:24:02 AM PDT by grania
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: grania

And Putin boot lickers attempting to justify annexation of sovereign countries.


22 posted on 03/25/2014 5:31:44 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr
There has been a lot of Russian, Crimean and Ukranian history posted these past few months, all of it well sourced. There's been a lot of rhetoric about how a coup is a legal government and a vote is illegal, but nothing of substance that supports Crimea and some other eastern areas being governed by a violent coup in Kiev.

The more I read about the basket case Ukraine, the more it makes sense to split the marriage-of-convenience of the two entitities that made up Ukraine.

23 posted on 03/25/2014 6:03:44 AM PDT by grania
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: grania

There is always propaganda regarding history and protecting ethnic minorities when you have rogue nations, unilaterally deciding they want certain strategic lands.

Russians have always relied on propaganda to fool those willing to quickly rush into appease them.


24 posted on 03/25/2014 6:10:54 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Zero, Putin, et al., all fighting each other like Communists do.


25 posted on 03/25/2014 6:25:56 AM PDT by CodeToad (Keeping whites from talking about blacks is verbal segregation!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grania

Agreed, should have happened in 94, just like the Czechs and Slovaks.


26 posted on 03/25/2014 6:28:55 AM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: PaulCruz2016

“No cocktail party with the west? I’m sure they’re devastated”

I’m sure Putey is not loving it. He likes to be in the club. Being shunned is not fun.


27 posted on 03/25/2014 7:57:16 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr; gandalftb; SunkenCiv; nuconvert

Talking about history. This was published today 160 years ago by The Economist on the risks of fighting Russia. Three days later, Britain declared war.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2014/03/crimean-war?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ar/realdangersofwar


28 posted on 03/25/2014 11:00:10 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

Sanctions against Russia are wholly justified legally because the Crimea annexation violated the United Nations Charter, the Helsinki Final Act, the Treaty on the Dissolution of the Soviet Union of Almaty December 1991, the Budapest Memorandum on Ukraine’s denuclearization of December 1994, the Russia-Ukraine Friendship Treaty of 1997, and the Sevastopol Naval Base Treaty of 1997. The two most obvious precedents—Iraq’s annexation of Kuwait in 1990 and Nazi Germany’s annexation of Austria in 1938—lead us to the right ballpark of international law. The actual state of affairs between Russian and Ukraine is war. A rethinking of how to deal with Russia economically and financially derives from that fact.
http://blogs.piie.com/realtime/?p=4259


29 posted on 03/25/2014 11:16:20 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith

It’s interesting to see some of the roots of WWI laid out right there — Bismarck’s goal with his treaty system was to diplomatically isolate and basically hamstring France, while ensuring Prussian/Russian cooperation and collusion in the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire, and simultaneously building a commercial network into the Middle East with the O.E. as the overland link. He was the great political mind of the 19th century, and his machinations built a general European peace that lasted nearly forty years, and required three quick, limited wars to put the whole thing together.


30 posted on 03/25/2014 11:39:38 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith

/bingo


31 posted on 03/25/2014 11:40:27 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr

/bingo


32 posted on 03/25/2014 11:41:27 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: grania

Clearly Obama and EU are handling this whole affair badly...the more they attempt the worse they make of the situation and the fallout bites them and other nations....better they stop trying and re-group their thinking instead of knee jerk responses as it’s playing out.....but here’s a thought...

Military Generals are complaining about Putins troops massing on the borders of Ukraine........causing Nato to send Military coverage to the Nato Member states, which Ukraine is not one of them....

Doesn’t it look like if Putin was NOT going to invade Ukraine, a massive buildup on the borders would give him great bargaining leverage?

He’s already got the world leaders attempting to engage and figure out what they could offer for him to stand down......the sanctions are merely to save face for the EU and US...when it boils down there will be deals made and he’s positioned himself for those well.....not to mention he would love the US and Eu to pour scads of money into Ukraine....all Putin has to do is wait on the border until the election...

YEs, you’re right about ‘Obama embracing gov. by coup instead of by vote’...and ‘US patriots spewing cold war slogans’....but then to be expected because they are still in the mindset of the 20th century.....they’ve yet to catch up and accept the facts on the ground... and the diplomatic engagements behind the scenes which brought that about....for them it’s always a matter of who has the bigger guns and a cold war mentality.

As long as the Eu/Nato/Us continue with their World Order agenda for dominance and control...and that by toppling nation leaders who are un-cooperative with that agenda....Russia and China will continue to stand against that when it reaches their borders or comes close to. ....and neither side cares for the nations peoples that get in their way, unless they can serve their agenda.

P.S. Are you paying attention that Eu/uS have told Ukraine they basically are on their own.....no money will flow there until the Right Sector and others are eliminated and Euromaiden is not ready to let them go by any means thus far.

Elections will likely bring in someone Russia and Eu can work with to keep the pipelines flowing. Ukraine will now get crumbs from EU/US and Russia’s table for playing a hand they didn’t have to begin with.


33 posted on 03/25/2014 1:59:16 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: WhiskeyX

Yes, but that was then...it’s all been changed now....which is why they’re having all these emergency meetings regarding if or not they will ‘act’ on that agreements as the obvious situation with Russia continues...

It was stated at the Brussels Summit this past week... that U.S. nor EU is going to assume responsibility for the “physical” security of Ukraine.......Europe is in a “German Recovery” of which without Germany in the loop they cannot do much.... And German people aren’t about ready to fund yet another “bailout” of Ukraine’s 50 billion dollar debt let alone recovery costs.

Further it was stated that Nato does not have a “Collective Response” nor an “Alliance of Commitment”.... because some nations choose not to go along, and others do not have capabilities for an operation. ....additionally European nations have continually cut military budgets so even their defense is limited in deterring Russia. Which is why when a spot vote was taken it was determined by 52% Nato would defend ONLY alliance members.

Interesting to keep in mind is Brussels, Eu Institutions and Nato are all up for leadership re-elections this year.....not to mention the “Hard wired” oil pipelines connecting countries to one another.......as we see these are carrying much of the hesitation to stop Russia militarily. It simply isn’t going to happen.


34 posted on 03/25/2014 2:29:57 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: WhiskeyX

Yes, but that was then...it’s all been changed now....which is why they’re having all these emergency meetings regarding if or not they will ‘act’ on that agreements as the obvious situation with Russia continues...

It was stated at the Brussels Summit this past week... that U.S. nor EU is going to assume responsibility for the “physical” security of Ukraine.......Europe is in a “German Recovery” of which without Germany in the loop they cannot do much.... And German people aren’t about ready to fund yet another “bailout” of Ukraine’s 50 billion dollar debt let alone recovery costs.

Further it was stated that Nato does not have a “Collective Response” nor an “Alliance of Commitment”.... because some nations choose not to go along, and others do not have capabilities for an operation. ....additionally European nations have continually cut military budgets so even their defense is limited in deterring Russia. Which is why when a spot vote was taken it was determined by 52% Nato would defend ONLY alliance members.

Interesting to keep in mind is Brussels, Eu Institutions and Nato are all up for leadership re-elections this year.....not to mention the “Hard wired” oil pipelines connecting countries to one another.......as we see these are carrying much of the hesitation to stop Russia militarily. It simply isn’t going to happen.


35 posted on 03/25/2014 2:29:57 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: caww

“...the sanctions are merely to save face for the EU and US”

This statement is moronic. Why are the US and EU saving face? They have done nothing wrong. Your only logical implication is that they should have been less weak to stand up to Russia.

But considering your other statements, that logic doesn’t fit. You want the US and NATO to lay down for Russia. You can’t have it both ways. Are the US and Nato to lay down or act stronger?

“”‘US patriots spewing cold war slogans’....but then to be expected because they are still in the mindset of the 20th century”

Now this is rich from you Putin bootlickers. Russia forcibly annexes part of Ukraine, something right out of Hitler’s Sudentenland move....But it is the US and Nato that are sooooo 20th Century.

Seriously, you guys are a hoot.


36 posted on 03/25/2014 3:03:32 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr
Well I actually began to comment until I noted you were another one of the 20th century mindset. It's useless to attempt to communicate with you......which by the way the General stated clearly that mindset is hurting communications in determining how to handle this entire mess.

Further the liberals do the same thing you've resorted to.... rather than dialog you resort to name calling...so be assured if you and any others persist to do that it's easy to ignore you and no reason to engage at all....I expect you'll feel no loss and that would be mutual.

37 posted on 03/25/2014 5:24:48 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise
The Group of 7 Nations (G7), formerly Group of 8 (G8) has suspended Russia

Wait, you students of logic. G7 couldn't have suspended Russia, since Russia was not one of the 7. On the other side, G8 cannot be a G8 without Russia!

38 posted on 03/25/2014 5:28:23 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Badwhereas things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: caww

Actually, I do feel lost.

Your lack of logic is astounding and I was curious to see if you were mentally fit enough to untie the pretzel you have twisted yourself into. Particularly in regards to calling those who abhor appeasement, from the 2oth Century.

....While you give Russia a pass after doing a Sudetanland in Ukraine, straight from Hitlers 39 playbook.

Twist away.


39 posted on 03/25/2014 6:33:25 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr

Nough said


40 posted on 03/25/2014 8:00:28 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: caww

Absolutely.

You’ve twisted yourself so badly, you can’t answer direct questions about your distorted opinions.


41 posted on 03/25/2014 8:35:42 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr

Not interested in conversations with people who mouth off...thank you and goodbye.


42 posted on 03/25/2014 8:38:07 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: caww

Yeah, you respond and won’t answer simple direct questions about the knot you’ve twisted yourself into.


43 posted on 03/25/2014 8:56:25 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr
I'm otherwise occupied on better things


44 posted on 03/25/2014 9:23:38 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: rbmillerjr

Capital generated by debtor nations is a house of cards.


45 posted on 03/26/2014 8:57:19 AM PDT by x_plus_one (Islam Delenda Est)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson