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China Demands Malaysia Turn Over Satellite Data
Time ^ | March 25, 2014 | Eileen Ng and Scott McDonald

Posted on 03/25/2014 3:15:54 AM PDT by Brandonmark

(KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia) — China demanded that Malaysia turn over the satellite data used to conclude that a Malaysia Airlines jetliner had crashed in the southern Indian Ocean killing everyone on board, as gale-force winds and heavy rain on Tuesday halted the search for any remains of the plane.

The weather is expected to improve later Tuesday for the multinational search being conducted out of Perth, Australia, to possibly resume Wednesday. But even then, the searchers face a monumental task of combing the vast expanse of choppy seas for suspected remnants of the aircraft sighted earlier.

“We’re not searching for a needle in a haystack — we’re still trying to define where the haystack is,” Australia’s deputy defense chief, Air Marshal Mark Binskin, told reporters in Perth at a military base as idled planes remained parked behind him.

In remarks to the Malaysian Parliament, Prime Minister Najib Razak also cautioned that the search will take a long time and “we will have to face unexpected and extraordinary challenges.”

Late Monday, Najib announced that the Boeing 777 had gone down in the sea with no survivor. But that’s all that investigators and the Malaysian government have been able to say with certainty about Flight 370′s fate since it disappeared on March 8

(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; malaysia; malaysian; mh370; waronterror

1 posted on 03/25/2014 3:15:54 AM PDT by Brandonmark
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To: Brandonmark

Do not be surprised if China takes over the investagation because most on board were Chinese nationals.


2 posted on 03/25/2014 3:45:08 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

While the PRC has every right to be deeply involved in the investigation due to the loss of its citizens (majority on flight were Chinese), I can’t help but wonder how much of the demand is driven by the desire to know the details of the INMARSAT (sp) technique for analyzing the data. It apparently had never been used before; might be of strategic interest.


3 posted on 03/25/2014 3:53:45 AM PDT by Captain Rhino (Determined effort today forges tomorrow)
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To: Captain Rhino

What is INMARSAT? Thank-you for your response!


4 posted on 03/25/2014 3:56:14 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Captain Rhino

They ruled out the Northern corridor only because they said there where too many radars in that region and speculation that “somebody” would see the plane. Not necessarily.

Assumptions for the Northern route are absolutely false. Just because a country has radar capability doesn’t mean they have it on. OR, it they are complicit, (i.e. Pakistan) that they would even report it. All they have said to date (publicly at least) is they saw nothing. That doesn’t mean they acknowledged not looking.


5 posted on 03/25/2014 3:57:30 AM PDT by Bobby_Taxpayer
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To: Brandonmark
Wonder if China is aware the MH370 narrative is shifting rapidly.
6 posted on 03/25/2014 4:00:19 AM PDT by wtd
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To: Bobby_Taxpayer

Just to pass the time...
Go to flightaware and plug in Singapore flt. 68, then overlay that track with the track of fl370 after the turn to the NE.


7 posted on 03/25/2014 4:23:06 AM PDT by Captain7seas
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To: Brandonmark

Oh that’s just great. Now, we have a potential excuse for China to invade the rest of Asia: A plane crash.


8 posted on 03/25/2014 4:30:50 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: Brandonmark

Why not ask the Brits for the data? That’s where Malaysia got the data to begin with.


9 posted on 03/25/2014 4:33:21 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Biggirl
What is INMARSAT? Thank-you for your response!

The British company whose tracking system monitored the 777 system messages. The also refined their analysis and determined that the airplane flew the southern route.

10 posted on 03/25/2014 4:36:45 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Brandonmark
China demanded that Malaysia turn over the satellite data used to conclude that a Malaysia Airlines jetliner had crashed in the southern Indian Ocean

I thought that data and analysis was provided to them by a UK Satellite company?

11 posted on 03/25/2014 4:38:04 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: Biggirl

http://www.inmarsat.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inmarsat

https://www.google.com/search?q=INMARSAT&rlz=1C1AFAB_enUS497US497&oq=INMARSAT&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1772j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Briefly, INMARSAT is a private British company that communicates with vessels, air and sea, via satellite. Their original market was ocean going vessels, hence the “International Maritime Satellite” (IMO is the International Maritime Organization, a quasi-governmental body making recommendations for laws and regulations about the operation of vessels in international trade.) I do not know if INMARSAT is affiliated with IMO.


12 posted on 03/25/2014 4:42:07 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (In the long run, we are all dead.)
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To: Brandonmark

To date all the Malaysian military will say is that the plane was painted at 2:15 heading northwest toward waypoint IGREX.

It would help those trying to locate the crash site to know how long and how far it travelled on that heading before turning south.

It’s more than likely that 2:15 is not the last time it appeared on Malaysian radar.

They need to cough it up and come clean and do so rather quickly.


13 posted on 03/25/2014 5:01:57 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Captain Rhino

I think the analysis is very straightforward, although the assumptions may be challenged. The time difference between the timestamp indicating when the message was transmitted and received would allow one to make a reasonable estimate of the distance between satellite and the aircraft. (300 meters of distance error for every microsecond of timing error.) This would constrain the aircraft to be somewhere on a sphere centered on the satellite. One might also assume that the aircraft is near the surface of the earth. Make an assumption about altitude as a starting point. The intersection of the two spheres, the one centered on the earth and one centered on the satellite would constrain the location of the aircraft to a circle on the globe. The sensitivity of the latitude and longitude points to assumptions about altitude *is tolerably* small.

You can now add further constrains: Distance from last known radar fix, since the aircraft flies at a finite speed, which would determine the maximum (But not the minimum) distance from last known location. We know that the aircraft was somewhere on a circle on the globe formed by the intersecting spheres and it was inside the circle formed by the maximum distance from the last radar fix.

Since there was more than one update, one can make a series of location circles of different radius on the globe, all centered on the satellite’s geographic location at 0 North, 64 East, each valid at different times. In addition one can use the Doppler shift of the signal (if available) to make an estimate of the component of the aircraft’s velocity along the line of sight to the satellite. If one assumes that the aircraft’s velocity and heading remain unchanged over the period of observations (after the last maneuver) there are probably only two great circle trajectories that fit the observations. The Northern path is ruled out because it flies into to much radar coverage not to be seen, leaving only the southern path. If all the observations: time delay and Doppler, fit this trajectory it is *very likely* that this is the actual trajectory. If the observations do not fit a constant bearing, constant heading (i.e. great circle) then it unlikely that this is the actual trajectory, but the constraints at the times of observations still apply. I assume that the observations fit a constant bearing, constant course, and that is the most likely hypothesis.

Really very simple, don’t you think?

It sounds like the cabin crew was disabled, possibly by a cabin fire, turned towards an emergency airfield, lost consciousness and the zombie plane flew on autopilot until it ran out of fuel.


14 posted on 03/25/2014 5:11:22 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (In the long run, we are all dead.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Alternately, it was swallered by black hole, taken to an Iranian base on the Antarctic and the passengers converted into sex slaves.


15 posted on 03/25/2014 5:13:30 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (In the long run, we are all dead.)
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To: Brandonmark

They better find the gotdam thing

Just declaring it sunk ain’t cutting it


16 posted on 03/25/2014 5:15:47 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

“The Northern path is ruled out because it flies into to much radar coverage not to be seen, leaving only the southern path.”

There was an article in the Times of India a couple weeks back that said that India’s defense radar was inoperative along the eastern coast. This basically leaves Bangladesh or Myanmar, and we have heard zip about their radar capabilities or lack of capabilities. So the northern route was ruled out because of an assumption. Of course, everything that is publically known has layer upon layer of assumptions. Even the doppler model taking it south is based on assumptions according to the people who devised it.


17 posted on 03/25/2014 7:29:30 AM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: Brandonmark

I would not be shocked if China’s govt is enjoying this spectacle, as it makes the Chinese people focus on an outside enemy.


18 posted on 03/25/2014 7:42:07 AM PDT by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: Brandonmark

Even the Chi Coms don’t believe it.


19 posted on 03/25/2014 7:48:25 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

The head of the company said it was orig founded by the UN or something.


20 posted on 03/25/2014 7:54:05 AM PDT by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: Kirkwood

The Doppler model would be unable furnish any hints to distinguish between the northern route and the southern route. Knowledge of prevailing winds might be a discriminate, I do not know.

I question the effectiveness of Southern Asian military radar networks, myself. Except for India, I doubt if there’s much there, and the Indians are bowing out, it appears.


21 posted on 03/25/2014 7:58:16 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (In the long run, we are all dead.)
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To: PghBaldy

I think that may be correct. The IMO is one of those quasi-governmental things, and INMARSAT seems to be a spin off or the IMO. The IMO is headquartered in London, because that’s where international shipping insurance is centered, and people trust England’s reputation for seamanship and fairness, compared to other possible locations.

I appears that INMARSAT worked with some very capable people in the British transportation safety agencies to analyze the satellite data, and I personally find their conclusions plausible, prima facie. I’d need to know a lot more to judge for sure. I think because of the political and diplomatic implications, both organizations are remaining very tight lipped. Good for them, in the US everyone involved would be eating lunch at expensive restaurants and blabbing to reporters.


22 posted on 03/25/2014 8:04:57 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (In the long run, we are all dead.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Something smells in all this...


23 posted on 03/25/2014 8:19:51 AM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: Captain7seas

Or try Singapore Airline flight 324, underway now.

But in either case, my point exactly. If this is a commercial route, why deny that MH370 couldn’t be on the same route, sadowing another flight.


24 posted on 03/25/2014 10:18:00 AM PDT by Bobby_Taxpayer
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To: Captain Rhino

I don’t think Inmarsat really have idea where the plane went based upon the pinging by router/DHCP server device aboard the plane if it crashed or Quds aboard commandeered it to Pakistan or Iran. If it crashed ELT could have activated automatically to continuously blind broadcast relevant information: aircraft type, callsign, coordinates, etc., at 121.5, 243,0 and 406 Mhz. Digital packet send at 406 Mhz are picked up by GEOSAR, LEOSAR and MEOSAR. If ELT signal didn’t send anything the plane might have landed safely now hidden in a big hangar in Iran or Pakistan.


25 posted on 03/25/2014 10:33:34 AM PDT by hamboy
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To: Biggirl
Do not be surprised if China takes over the investagation because most on board were Chinese nationals.

Whichever direction the plane went, and whether or not the plane is at the bottom of the ocean or sitting in Pakistan, this is a message from Islam to China. Two Muslim pilots disappeared with two hundred Chinese nationals. The message? You need our oil, we don't need your money and don't mess with our brothers in western China. The message is wrapped in the plausible deniabiliy of this impenetrable fact pattern. The pilots were smart, skilled and willing to die for Islam.

As such, China is the biggest impetus to get to the bottom of this. They will not believe Inmarsat without reviewing all the data. They will not believe anything that the Malaysians say.

So, solely in this situation, I'm rooting for the Chinese. Everyone else is speaking with forked tongue to protect Islam.

26 posted on 03/25/2014 2:18:15 PM PDT by Kennard
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