Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ukraine’s enduring Holodomor horror, when millions starved in the 1930s
euronews ^ | November 22, 2013 | euronews

Posted on 03/25/2014 9:48:05 PM PDT by No One Special

Ukraine, a fertile provider of food, almost died 80 years ago – of starvation. In the village of Targan, 120 kilometres south of the Ukrainian capital Kiev [Kyiv], half the people died from hunger in 1932-1933.

Oleksandra Ovdiyuk, 92 today, survived what Ukrainians call the “Hunger-extermination” – not insufficient food, but deliberate policy imposed by the Soviet dictator Stalin.

She said: “The Bolsheviks had special brigades of seven men that would sweep through the villages in wagons and confiscate any hidden beans, grain or other food from the farmers’ homes.”

Opinion has remained divided for many decades whether the mass death was the result of a deliberate drive to kill an entire people, because Ukrainian nationalism was on the rise, or the unintentional effect of misguided mismanagement by Stalin in his quest to feed rapid industrialisation elsewhere. Millions fell, mostly in rural Ukraine. Cannibalism was documented.

Survivor Olena Goncharuk felt the terror: “We were afraid to go out in the village, because people were starving and they hunted children. My neighbour had a daughter, who disappeared. We went to her house. The head was separated from the body, and the body was cooking in the oven.”

Stalin’s forces in 1932-33 requisitioned food stores, deported peasants or forbade them from leaving the land, carried out mass executions and put people in prison.

Olena Goncharuk relives the horror: “There was a man who went into a woman’s house to take the body away. But she was still alive. She asked the man: ‘Don’t take me, I’m still breathing.’ And he said: ‘One way or another you are going to die, and I don’t want to have to come back for you tomorrow!’”

Cherished sites today belie the great nameless burials. Stalin’s reign of terror would claim many victims in other terrible actions too, aimed at consolidating power – his purges, for example. And information about death tolls and nationalities of who died where and how – by firing squad or famine – was guarded, repressed, denied or distorted with propaganda pseudo-justification.

Historian Volodymyr Serhiychuk told us: “There was famine in other USSR regions, in Kazakhstan, for instance, but Kazakhs could go and seek food in neighbouring Russian regions, or in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. Ukrainians, in contrast, in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, couldn’t go to Belarus or Russia, because the borders were closed and there were no railway tickets for them.

“Ukrainian farmers didn’t want to join collective farms, they didn’t want to give the Bolsheviks their produce. That’s why the Bolsheviks killed them with famine.”

Then more millions were killed in World War Two. It was only many years later that light could be shed on the Holodomor. After independence in 1991, a law in Ukraine made it a criminal offence to deny that the Holodomor was pre-meditated genocide.

Iryna Gibert, from euronews headquarters in Lyon, spoke about this with André Liebich, a professor at the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva.

He is a historian whose speciality is the countries of the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the USSR.

euronews: “Ukrainian law defines the Holodomor as a genocide against the people of Ukraine. More than 20 countries recognise this. But many people consider that the term ‘genocide’ does not say enough. Why is this?”

André Liebich: “It is in fact a poorly chosen term. When we think ‘genocide’, and certainly in the context of the 1930s, we think foremost of the Holocaust. The difference is that the Holodomor did not only affect the Ukrainian people but also other peoples within Ukraine and outside it: in Kazakhstan and in Russia. In addition, the Holocaust was a campaign whose intention was to exterminate a people while the Holodomor was not conceived to eradicate the Ukrainian people, even though there were undeniably millions of victims. It was the result of a brutal, inhumane policy led by Stalin, who didn’t care how many died because of him. But his first intention wasn’t to eliminate the Ukrainians but rather to realise his programme, whatever the cost, even if it meant millions of peasant victims especially – peasants who often were Ukrainians.”

euronews: “The criminal code in Ukraine provides for prosecution for public denial of the Holodomor. Doesn’t that stifle debate on the subject?”

Liebich: “Absolutely. It is not up to the state to decree what is true, or to put a stop to discussion. The fact that the Holodomor is contested by some people only makes the debate more real and necessary. It is by showing what happened and discussing the number of victims that we manage to establish the truth. It’s not for the state to legislate what is true and not true, and to stop discussion.”

euronews: “The reality is millions of individual deaths – even if the numbers vary. Isn’t it fair to count this tragedy on the scale of a crime against humanity, as is the case for the Holocaust?”

Liebich: “Entirely so: as a crime against humanity – not as a crime against a particular people. If we conceive of the Holodomor as a crime that affected millions of individuals across the former

USSR, we have the foundation for a common commemoration, a reconciliation between the Russians and the Ukrainians and other peoples. If we portray the Holodomor as exclusive, as a purely Ukrainian tragedy targeting only them, we only create conflicts with others who were also victims of that tragedy.”

euronews: “Ukraine is often criticised for competitively inflating the death toll. What’s your opinion on that?”

Liebich: “There is, effectively, an overstating of the number of victims which doesn’t help anyone. The lowest we can give for the Holodomor is 2,000,000. If we add those who died of illness, of famine-induced weakness, add the birth deficit, we get a figure of several million – but we don’t get the 10,000,000 that we sometimes hear, and maybe not even the 6,000,000 that is the standard figure for the Holocaust, to which some seek to compare the Holodomor.”


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: holodomor; russia; ukraine

1 posted on 03/25/2014 9:48:05 PM PDT by No One Special
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: No One Special

2 posted on 03/25/2014 9:51:31 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

If this had been done by a regime labeled ‘right wing” by the Left, we would never hear the end of it’s horrors, but, alas.


3 posted on 03/25/2014 9:55:32 PM PDT by Amberdawn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

***She said: “The Bolsheviks had special brigades of seven men that would sweep through the villages in wagons and confiscate any hidden beans, grain or other food from the farmers’ homes.” ***

Reminds me of what happened to my Sister-in-law’s husband’s family who operated a ranch in West Texas. During WWII they provided all food for themselves and the ranch hands, but one day someone snitched, said they were HOARDING, and all their foods were confiscated.

How did they survive? They had another hidden food cellar out in the hills.


4 posted on 03/25/2014 9:58:13 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amberdawn

nowadays the left claim the right is worse than stalin for not providing state funded abortion and contraceptives.


5 posted on 03/25/2014 10:03:37 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: No One Special
Gee, I learned in college that Stalin starved at least 15 million in Ukraine and surrounding areas.

And, Hitler was responsible for the deaths of at least 40 million people.

I'm Left wondering what the point of the article is.

Historical information?

6 posted on 03/25/2014 10:08:21 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: No One Special; All

A remnant of reporting the episode is the word kulacks which can be found in todays dictionaries. Thank you New York Times; Durante.

Which is how Stalin described those who were against his collectization pogrom. It meant “fist” and described as the fist held against the throats of the proletariat. Because they were “hoarding” food.


7 posted on 03/25/2014 10:21:40 PM PDT by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause.Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mosesdapoet

Yes, it means fist but I heard it was in reference to the closed fist of someone who would not share their produce. But who knows? I do not know a word of Russian.


8 posted on 03/25/2014 10:40:49 PM PDT by No One Special
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

The year we diplomatically recognized was 1933 which was FDR’s first term. The Holodomor dated from 1932 to 1933. I suppose he might have been unaware.


9 posted on 03/25/2014 10:45:45 PM PDT by No One Special
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

A squad of 7 men. An AK or an AR with one mag in a kulaks home.

That’s all that was needed. NKVD men, gestapo, pol pots boys,, they all deserved a surprise mad minute.


10 posted on 03/25/2014 10:46:01 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mariner
Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted; it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians.
--George Santayna
The Life of Reason (1905-1906)
Vol. I, Reason in Common Sense
11 posted on 03/25/2014 10:53:39 PM PDT by No One Special
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

The cruelty Russian Tsars, Soviet rulers, and Putin inflict on Ukraine while claiming that its their country is amazing. It’s regrettable that these crimes are less known and for some reason get little sympathy. Maybe we just have such low expectations of people like Putin, though it seems he does have a fan club here. But in the case of Putin fans his being willing to inflict more suffering on a nation that only wants to be free of his interference and his cronies is seen as yet another reason for Putin to lash out at them. Putin is worth $75 billion. He is rich enough to help them if he wanted to do something to win them over.


12 posted on 03/25/2014 11:13:30 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

Remember this was a time when Liberals were denying anything was wrong with Russia or with its recaptured satellites. You probably know about the New York Times reporter Walter Duranty who knew full well about Stalin’s crimes and still covered them up. He was like many Putinistas are today.


13 posted on 03/25/2014 11:15:54 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: elhombrelibre

“It’s regrettable that these crimes are less known and for some reason get little sympathy.”

It’s less known because at the time these events were happening, “Socialism” and it’s propaganda were all the rage among the “enlightened” liberals of the Western Press.

The US Government, CPUSA and the unions of the 30’s were riddled with Soviet agents and sympathizers who immediately quashed any suggestions that Socialism was anything but the best thing ever. many in the media sympathized with the Soviet Union, (and even Nazism).

Kinda like what is happening in the US now.


14 posted on 03/25/2014 11:40:34 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
"During WWII they provided all food for themselves and the ranch hands, but one day someone snitched, said they were HOARDING, and all their foods were confiscated.

How did they survive? They had another hidden food cellar out in the hills."

If they had TWO STASHES, and had enough to survive after one was confiscated...how many GIs were deprived of food? How many hard working Americans,including kids were deprived of rations? Remember Victory Gardens... oops guess they had a "stash" garden in Texas.

Which was worse, Hoarding as in TWO stashes or the Black Market trafficking? Our men were at war and we were deprived. Sounds like things were not so patriotic in parts of this country even then.. Were they Dems? All JMO

15 posted on 03/26/2014 12:10:42 AM PDT by Tuketu (The Dim Platform is splinters bound by crazy glue., The Tea Party is the solvent)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Tuketu

I was raised up in a poor family , we did not hoard food and we did not starve.

The only thing i remember having food stamps for was sugar, there may have been other things but the only thing i was interested in was sugar because that meant candy.

The only thing i worried about is if that S.O.B. could come over here and exterminate me.


16 posted on 03/26/2014 1:24:46 AM PDT by ravenwolf (ost void of pend)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: elhombrelibre

Most of the Putinistas I have seen on this forum are ideologues. They will not change until they recognize that fact. I simply ignore them because they are not reachable thru dialogue.


17 posted on 03/26/2014 2:04:35 AM PDT by No One Special
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: elhombrelibre
"...There is, effectively, an overstating of the number of victims which doesn’t help anyone. The lowest we can give for the Holodomor is 2,000,000. If we add those who died of illness, of famine-induced weakness, add the birth deficit, we get a figure of several million – but we don’t get the 10,000,000 that we sometimes hear, and maybe not even the 6,000,000 that is the standard figure for the Holocaust, to which some seek to compare the Holodomor...."

Ah. So it was only TWO million that Stalin starved to death. Boy, does that ever make me feel so much more positive about the Soviets.

There were people like Owen Lattimore, that communist turncoat scumbag POS who traveled with Vice President Wallace and his delegates when they stayed 25 days in Siberia and were given a tour of the Soviet Union's Magadan concentration camp at Kolyma. In a travelogue for National Geographic, Lattimore described what little he saw as a combination of the Hudson's Bay Company and the TVA, remarking on how strong and well-fed the inmates were and ascribing to camp commandant Ivan Nikishov 'a trained and sensitive interest in art and music and also a deep sense of civic responsibility.

Liberals are complicit in the death of the millions in the Soviet Union, and the tens of millions who were murdered in China during "The Great Leap". Add that to the millions more who have died around the world since the early Seventies when DDT was banned due to malaria and other insect-borne diseases.

What a blasphemous, bloodthirsty, stench of a curse liberalism is on humanity.

18 posted on 03/26/2014 2:22:48 AM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Mariner

The point is to keep Holocost and Holodomor deniers at bay. There are those who publicly deny either ever happened


19 posted on 03/26/2014 2:30:19 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

A lot of people died because people nade bad mistakes back then. We basically gave Stalin the bomb and then we had the Korean war. Doubt it would have happened if we didn’t give him the secret.


20 posted on 03/26/2014 2:57:43 AM PDT by No One Special
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Jimmy Valentine

I wonder if Pooty has an official position on the Holodomor?


21 posted on 03/26/2014 2:59:57 AM PDT by No One Special
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

Bump


22 posted on 03/26/2014 3:35:38 AM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

Interesting timing. The media had NO PROBLEM keeping this story, essentially, under wraps for DECADES as it made a Communist (Stalin) look bad. But now that they’re mad at Russia, they finally get around to doing a story on it. NEVER mentioned when I went to public school...in fact, nothing bad about the Soviet Union was EVER mentioned, even though they were the biggest threat to my existence (during the Cold War).

(and yes, I’ve read books on this subject...I know it’s out there, but how many Americans know it)


23 posted on 03/26/2014 4:47:07 AM PDT by BobL (To us it's a game, to them it's personal - therefore they win.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tuketu; Ruy Dias de Bivar

Lessons learned from Tuketu’s post:

1. The “We’re entitled to your stuff” crowd is, was, & will always be with us. Whenever you see the word “deprived”, you know somebody is pissed you have something they don’t, and will use fed.gov to steal it.

2. The excuses remain the same: hard-working Americans, the chilluns’, the troopies, patriotism (which I guess covers all the freeloaders, too). Fair Share Crowd PING applies here.

3. That ensuring your own survial could be akin to, or worse than profiteering.

4. Caching and OPSEC should be higher on everyone’s priority lists.

5. It always seems to boil down to individual -vs- collective, so plan accordingly and see #4.

JMO,

LB


24 posted on 03/26/2014 6:17:52 AM PDT by LadyBuck (Some day very soon, Life's little Twinkie gauge is gonna go......empty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Tuketu

They had just come out of a depression and drought. They learned the value of two cellars. The food was stuff they had canned several years before.


25 posted on 03/26/2014 6:30:26 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Tuketu

***how many GIs were deprived of food? ***

What is really interesting is the SAME MAN who confiscated the home canned food was the same government agent who, ten years earlier, had bought up all the cattle he could get, dug a hole and shot them, then buried them.


26 posted on 03/26/2014 6:32:56 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: mosesdapoet
Thank you New York Times; Durante.

The New York Times has been the enemy of humanity for as long as it has existed.

27 posted on 03/26/2014 6:35:54 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Tuketu
If they had TWO STASHES, and had enough to survive after one was confiscated...how many GIs were deprived of food?

None. We prosecuted WWII with no starvation amongst our troops.

28 posted on 03/26/2014 6:37:38 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Tuketu

*** Our men were at war and we were deprived.***

No they weren’t. The men going into landing craft were fed steak before, and there was enough meat on hand that one sailor grabbed a big raw roast from the kitchen and tried to catch a shark.

The people back home were trying to rebuild their herds after the government slaughtered and buried thousands of cattle years before, and all farmers tried to keep two years supply in case of a crop failure.


29 posted on 03/26/2014 6:39:54 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

One of my favorite cartoons from WWII is by Bill Mauldin. Russians with American supplies are trying to figure what we sent them by looking in a Russian/American dictionary for words like...SPAM....MAZOLA.


30 posted on 03/26/2014 6:42:41 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Jimmy Valentine
The point is to keep Holocost and Holodomor deniers at bay. There are those who publicly deny either ever happened

And let's not forget the 1915-1918 Armenian Genocide of 1.5 million Armenian Christians by the Muslim Turks, without worldwide outrage. I've seen articles speculating that this showed Stalin and Hitler that they could do something similar without consequence.

31 posted on 03/26/2014 7:08:40 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Ukraine’s enduring Holodomor horror, when millions starved in the 1930s, No One Special wrote: (Concerning my reference to the use of the word kulak) Yes, it means fist but I heard it was in reference to the closed fist of someone who would not share their produce

The way I saw it referenced was a fist wrapped around the throats. BTW Websters New World Dictionary 1979 edition shows it as Russian of Estonian orig) p416)
That dictionary also describes it as a “well to do farmer” not as a derogatory reference which is a revisionist remnant of the Durante NYT influence


32 posted on 03/26/2014 9:14:07 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause.Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: No One Special

Yes. He doesn’t want to hear about it. Ukraine held a commemoration of it and the Ruskies went ape


33 posted on 03/26/2014 11:20:02 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

You cite ONE possible example but why were WE ON RATIONS? Still a blackmarket deal IMHO


34 posted on 03/27/2014 4:45:03 PM PDT by Tuketu (The Dim Platform is splinters bound by crazy glue., The Tea Party is the solvent)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson