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“Stand Your Ground” Nation: America used to value the concept of retreat. Now we just shoot.
Slate ^ | February 25, 2014 | Dahlia Lithwick

Posted on 03/26/2014 5:51:02 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Ever since George Zimmerman gunned down Trayvon Martin in his Sanford, Fla., gated community, it’s become an article of faith that the rash of lethal shootings in public places—from the Florida moviegoer who was killed after a texting and popcorn-throwing incident to Jordan Davis, shot in his car at a Jacksonville, Fla., gas station to last week’s lethal shooting in an Arizona Walmart—is attributable to the “stand your ground” laws enacted over the past decade in 26 states across the country. Aggressive human interaction, post-Trayvon, now follows a painfully familiar pattern: An altercation occurs. Someone says he feared for his life. An unarmed victim (often young, black, and male) is shot and killed. The headlines either explicitly or implicitly invoke “stand your ground.”

Last week, Kriston Charles Belinte Chee, an unarmed man, got into a fight with Cyle Wayne Quadlin at a Walmart in suburban Arizona. Quadlin opened fire midargument and killed Chee. Officers decided not to charge Quadlin because, they concluded, the killing was in self-defense. According to the police spokesman, “Mr. Quadlin was losing the fight and indicated he ‘was in fear for his life.’” Just a week earlier, a jury in Jacksonville, Fla., found Michael Dunn guilty on four counts of attempted murder but did not convict him on the most serious charge of first-degree murder, in the death of 17-year-old Jordan Davis. Dunn shot and killed Davis, also unarmed, because the music coming from his car was too loud. Dunn claimed he saw something like a gun in the vehicle, and that was apparently enough for some members of the jury to conclude that Dunn hadn’t committed first-degree murder.

Given all this, it’s not unreasonable to argue that, in America, you can be shot and killed, without consequences for the shooter....

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; blackkk; dahlialithwick; demagogicparty; ericholder; florida; georgezimmerman; memebuilding; partisanmediashill; partisanmediashills; slate; standyourground; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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I wonder if this woman has ever even seen a gun in person.

Dahlia Lithwick is a Canadian writer and editor who lives in the United States. Lithwick is a contributing editor at Newsweek and senior editor at Slate

1 posted on 03/26/2014 5:51:02 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

First thing I think of is Captain Winters telling Major Nixon, “I don’t like retreating”.

Just for instance. Of course, they were the first at Berchestgaten, after Hitler, that is.


2 posted on 03/26/2014 5:53:04 PM PDT by stanne
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Americans used to value the concept of retreat? What the h*ll kind of stupid headline is this?


3 posted on 03/26/2014 5:53:32 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Detroiters have had it. Chief Craig has often said good Americans that are legally in possession of firearms are defending their homes, and they have the right to do that, and we stand behind them in doing so,”


4 posted on 03/26/2014 5:56:07 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Here’s some practical advice for those who don’t wish to be shot for attacking someone that will stand their ground. Don’t attack people...the more you know.


5 posted on 03/26/2014 5:56:13 PM PDT by hometoroost
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
America used to value the concept of retreat.

What the hell America is she talking about? I've never retreated from anything in my life and don't plan on ever doing so!

6 posted on 03/26/2014 5:56:30 PM PDT by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"I wonder if this woman has ever even seen a gun in person?."

ONLY "contact" shes had with any firearm was seeing one on TELEVISION.... and even then she averted her tender eyes!


7 posted on 03/26/2014 5:56:40 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( "Never, never, never give up". Winston Churchill)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t enjoy Slate... they’re so dishonest...


8 posted on 03/26/2014 5:58:04 PM PDT by GOPJ (NASA: N othing A bout S pace A nymore - - FreperClearCase_guy)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Gunned down while you were beating a head against the sidewalk. Yea, right.


9 posted on 03/26/2014 5:58:19 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Roberts has perverted the Constitution)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
For ye have the poor clueless twits with you always . .
10 posted on 03/26/2014 6:01:49 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Canadians are all trash...with their beady eyes, and their flapping heads."
11 posted on 03/26/2014 6:01:58 PM PDT by EEGator
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Retreat, Hell - we just got here!" Capt. Lloyd W. Willams USMC, Lucy-le-Bocage, France, June 1, 1918.

Semper Fi

12 posted on 03/26/2014 6:03:45 PM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

As sure as the sun rises, another cookie cutter know-it-all “Journ-O-List”

BTW Babe, Thugvon was not “gunned down” Idiot

Lithwick was born in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada and is a Canadian citizen. She moved to the U.S. to study at Yale University, where she received a B.A. in English in 1990. As a student at Yale she debated on the American Parliamentary Debate Association circuit. In 1990 she and her debate partner at the time Austan Goolsbee were runners up for National Debate Team of the Year.[dubious – discuss]

She went on to study law at Stanford University, where she received her J.D. in 1996. She then clerked for Judge Procter Hug on the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.[1] She is Jewish, and keeps a kosher home.[5]
Bibliography


13 posted on 03/26/2014 6:03:51 PM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (Hey 2008, we told you so)
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To: MeshugeMikey

Gawd. Another ‘mayo head’.


14 posted on 03/26/2014 6:03:52 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Uh, Dahlia, how are you supposed to “retreat” when some thug has you down on the ground and is beating your head on the concrete?


15 posted on 03/26/2014 6:04:14 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

often young, black, and male)

Maybe if they didn’t instigate these encounters, they might become older black males more often...


16 posted on 03/26/2014 6:04:49 PM PDT by Adder (No, Mr. Franklin, we could NOT keep it.)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

...Mayo Clinic...Head...


17 posted on 03/26/2014 6:05:49 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( "Never, never, never give up". Winston Churchill)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

People, it’s Slate. What do you expect?


18 posted on 03/26/2014 6:07:50 PM PDT by Seruzawa (I kick @ss for the Lord!)
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To: skeeter

She’s Canadian, where does she get “we” in the [idiot] headline.

George Z didn’t “gun down” Martin. He shot him because Martin was repeatedly smashing his head into the concrete & he would have died had he not stopped the drugged out “teen”. Gunned down? WTH reasoning is that?

If she is so concerned about people just getting gunned down, perhaps she should do some research and write a piece on the tens of thousands of times a year SWAT teams, armed with assault rifles and tactical gear, break down the doors of,and invade the homes of innocent citizens without warrants or warrants based on the statement of an *anonymous* caller? Sometimes killing the innocent homeowner.

Or, like most liberal fascists, does she believe that “gunning people down” is the prerogative of despotic governments and militarized jackbooted police?

Perhaps a little research into the flash mobs that roam around beating and sometimes *crippling* innocent bystanders. Maybe she could tell us how they wouldn’t get beat up if they knew how to properly retreat.


19 posted on 03/26/2014 6:08:38 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s ((If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
America used to value the concept of retreat.

Since when? In cities, maybe. I remember Canada having a military, of some sort, too.
20 posted on 03/26/2014 6:08:46 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: Chainmail

Did you know that my namesake division had Marine regiments aboard during World War I and actually had Marine commanding generals, even though it was an Army division?


21 posted on 03/26/2014 6:08:47 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The LIE continues.


22 posted on 03/26/2014 6:08:47 PM PDT by Ray76 (Profit from the mistakes of others, you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Stupid headline...even stupider content I think the author of this just loves stupid.


23 posted on 03/26/2014 6:09:15 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (Obama is just the symptom of what is destroying the U.S.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yet another ego-driven, arrogant, haughty foreigner telling us how to run the country.


24 posted on 03/26/2014 6:09:23 PM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (What we need is to sucker the fedthugs into a "Tiananmen Square"-like incident on the National Mall!)
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To: GOPJ
I don’t enjoy Slate... they’re so dishonest...

Ya' think?
25 posted on 03/26/2014 6:10:00 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: 98ZJ USMC

Canada had a great big military as recently as World War II and was instrumental in winning that fight. By the war’s end, over 1 million citizens would serve in military uniform (out of a prewar population of 11 million) and Canada would possess the fourth-largest air force and third-largest naval surface fleet in the world. Around 41% of Canadian males 18–45 served in the military (25% of Quebec males, 42–48% for other provinces) during 1939–45.


26 posted on 03/26/2014 6:12:09 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Did you know that my namesake division had Marine regiments aboard during World War I and actually had Marine commanding generals, even though it was an Army division?

John A. Lejune, IIRC. George C. Marshall made SURE that that would never happen again or that Marines would ever serve in Europe, ever again.
27 posted on 03/26/2014 6:12:37 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Given all this, it’s not unreasonable to argue that, in America, you can be shot and killed, without consequences for the shooter, for playing loud music, wearing a hoodie, or shopping at a Walmart.

Yes, actually, that is unreasonable by definition inasmuch as it is an entirely false representation of the circumstances cited. You can be shot and killed for physically attacking someone, yes, with no consequences for the shooter, as it should be.

It never seems to occur to liberal gun prohibitionists that a presumed requirement to retreat works both ways. If it applied to Zimmerman, it also applied to the aggressor St. Trayvon, who very obviously did not "value" retreat.

Shorn of its legalistic pretensions, Dahlia's case is simply that physical violence is justified on the part of protected classes and that those in "oppressing" classes have no right to self-defense. She can hyperventilate all she wants, but that isn't how it's going to be.

28 posted on 03/26/2014 6:13:17 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: 98ZJ USMC

No wonder Doug hated him.


29 posted on 03/26/2014 6:13:27 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Boo-hoo...Crimea river.

FMCDH(BITS)

30 posted on 03/26/2014 6:14:39 PM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: A_Former_Democrat
She is Jewish, and keeps a kosher home

If every Jew in Hitler's Germany had a gun, 20 rounds AND the will to use it, Hitler would be a minor footnote in history.

Instead, 6 million Jews and 7 million non Jews were *tortured and slaughtered* by Hitler. And something like 60 million people worldwide died as a direct result of a war that Hitler was largely responsible for.

A Jew that thinks people should be disarmed is the true definition of insanity.

31 posted on 03/26/2014 6:14:45 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s ((If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I don't want to get any messages saying, "I am holding my position." We are not holding a thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living crap out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like crap through a tin horn!

General George S. Patton on American strategery

32 posted on 03/26/2014 6:16:29 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
as recently as World War II

Recent? FULL DISCLOSURE: I worked with the PPCLI in Alaska.
33 posted on 03/26/2014 6:16:32 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear
Gawd. Another ‘mayo head’.

Ah crap! Now I have to get my spare keyboard out!

FMCDH(BITS)

34 posted on 03/26/2014 6:18:09 PM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Before Americans valued the concept of retreat they used to value the concept of protecting their lives and property. I have to be honest that I once valued the concept of retreat, but I learned differently from my wife’s grandfather some 30 years ago. He was a caring and loving man. He wasn’t heavy handed in his lessons. Looking back on it today, I realize he wanted me to correctly care for his precious grand daughter. And I do.


35 posted on 03/26/2014 6:19:33 PM PDT by ConservativeInPA (We need to fundamentally transform RATs lives for their lies.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I have to state that deicent people have retreated enough in this country.


36 posted on 03/26/2014 6:19:57 PM PDT by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The quicker we remove these liberals from the gene pool, the better!


37 posted on 03/26/2014 6:20:14 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: ealgeone

The Normandy landing plan included as much as 70% casualties as acceptable losses as long as the beachhead was taken. Fortunately the killed and wounded came to something closer to 20% but they most definitely weren’t honoring the concept of retreat.


38 posted on 03/26/2014 6:21:06 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Question. How exactly does a guy retreat when he’s on the ground getting beaten? Never mind how. Where?


39 posted on 03/26/2014 6:22:06 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Maybe we are just fed up with all the vermin and much as that well known movie scene we are collectively sticking our heads out the window and yelling “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore! In California being popped for carrying a concealed weapon, if your not a felon, is generally a misdemeanor, so if I have to go somewhere iffy ( if all my guns and ammo hadn’t fallen into that bedamned mine shaft)I would carry an inexpensive Makarov in .380 and be safe.


40 posted on 03/26/2014 6:23:30 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“America used to value the concept of retreat.”

Like we retreated from England in the Revolutionary war until England won? Or like the Union forces retreated during the Civil War until the South won? Or like the U.S. forces retreated in WWI until Germany won? Or like the U.S. forces retreated in WWII until Germany and Japan won?

Or like the way the FBI retreated from the 1930’s bank robbers until all the banks were robbed? Or like the way the FBI retreated from the Mafia until the Mafia won? Or the way the U.S. retreated from the Soviet Union until the Soviet Union won? Or like every comic book super hero retreated from every comic book villain until the villains won? Or like the way every TV hero from Matt Dillon
to Lucas McCain always retreated until the villains won?

Retreated like that? If so, then one of us is living in an alternate universe, probably Bizzaro World where very thing is backwards.


41 posted on 03/26/2014 6:24:47 PM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: cripplecreek
Yes...and at Tarawa I believe 1/3 of the landing force was killed/wounded.

Pretty brutal stats.

42 posted on 03/26/2014 6:25:10 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Canadian Dahlia Lithwick, a female Piers Morgan, takes it upon herself to lecture Americans:

"Blah, blah, blah ..... guns bad, ... blah, blah, blah .... Travon murdered ... blah, blah, blah ...".

43 posted on 03/26/2014 6:27:16 PM PDT by Col Freeper (FR: A smorgasbord of Conservative Mindfood - dig in and enjoy it!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

and cops’used to actually serve and protect citizens instead of shooting them and asking questions later, before “officer safety” replaced that as the core operating principle.

we are not supposed to have to retreat before engaging someone intent on doing us harm. too many have been railroaded by this stupid idiotic requirement. let the criminals ‘retreat’. let them fear attacking the wrong people.

more people have died because of liberals’ worries about the poor criminals ambushing innocent citizens.


44 posted on 03/26/2014 6:31:21 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Americans used to VALUE the concept of retreat? Somebody been eating them happy mushrooms. What “americans” is this moron talking about? Just saw her pic in another post. She looks like she may have “issues”. Nevermind.


45 posted on 03/26/2014 6:32:04 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Trust no one.)
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To: skeeter

tactical retreat - so you can find a better spot to fight - as opposed to having to before defending themselves. totally different concepts.


46 posted on 03/26/2014 6:32:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: 98ZJ USMC

maybe the we she’s referring to are canadians.


47 posted on 03/26/2014 6:34:02 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: A_Former_Democrat

“Judge Procter Hug”

You can’t make this stuff up. No wonder she prefers, “advancing to the rear”.


48 posted on 03/26/2014 6:35:26 PM PDT by outofsalt (If history teaches us anything it's that history rarely teaches us anything.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Never bring a Canadian bitch to a gunfight.


49 posted on 03/26/2014 6:39:38 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

America has never valued the concept of retreat. That cheesehead has a moldy brain.


50 posted on 03/26/2014 6:48:27 PM PDT by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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