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Noonan: Mr. Putin's Revealing Speech
Wall Street Journal ^ | 03/27/2014 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 03/27/2014 7:54:59 PM PDT by goldstategop

One of the strategically interesting things about Vladimir Putin is that he has been careful not to set himself against religious belief but attempted to align himself with it. He has taken domestic actions that he believes reflect the assumptions of religious conservatives. He has positioned himself so that he can make a claim on a part of the Russian soul, as they used to say, that his forbears could not: He is not anti-God, he is pro-God, pro the old church of the older, great Russia. ...

At the top, religious references. Crimea is "where Prince Vladimir was baptized. His spiritual feat of adopting Orthodoxy predetermined the overall basis of the culture, civilization and human values that unite the people of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus."

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Russia
KEYWORDS: christianity; crimea; peggynoonan; presidentputin; wsj
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Russia's President Putin is an old-school religious believer. He is sincere about God in a way one would never hear from the old Soviet leaders.

He despises their atheism as much as he turns aside from the amoral secularism of the decadent West. His appeal is to the vitality of Christianity and the greatness of Russia.

He has reconnected his country with the well-springs of Slavic civilization. We in the West are in danger of forgetting the foundations of our own heritage.

We are absent more than anything else - from the spiritual battlefield. We do not have answer to Putin on the revived vigor of the Orthodox Christian civilization in the East.

That overshadows even Crimea.

1 posted on 03/27/2014 7:54:59 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop

It wasn’t that long ago this bitch was telling us how wonderful Obama was.


2 posted on 03/27/2014 7:57:36 PM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: goldstategop

Man, the things you guys read into this old KGB guy.


3 posted on 03/27/2014 8:04:22 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ansel12

Shoot the messenger - but have you heard Western leaders speak of God, justice and the truth lately?

Man does not live by bread alone.


4 posted on 03/27/2014 8:14:54 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
If what you've written is true, Russia is in good Hands allied with the Ultimate Power. From what I've read, Russia will become great and greatly admired and looked to for leadership away from the temptation and decadence of the West. Her enemies will fail and fall before her.

If that is not true, then Russia is in for a rough time and a return to the struggles of her recent past, just as we are now in our fall from Grace into Satan's embrace.

5 posted on 03/27/2014 8:18:11 PM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: goldstategop

“....values that unite the people of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.”

.
Meaning: Ukraine and Belarus had better be prepared for internal strife and Russian takeover.


6 posted on 03/27/2014 8:21:36 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: Slump Tester

LOL


7 posted on 03/27/2014 8:21:57 PM PDT by HapaxLegamenon
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To: goldstategop

Putin speak with forked tongue, Kemosabe.


8 posted on 03/27/2014 8:30:04 PM PDT by logitech (It is time.)
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To: GBA; All

on gays
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130725/182424969/Christianity-Made-Russia-Great-World-Power—Putin.html

on Soros
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpO3PArAoUQ

His faith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3d_yxJhmjk

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130725/182424969/Christianity-Made-Russia-Great-World-Power—Putin.html

The restoration of the Cathedrals and churches

The Cathedral of Christ The Savior - holds 30,000 (The original was blown up b y the Communists)

http://www.123rf.com/photo_7308397_the-restored-cathedral-of-christ-the-savior-in-moscow-at-night.html

calls for world leaders to stop the slaughter/persecution of Christians going on today - heard one peep about this fro OUR Pres_ent?

http://answersforthefaith.com/2013/08/08/putin-world-leaders-should-unite-to-end-christian-persecution/

etc


9 posted on 03/27/2014 8:48:23 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does - by their fruits)
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To: goldstategop

“...older great Russia...”? WTF, Peg - lay off the bourbon. I don’t know how far back she’s going, but Russia went from a monarchy full of ignorant starving peasants to a series of dictatorships full of ignorant starving peasants to an oligarchy full of ignorant starving peasants. Other than fossil fuels and weapons, their only exports are prostitutes and mobsters.


10 posted on 03/27/2014 8:49:04 PM PDT by stormer
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To: goldstategop

The Russians have been at this 3rd Rome bit for at least 500 years. The Orthodox church, for better or worse whatever its virtues may be, has been totally co-opted by the State since Peter the Great.

Putin is a Russian imperialist. Just like Peter. He sees Russia as the rightful hegemonic ruler of the world. It serves his purposes to continue to co-opt the church. As for any true desire for Christianity (ie the Gospel of Jesus as opposed to the institutional Church), look for a bit at how the indigenous Protestant denominations are treated. Atheism is far more acceptable to the gov’t than any dissenter.


11 posted on 03/27/2014 8:51:53 PM PDT by RedElement
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To: RedElement

There’s a lot of fallacy in your statements.

1. The Russian church is co-opted by the state. ? So is the Church of England. Does that make the queen a liar when she says she’s Christian?

2. Putin is an imperialist with worldwide ambitions. Really? You get that from what - invasion of next door neighbor Crimea? What about Obama going half-way around the world to impose regime change on Libya? That’s a lot more “imperial” than anything Putin has done.


12 posted on 03/27/2014 9:00:44 PM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: Slump Tester

who is more of a sincere Christian - Putin or McCain?


13 posted on 03/27/2014 9:02:21 PM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: goldstategop

Ex KGB Putin and the Russian Orthodox, seem to be in an unholy alliance is my feeling so far, that feeling comes from the seeming militancy and anti-Christian efforts of the Russian Orthodox and the state.

Russia hasn’t changed, nor has it’s church, I don’t see this ending up well.

NYTs “STARY OSKOL, Russia — It was not long after a Methodist church put down roots here that the troubles began.

First came visits from agents of the FSB, the successor to the KGB, who evidently saw a threat in a few dozen searching souls who liked to huddle in cramped apartments to read the Bible and, perhaps, drink a little tea. Local officials then labeled the church a “sect.” Finally, last month, they shut it down.

There was a time after the fall of Communism when small Protestant congregations blossomed here in southwestern Russia, when a church was almost as easy to set up as a general store. Today, this industrial region has become emblematic of the suppression of religious freedom under President Vladimir Putin.

Just as the government has tightened control over political life, so, too, has it intruded in matters of faith. The Kremlin’s surrogates in many areas have turned the Russian Orthodox Church into a de facto official religion, warding off other Christian denominations that seem to offer the most significant competition for worshipers. They have all but banned proselytizing by Protestants and discouraged Protestant worship through a variety of harassing measures, according to dozens of interviews with government officials and religious leaders across Russia.

This close alliance between the government and the Russian Orthodox Church has become a defining characteristic of Putin’s tenure, a mutually reinforcing choreography that is usually described here as working “in symphony.”


14 posted on 03/27/2014 9:06:00 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: goldstategop
Without discussing whether Orthodoxy is even Christian, it should be noted that the Russian Orthodox church (ROc) in the USSR was and is the KGB/FBS. Please search 'code name DROZDOV' and 'code name Mikhailov'. Putin, ex-KGB is just paying back the ROc for work done in the past for the KGB/FSB. Putin is as much a Christian as 0.00 is. The persecution faced by evangelicals in Russia speaks very much to this. His support for the 'church' is confined to his KGB/FSB pals in the ROc, not for Christians! The ROc provides some level of control over part of the population of Russia and provides a 'cover' of 'christianity' to 'useful idiots' in the West.
15 posted on 03/27/2014 9:12:25 PM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian ( I once was blind, but now I see...)
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To: maine-iac7

Thank you for those links! They look like they’ll be very helpful for study...once I’ve had some sleep.


16 posted on 03/27/2014 9:15:03 PM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: WilliamIII

Read a little Russian history. And I didn’t say the COE wasn’t co-opted by the Crown. The English church, at least its heirarchy, hasn’t been a bastion of orthodox (small o) belief in any recent period.

I am not, in any way, shape, manner or form holding anything BO does as a model. That said, only Ron Paul sees a moral equivalency between American intervention in the world and Russian intervention.

The fact is that most Ukrainians have no interest in being Russian, the recent Crimean election (BO and EH just wish they could stuff ballot boxes like Putin does) notwithstanding. Ask the Pole, the Balts, the Czech, how interested they are in being Russian.


17 posted on 03/27/2014 9:17:52 PM PDT by RedElement
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To: WilliamIII

Putin has intervened with Syria and Iran. Not to mention his current moves to turn the Caribbean into a Russian lake.


18 posted on 03/27/2014 9:21:35 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: JimSEA

Where has Putin attempted regime change. Name the country. Meanwhile, we’ve done so in Iraq, Aghanistan, Libya - and Obama wants to do so in Syria. Yet you call Putin an imperialist. You’ve got a major double standard going, buddy. No credibility.


19 posted on 03/27/2014 9:29:53 PM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian

You equate Putin with Obama in terms of Christianity? Sorry, doesn’t wash. Putin speaks out against homosex, and gay preying on kids. Obama is trying to push homosex on the world. That difference right there is all I need to know.


20 posted on 03/27/2014 9:33:55 PM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: WilliamIII

No doubt I’m an a’hole for challenging the great leader. Probably I’m a closet Obama supporter. Putin has opposed change in Venezuela and is an opportunist in Nicaragua, Cuba, etc. You want to support those governments “of the people”. Putin is a Fascist, pure and simple. Just because we have a duffus for a leader doesn’t make me cheer on a Nazi.


21 posted on 03/27/2014 9:41:09 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: maine-iac7

btt


22 posted on 03/27/2014 9:42:03 PM PDT by expatguy (Donate to "An American Expat in SE Asia")
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To: goldstategop

politicians often use issues and themes that they do not believe in

for example:

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/03/26/6271916/fbi-california-sen-leland-yee.html


23 posted on 03/27/2014 9:43:32 PM PDT by Reverend Wright ( Josey Wales asks: How is it with stains ?)
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To: JimSEA

you don’t sound like a closet obama supporter — more like a closet mccain groupie.


24 posted on 03/27/2014 9:44:31 PM PDT by WilliamIII
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To: goldstategop
He is sincere about God in a way one would never hear from the old Soviet leaders.

A man sincere about God in the past would not assassinate rivals and reporters with polonium poisoning.

A man sincere about God in the present would publicly admit their sin and atone for it - as did King David - including accepting whatever judicial punishment is warranted.

25 posted on 03/27/2014 9:45:03 PM PDT by Yossarian
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To: WilliamIII
An article in today's BBC, quotes Putin's plans to reconstitute the Soviet empire since his installation as Yeltsin's successor. At that time Putin said, "Russia has been a great power for centuries, and remains so. It has always had and still has legitimate zones of interest abroad in both the former Soviet lands and elsewhere. We should not drop our guard in this respect, neither should we allow our opinion to be ignored."

He has been consistent in his intention to conquer the states freed when the USSR fell. First he brought Chechnya to heel and then he took a measure of the West in Georgia and found us wanting. Now he is moving to his west, just like he said he would. Our destruction as the power that brought the USSR down is all part of his grand plan. Thus the Caribbean basing agreements with those countries who also long for our downfall.
26 posted on 03/27/2014 10:20:07 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: maine-iac7

Excellent. I was starting to think I was the only one around here who gets it...


27 posted on 03/27/2014 10:20:28 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: RedElement

Putin is the best ruler Russia has ever had since Tsar Peter and Bork Obunga is the worst ruler any advanced state has ever had since Nero and in fact it’s worse than that. Bork isn’t bright enough to play a fiddle, we’re going to get to listen to rap while America burns.


28 posted on 03/27/2014 10:22:30 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: goldstategop

You are delusional. There is NOTHING to indicate Putin is a ‘believer’ in ANY sense of the word. He is , was, and always will be KGB. He is no more Christian than O is.

That fact that he will lie to you to get his own way tells you everything you need to know. He is brutal and dictatorial. Do not be deceived. He is a COMMUNIST through and through.


29 posted on 03/27/2014 10:26:17 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Slump Tester

I didn’t even realize she was still around.... but then after reading the intro paragraph I am not so sure that I was wrong


30 posted on 03/27/2014 10:27:31 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: goldstategop

The anti-Christ will speak of God convincingly too...


31 posted on 03/27/2014 10:28:48 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: goldstategop
You are correct. It is why he despises poofters as unmanly, and our Resident with them.
32 posted on 03/27/2014 10:29:19 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The tree of liberty needs a rope.)
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To: stormer
Hey, you forgot caviar. Just sayin.
33 posted on 03/27/2014 10:42:25 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed them like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: ansel12
He entered the KGB in 1975, so he was with them for a long time. I doubt all of his cant about religion. He's like Henry IV of France who said "Paris is well worth a Mass."

Obama spent 20 years in Reverend Wright's church to feign a sincere connection with the black community and to firm up his image a Christian. As soon as he's president, he governs like a pagan.

Putin, like Milosevic, stopped being a communist and became a Christian Nationalist when he needed an ideology to connect him to the Russian people. So he quotes sentimental Christian statements and poses as pro-Christian autocrat. Yet he's not stopped abortion, something he could do by ukase. He's somehow gotten fantastically rich with a reported $75 billion dollars. Obviously, he's not taken a vow of poverty. He's a fraud and a thug, and it's weird that a few FReepers admire him.

34 posted on 03/27/2014 11:20:49 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: WilliamIII

Putin is helping Iran get a nuclear weapon. What do you think about that?


35 posted on 03/27/2014 11:24:17 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: WilliamIII
You ask, 'You equate Putin with Obama in terms of Christianity?
Most assuredly, YES! Obviously, Putin shares more values with Christians than 0.00, but so did the old Soviets. They also spoke out about homos and pedophiles. Were they Christian? No! Speaking out against homos and pedophiles does NOT make you a Christian! Is 0.00 a Christian? Not by his fruit, but neither is Putin. By your criteria, Kim Jong-Un could be a Christian! After all, his regime speaks out against homosexuals and pedophiles, and does much more than just speaking out!

Putin grew up in the Soviet Union and left the KGB as a Lieutenant Colonel, having served 16 years. He didn't last 16 years in the KGB and espouse Christianity, else wise, he would have spent a long time in Siberia, not East Germany, liasing with the Stasi! Putin is a nationalist first and foremost. The question is, is the nation Russia or a reconstituted USSR! Only Vlad knows for sure. He continues to support the Russian Orthodox church, as his power base. The moment they disagree with him in public, he'll dump them like 0.00 dumped 'Reverend' Wright!

The KGB ran the Moscow Patriarchate. Patriarch Alexius II operated as an agent of the KGB/FSB, code named 'Drozdov' and the CURRENT Patriarch, Kirill I was and most likely still is an agent of the KGB/FSB, code named 'Mikhailov'. Who was it that recruited US Army Colonel George Trofimoff into the KGB? None other than Bishop Iriney of the Russian Orthodox church (ROc)! His name before entering the church was Igor Susemihl, Trofimoff's foster brother, an agent of the KGB. The KGB/FSB and the ROc is inseparable.

I hate to burst your bubble but the world is not just black and white. It is not '0.00 Bad' and 'Putin Good', there are shades of gray and the difference between 0.00 and Putin is minimal, like the difference between bull manure and chicken manure. Both are manure and we know which end of the animal they come from. I'll let you decide who the bull is and who the chicken is!

One last question, if Allen West were President, would you still consider Putin a 'good guy'?

36 posted on 03/27/2014 11:45:49 PM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian ( I once was blind, but now I see...)
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To: stormer

RE: “Other than fossil fuels and weapons, their only exports are prostitutes and mobsters.”

And smoker’s cough.


37 posted on 03/27/2014 11:55:37 PM PDT by zeestephen
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While Russia is the master of classical romance, it’s important not to romanticize its leadership.

Too bad Noonan snapped her rudder. She’s a talented writer.


38 posted on 03/28/2014 12:50:42 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: varmintman

>> I was starting to think I was the only one around here who gets it.

That’s a loaded comment. To avoid “guessing” what you mean, would you mind expanding on that?


39 posted on 03/28/2014 12:54:33 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: goldstategop

Putin has all kinds of reasons to publicly espouse religion - as a means of combating the alcoholism rampant in Russian society, of gaining allies, of establishing a sense of national identity, of getting Russians to reproduce again. Putin could easily be trying to use God for his own ends, and there is far more reason to think that he is than that he isn’t.


40 posted on 03/28/2014 1:02:44 AM PDT by Irish Rose (Will work for chocolate.)
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To: goldstategop
The Orthodox church was heavily penetrated by Soviet informants and agents. The younger of them in Soviet times are now in positions of senior church leadership and it is they who one must assume Putin is directing.

That Putin is also taking measures to suppress non-Orthodox Christianity is most telling as to Putin's purposes with the church. Putin helps the Orthodox church to the extent the Orthodox church helps Putin.

41 posted on 03/28/2014 3:06:13 AM PDT by fso301
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To: logitech

Noon an has it wrong Prince Vladimir was baptized in Kiev by priests from Byzantium. That is why the Main Street in Kiev is called “Kreschatik “ or baptismal street

She is still a clueless dweeb IMHO


42 posted on 03/28/2014 3:08:47 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: goldstategop
We in the West are in danger of forgetting the foundations of our own heritage.

In danger?

I think not.

I think it's already a done deal!


 
 
 
Mayflower Compact
 
In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth, 1620.

 
 
 

43 posted on 03/28/2014 4:48:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: RedElement
Read a little Russian history.

Oh heck: read WORLD history!!

RELIGION has shaped human history MUCH more than Politics has!


No; you would NOT have found this out by reading USA's education history textbooks.

44 posted on 03/28/2014 4:54:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JimSEA
I think Putin wants lebensraum; he's a lot like the little strutting corporal with all of his wounded pride and grotesque hubris. But he's more greedy; it's proved by his $75 billion dollars in the bank
45 posted on 03/28/2014 5:39:33 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: maine-iac7
Since the election of the one known as "obama" I have found myself on a sort of spiritual quest. I didn't set out on this path deliberately, but rather am more like a sleepwalker who woke up here in familiar, but unfamiliar territory.

Regarding the following, I have been reading and studying this for about a year now and am a bit more than half way through it. I admit to having doubts occasionally, but have come to more or less accept all of its claims as written.

It is from that point of view I offer a few of the Messages from True Life In God regarding Russia:

I Will Resurrect Russia As I Have Resurrected Lazarus January 4, 1988

Satan Offered Russia The Deadly Fruit January 5, 1988

Russia Will Be The Symbol Of God's Glory February 1, 1988

Prophecy: I Will Deliver You (russia) And Place You As Head Of Many Nations - The Earth Soon Will Shake And With A Roar The Sky Will Vanish September 9, 1992

Prophecy: Russia Will Govern The Rest Of My Children In Holiness October 20, 1992

Prophecy: I Will Lift Her (Russia) To Become The Head Of Many Nations October 25, 1992

Prophecy On Russia December 13, 1993

46 posted on 03/28/2014 6:38:49 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: GBA

The messages to the shepherd children by Our Lady of Fatima are more to the point and have been approved by the Church. IMO it is more important to promote those.


47 posted on 03/28/2014 6:57:58 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed "Elderly Kooky Type" Catholic Texan)
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To: nanetteclaret
I don't see putting these Messages "out there" as promoting, but merely as offering things I've found for others to consider and for others to decide for themselves.

Had it not been for the Messages in True Life In God, it's unlikely I'd have heard, let alone paid much attention to, her warnings, nor to our Holy Mother Mary.

I'm a lo-info non-denomination Christian and don't have the hostility to the many flavors of Christianity, especially toward Catholics or to The Church, as so often is seen here.

None the less, the Church sat on St. Mary's warnings from Fatima until it was too late to take them to heart. The same is said about Garabandal.

Satan has covered the world with his smoke, including the Church, so doing our own research and letting His Spirit lead each of us would seem to always be good advice.

48 posted on 03/28/2014 7:13:40 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: goldstategop
Russia's President Putin is an old-school religious believer. He is sincere about God in a way one would never hear from the old Soviet leaders.

April Fool's Day must have arrived a few days early this year.

49 posted on 03/28/2014 7:20:40 AM PDT by gdani
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To: goldstategop

Sorry, while I enjoy seeing him poke Obama, Putin is no hero. He is a Stalinist who is actively trying to rehabilitate the image of old Joe the mass murderer.


50 posted on 03/28/2014 7:54:26 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization).)
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