Skip to comments.Noonan: Mr. Putin's Revealing Speech
Posted on 03/27/2014 7:54:59 PM PDT by goldstategop
One of the strategically interesting things about Vladimir Putin is that he has been careful not to set himself against religious belief but attempted to align himself with it. He has taken domestic actions that he believes reflect the assumptions of religious conservatives. He has positioned himself so that he can make a claim on a part of the Russian soul, as they used to say, that his forbears could not: He is not anti-God, he is pro-God, pro the old church of the older, great Russia. ...
At the top, religious references. Crimea is "where Prince Vladimir was baptized. His spiritual feat of adopting Orthodoxy predetermined the overall basis of the culture, civilization and human values that unite the people of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus."
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
He despises their atheism as much as he turns aside from the amoral secularism of the decadent West. His appeal is to the vitality of Christianity and the greatness of Russia.
He has reconnected his country with the well-springs of Slavic civilization. We in the West are in danger of forgetting the foundations of our own heritage.
We are absent more than anything else - from the spiritual battlefield. We do not have answer to Putin on the revived vigor of the Orthodox Christian civilization in the East.
That overshadows even Crimea.
It wasn’t that long ago this bitch was telling us how wonderful Obama was.
Man, the things you guys read into this old KGB guy.
Shoot the messenger - but have you heard Western leaders speak of God, justice and the truth lately?
Man does not live by bread alone.
If that is not true, then Russia is in for a rough time and a return to the struggles of her recent past, just as we are now in our fall from Grace into Satan's embrace.
“....values that unite the people of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.”
Meaning: Ukraine and Belarus had better be prepared for internal strife and Russian takeover.
Putin speak with forked tongue, Kemosabe.
The restoration of the Cathedrals and churches
The Cathedral of Christ The Savior - holds 30,000 (The original was blown up b y the Communists)
calls for world leaders to stop the slaughter/persecution of Christians going on today - heard one peep about this fro OUR Pres_ent?
“...older great Russia...”? WTF, Peg - lay off the bourbon. I don’t know how far back she’s going, but Russia went from a monarchy full of ignorant starving peasants to a series of dictatorships full of ignorant starving peasants to an oligarchy full of ignorant starving peasants. Other than fossil fuels and weapons, their only exports are prostitutes and mobsters.
The Russians have been at this 3rd Rome bit for at least 500 years. The Orthodox church, for better or worse whatever its virtues may be, has been totally co-opted by the State since Peter the Great.
Putin is a Russian imperialist. Just like Peter. He sees Russia as the rightful hegemonic ruler of the world. It serves his purposes to continue to co-opt the church. As for any true desire for Christianity (ie the Gospel of Jesus as opposed to the institutional Church), look for a bit at how the indigenous Protestant denominations are treated. Atheism is far more acceptable to the gov’t than any dissenter.
There’s a lot of fallacy in your statements.
1. The Russian church is co-opted by the state. ? So is the Church of England. Does that make the queen a liar when she says she’s Christian?
2. Putin is an imperialist with worldwide ambitions. Really? You get that from what - invasion of next door neighbor Crimea? What about Obama going half-way around the world to impose regime change on Libya? That’s a lot more “imperial” than anything Putin has done.
who is more of a sincere Christian - Putin or McCain?
Ex KGB Putin and the Russian Orthodox, seem to be in an unholy alliance is my feeling so far, that feeling comes from the seeming militancy and anti-Christian efforts of the Russian Orthodox and the state.
Russia hasn’t changed, nor has it’s church, I don’t see this ending up well.
NYTs “STARY OSKOL, Russia It was not long after a Methodist church put down roots here that the troubles began.
First came visits from agents of the FSB, the successor to the KGB, who evidently saw a threat in a few dozen searching souls who liked to huddle in cramped apartments to read the Bible and, perhaps, drink a little tea. Local officials then labeled the church a “sect.” Finally, last month, they shut it down.
There was a time after the fall of Communism when small Protestant congregations blossomed here in southwestern Russia, when a church was almost as easy to set up as a general store. Today, this industrial region has become emblematic of the suppression of religious freedom under President Vladimir Putin.
Just as the government has tightened control over political life, so, too, has it intruded in matters of faith. The Kremlin’s surrogates in many areas have turned the Russian Orthodox Church into a de facto official religion, warding off other Christian denominations that seem to offer the most significant competition for worshipers. They have all but banned proselytizing by Protestants and discouraged Protestant worship through a variety of harassing measures, according to dozens of interviews with government officials and religious leaders across Russia.
This close alliance between the government and the Russian Orthodox Church has become a defining characteristic of Putin’s tenure, a mutually reinforcing choreography that is usually described here as working “in symphony.”
Thank you for those links! They look like they’ll be very helpful for study...once I’ve had some sleep.
Read a little Russian history. And I didn’t say the COE wasn’t co-opted by the Crown. The English church, at least its heirarchy, hasn’t been a bastion of orthodox (small o) belief in any recent period.
I am not, in any way, shape, manner or form holding anything BO does as a model. That said, only Ron Paul sees a moral equivalency between American intervention in the world and Russian intervention.
The fact is that most Ukrainians have no interest in being Russian, the recent Crimean election (BO and EH just wish they could stuff ballot boxes like Putin does) notwithstanding. Ask the Pole, the Balts, the Czech, how interested they are in being Russian.
Putin has intervened with Syria and Iran. Not to mention his current moves to turn the Caribbean into a Russian lake.
Where has Putin attempted regime change. Name the country. Meanwhile, we’ve done so in Iraq, Aghanistan, Libya - and Obama wants to do so in Syria. Yet you call Putin an imperialist. You’ve got a major double standard going, buddy. No credibility.
You equate Putin with Obama in terms of Christianity? Sorry, doesn’t wash. Putin speaks out against homosex, and gay preying on kids. Obama is trying to push homosex on the world. That difference right there is all I need to know.
No doubt I’m an a’hole for challenging the great leader. Probably I’m a closet Obama supporter. Putin has opposed change in Venezuela and is an opportunist in Nicaragua, Cuba, etc. You want to support those governments “of the people”. Putin is a Fascist, pure and simple. Just because we have a duffus for a leader doesn’t make me cheer on a Nazi.
politicians often use issues and themes that they do not believe in
you don’t sound like a closet obama supporter — more like a closet mccain groupie.
A man sincere about God in the past would not assassinate rivals and reporters with polonium poisoning.
A man sincere about God in the present would publicly admit their sin and atone for it - as did King David - including accepting whatever judicial punishment is warranted.
Excellent. I was starting to think I was the only one around here who gets it...
Putin is the best ruler Russia has ever had since Tsar Peter and Bork Obunga is the worst ruler any advanced state has ever had since Nero and in fact it’s worse than that. Bork isn’t bright enough to play a fiddle, we’re going to get to listen to rap while America burns.
You are delusional. There is NOTHING to indicate Putin is a ‘believer’ in ANY sense of the word. He is , was, and always will be KGB. He is no more Christian than O is.
That fact that he will lie to you to get his own way tells you everything you need to know. He is brutal and dictatorial. Do not be deceived. He is a COMMUNIST through and through.
I didn’t even realize she was still around.... but then after reading the intro paragraph I am not so sure that I was wrong
The anti-Christ will speak of God convincingly too...
Obama spent 20 years in Reverend Wright's church to feign a sincere connection with the black community and to firm up his image a Christian. As soon as he's president, he governs like a pagan.
Putin, like Milosevic, stopped being a communist and became a Christian Nationalist when he needed an ideology to connect him to the Russian people. So he quotes sentimental Christian statements and poses as pro-Christian autocrat. Yet he's not stopped abortion, something he could do by ukase. He's somehow gotten fantastically rich with a reported $75 billion dollars. Obviously, he's not taken a vow of poverty. He's a fraud and a thug, and it's weird that a few FReepers admire him.
Putin is helping Iran get a nuclear weapon. What do you think about that?
Putin grew up in the Soviet Union and left the KGB as a Lieutenant Colonel, having served 16 years. He didn't last 16 years in the KGB and espouse Christianity, else wise, he would have spent a long time in Siberia, not East Germany, liasing with the Stasi! Putin is a nationalist first and foremost. The question is, is the nation Russia or a reconstituted USSR! Only Vlad knows for sure. He continues to support the Russian Orthodox church, as his power base. The moment they disagree with him in public, he'll dump them like 0.00 dumped 'Reverend' Wright!
The KGB ran the Moscow Patriarchate. Patriarch Alexius II operated as an agent of the KGB/FSB, code named 'Drozdov' and the CURRENT Patriarch, Kirill I was and most likely still is an agent of the KGB/FSB, code named 'Mikhailov'. Who was it that recruited US Army Colonel George Trofimoff into the KGB? None other than Bishop Iriney of the Russian Orthodox church (ROc)! His name before entering the church was Igor Susemihl, Trofimoff's foster brother, an agent of the KGB. The KGB/FSB and the ROc is inseparable.
I hate to burst your bubble but the world is not just black and white. It is not '0.00 Bad' and 'Putin Good', there are shades of gray and the difference between 0.00 and Putin is minimal, like the difference between bull manure and chicken manure. Both are manure and we know which end of the animal they come from. I'll let you decide who the bull is and who the chicken is!
One last question, if Allen West were President, would you still consider Putin a 'good guy'?
RE: “Other than fossil fuels and weapons, their only exports are prostitutes and mobsters.”
And smoker’s cough.
While Russia is the master of classical romance, it’s important not to romanticize its leadership.
Too bad Noonan snapped her rudder. She’s a talented writer.
>> I was starting to think I was the only one around here who gets it.
That’s a loaded comment. To avoid “guessing” what you mean, would you mind expanding on that?
Putin has all kinds of reasons to publicly espouse religion - as a means of combating the alcoholism rampant in Russian society, of gaining allies, of establishing a sense of national identity, of getting Russians to reproduce again. Putin could easily be trying to use God for his own ends, and there is far more reason to think that he is than that he isn’t.
That Putin is also taking measures to suppress non-Orthodox Christianity is most telling as to Putin's purposes with the church. Putin helps the Orthodox church to the extent the Orthodox church helps Putin.
Noon an has it wrong Prince Vladimir was baptized in Kiev by priests from Byzantium. That is why the Main Street in Kiev is called “Kreschatik “ or baptismal street
She is still a clueless dweeb IMHO
I think not.
I think it's already a done deal!
Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth, 1620.
Oh heck: read WORLD history!!
RELIGION has shaped human history MUCH more than Politics has!
No; you would NOT have found this out by reading USA's education history textbooks.
Regarding the following, I have been reading and studying this for about a year now and am a bit more than half way through it. I admit to having doubts occasionally, but have come to more or less accept all of its claims as written.
It is from that point of view I offer a few of the Messages from True Life In God regarding Russia:
The messages to the shepherd children by Our Lady of Fatima are more to the point and have been approved by the Church. IMO it is more important to promote those.
Had it not been for the Messages in True Life In God, it's unlikely I'd have heard, let alone paid much attention to, her warnings, nor to our Holy Mother Mary.
I'm a lo-info non-denomination Christian and don't have the hostility to the many flavors of Christianity, especially toward Catholics or to The Church, as so often is seen here.
None the less, the Church sat on St. Mary's warnings from Fatima until it was too late to take them to heart. The same is said about Garabandal.
Satan has covered the world with his smoke, including the Church, so doing our own research and letting His Spirit lead each of us would seem to always be good advice.
April Fool's Day must have arrived a few days early this year.
Sorry, while I enjoy seeing him poke Obama, Putin is no hero. He is a Stalinist who is actively trying to rehabilitate the image of old Joe the mass murderer.