Skip to comments.The Ukraine
Posted on 03/28/2014 6:28:17 AM PDT by 2banana
The Ukraine as seen by 2banana.
The Ukraine had a free and fairly elected government (Yanukovych). It was a corrupt government that wanted closer ties to Russia. But we all don't get the governments we want. That is why there are elections. And elections have consequences.
But in the Ukraine - There were massive demonstrations in the capitol and a new unelected government was installed. They did not win any elections and went about changing Ukraine's foreign policy in a major way.
All this was supported by obama as legitimate because the people supported it.
Crimea didn't like all this and actually had an election and decided to change governments and align with Russia.
obama didn't like this and called it illegitimate.
Complicating matters is that the USA has a signed treaty with the Ukraine to defend its borders (in exchange for the Ukraine for giving up its nukes).
The USA also supported Kosovo to break away from Serbia with no authorization, vote or mandate. Because the people "supported" it.
It is no wonder the world does not trust America.
A Road Apple.
The Ukraine is Weak.
I think it's about time to put the hurt on The Ukraine.
Ukraine......IKraine....We All Kraine....
How about some footnotes?
A good concise summary.
The thing of most interest to me is this: “All this was supported by obama as legitimate because the people supported it.”
Try that here, and see what happens. (I speak rhetorically of course) Nevertheless, the fedgov is now on board that enough molotovs and dead cops serves as legitimate regime change.
For future reference. In other polities.
The "Budapest Memorandum" was NOT a treaty. It was a multinational agreement, and the Ukrainians were STUPID for doing it! You can be sure they would like to have a few of those warheads back right about now.
Russia's actions in the Crimea are illegal under any pretext, but I wonder who "the people" were who participated in the Ukrainian demonstrations. True patriots of liberty, non affiliated anarchists, or JBT's from Russia? The events that precipitated the Crimean takeover seemed to be too well orchestrated.
Bill Clinton signed it, ‘nuff said.
From the same people that brought you “The Dayton Accords.” How did that work out for Yugoslavia?
He, she, it kraines
Exactly!! Is is Ukraine, not the Ukraine. I have friends from there and it pisses them off when their country is referred to in that manner. It is like saying, the France, the Mexico, the Spain.
The notion the the pro-Russian government of Ukraine would have snipers shooting at the anti-Russian opposition protestors during the Olympics doesn’t make any sense.
The Sochi Olympics were meant to be a showcase for Vladimir Putin’s Russia with prisoners released ahead of it and so on.
Any crackdown on those protestors would have come after the Olympics, not during.
The whole sequence of events from the snipers on smells fishy.
The rapid overthrow of the presidency in violation of an agreement between the protestors and the pro-Russian government to allow him to stay in office for the rest of this year upset the apple cart completely.
That made Russian intervention inevitable.
The only silver lining that I can see is that Crimea was largely pro-Russian, and what is left of Ukraine is decidedly pro-west. A new political dynamic providing Ukrainian democracy somehow survives.
Maybe we could cede California and New York to Putin?
Like THE United States of America?
If it were the United States of Ukraine I would agree with you. It isn’t. It is Ukraine.
the country "Ukraine" = "Galicia" + "The Ukraine" (East Bank and West Bank) + "Novorossiya" + "Crimea" + "Bukovina" + "Carpathian Oblast"
There really was an area with fluid boundaries which was a borderland (okraina/ukraina) for centuries (especially 1380 to 1654 and later) between the Lithuanian, Lithuanian/Polish, Polish, Swedish, Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, and Russian Empires. That would be "The Ukraine" in English as a region, but that is just a part of the present-day country Ukraine.
That is,Ukraine is so much more than just "The Ukraine", which is still a valid historical term.
Small point. It is not “The Ukraine” it is “Ukraine” as in “The Germany” vs. “Germany.”
I know, it’s irrelevant, but annoying.