Posted on 03/28/2014 1:12:55 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
President Barack Obama is getting anxious that Russian president Vladimir Putin is on the point of invading Ukraine.
“You've seen a range of troops massing along [the Russian/Ukraine] border under the guise of military exercises,” he told CBS News last night. “But these are not what Russia would normally be doing. And, you know, it may simply be an effort to intimidate Ukraine. Or it may be that they've got additional plans.”
So far, the West has deployed its economic and diplomatic might to punish and deter Russian President Vladimir Putin from those “additional plans” -- invading the rest of Ukraine.
Yet the West’s strongest option remains untouched: Military action.
While Russia rolled its forces into Crimea, the West clearly has kept its armies confined to barracks. So far the U.S. and its NATO allies have merely offered Ukraine limited military support and have flexed their military muscles in other ways.
Earlier this month, as the crisis in Ukraine escalated, the U.S. announced training exercises in Poland for F16 fighter planes and C130 transport planes. And generals in NATO headquarters in Brussels are planning for what could come next.
An estimated 30,000 Russian troops are currently positioned near Ukraine’s eastern border. Russia’s defense minister assured his American counterpart last week that the Russian Army will not move further into Ukraine. But Ukrainians – and many observers elsewhere – fear a Russian invasion is possible.
“The force that is at the Ukrainian border now to the east is very, very sizable and very, very ready,” said General Philip Breedlove, NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander.
A Russian push further into Ukraine could leave the U.S. and NATO in a tight spot...
A Ukraine-Russia fight would be a rout...
(Excerpt) Read more at newsweek.com ...
“we must submit”
What are you talking about, “submit”? We’re not “submitting” over the Ukraine. Who runs Ukraine has no bearing on our national interests. That’s like saying you “submitted” in your next door neighbors’ marital spat because you didn’t go over and get involved on the wife’s side or the husband’s.
I’m glad Obama - so far - hasn’t submitted to the neocons like McCain who seem to want us to go to war against Russia.
The US and Imperial Russia had cordial relations, even though back then Russia was doing pretty much the exact same things in that part of the world as now. We didn’t seem to mind too much back then.
We can send a bunch of fighters, and some airborne troops. But unless we have a port they won’t last long. Poland will have to get get involved at that point. Luckily they’re already mobilizing.
Specific options, please?
I’d love to hear some, because judging by most of the posts on this thread, and considering that this is FR, this country is finished, and we deserve to be.
Does anyone see how no-effective-response-by-us plays out over the next 10-40 years? (Hint - it will involve nukes, but it is not a Russian attack on us that is likely to erase the US as a significant nation.)
If this thread is typical, it's not so much our military (which can still defeat anyone), it's our people. Our country as a whole barely knows what sacrifice, or even honor and integrity, is. (Some of the military, and a few individuals, not included, of course.)
Ukraine will fight... If they do not conclude they have been abandoned and have no chance. They’ve already been sabotaged by their past Pres. & others.
Do we at least return the value of the 5000 nukes they gave up, in return for our promise of protection? (1994 Security Assurance & later reaffirmations through 2009.)
One other thought: “Their own rules of engagement” could be disastrous. The Ukrainians are much more hi-tech, and oriented so, than most radical Muslim nations / people. Desperate Ukrainians going into a long term terrorist mode and allying with anti-Russian Muslims could be very dangerous, and not just to Russia.
While I tend to discount the danger from Ukrainian extremists in a free Ukraine, a partially or wholly Russian occupied Ukraine is a whole ‘nother ballgame.
We could easily deploy a few thousand troops into one or two positions that Russia would no doubt simply ignore. I cannot imagine them engaging in actual combat unless they are going to have reasonable expectations of support.
Given the current mindset of our current leadership, the Russians can easily count on no such thing ever happening, which reduces our most likely option to be bluster and saber rattling.
Which Obama seems to be willing to provide, exchanging showboating for domestic consumption for our remaining prestige and influence on the real affairs of the world.
"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” ― Thucydides
What if we gave the A-10s to the Ukranians?
I don’t think we can clandestinely place troops from Germany into position in the Ukraine. Any movement on their part would be known.
That’s why a drop by air strikes me as the best way to put a cannon fodder trip wire in Putin’s way.
In any case, I don’t expect the US to do it. However, on a different note I’m not real sure Putin and Obama aren’t working in concert.
I was suggesting open deployment. You are certainly correct that it cannot be done in secret.
Air deployment precludes armor and most artillery.
To me that would be suicidal. Putin would ignore them.
They would only be fodder.
OTOH, our paratroopers and Rangers are not without teeth. And this kind of mission is why they exist. They’re to be the first in and hold until the cavalry arrives.
An A-10 wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the air against Russian missile batteries. We knew that during the cold war.
Bush backed down the Russians/Putin. Zero is such a joke that even if we have an overwhelming military Putin would ignore him.
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