Skip to comments.Stopping Putin: The Military Option
Posted on 03/28/2014 1:12:55 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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>>nothing is stopping you from enlisting - and sending your kids to enlist - if you think its important that we go to war over Ukraine.
I didn’t say that. I said that America is a weak shell of what it once was and we can’t be the world police anymore. A lot of people wanted that for a variety of reasons and now they shouldn’t complain.
My feelings on the Ukraine thing is that Ukraine was part of Russia up until the last century. Most of the citizens are ethnic Russians. Let Russia have it. It’s not our business.
“But military strategists reject those options as profoundly unlikely.
No matter what Russia does in Ukraine even in the case of a full-scale invasion there is little chance NATO, or the U.S. acting independent of the alliance, will engage in a shooting war with Russian troops.”
A major engagement like this would give the Kenyan Usurper even more power. (Think Franklin Dictator Roosevelt or Woodrow Wilson.)
Never let a good crisis go to waste....
now they shouldnt complain.
Who’s complaining? Only people who want us to get involved militarily in a dispute that is of no consequence to us. I can criticize Obama for destroying freedom at home, but I won’t criticize him for being “weak” abroad - if “weakness” means he’s not being stupid by flexing military muscle against the Russians over Crimea. That’s not “weakness,” it’s common sense.
Bammy doesnt really care.
Neither do I. Why do you care whether the Russians are in or out of Ukraine? What difference does it make to your life?
Who would be stupid enough to join a coalition with us as part of it, even to stop the Russians?
Why is it any of our business whether the Russians are in or out of the Ukraine? At least why would this be something to form a “coalition” over, and face them down with tanks and troops - even if we could? We’d have to borrow money from the Chinese to do it. Don’t we have a big enough defitic as it is, and enough problems at home, so we don’t need to invent “crises” abroad?
“A Ukraine-Russia fight would be a rout”
Which would then turn into a war of attrition which Putey cannot afford to fund. Plus he would get to see his gas pipeline blown up on a daily basis.
>>Whos complaining? Only people who want us to get involved militarily in a dispute that is of no consequence to us. I can criticize Obama for destroying freedom at home, but I wont criticize him for being weak abroad - if weakness means hes not being stupid by flexing military muscle against the Russians over Crimea. Thats not weakness, its common sense.
A strong nation doesn’t have to start lobbing missiles at another country every time they disagree. That’s what insecure bullies do. A strong nation has a strong economy, moral people, is an exporter of food and other necessities, and is a role-model to the world—not a cop. Obama didn’t create all of our weaknesses. Its been an ongoing process for 30 years.
The leftist media is wringing their hands non-stop, whining, “what will we do about Putin?” Well, they wanted us weak—not just militarily but in every possible way imaginable. So now we lack the strength (and, I cannot stress this enough, there are more ways to be strong that militarily) to persuade Putin or anyone else to play nice.
The kind of thinking that “if we don’t want to fight them, we must submit” is the kind of moral weakness I’m talking about. A strong nation NEVER has to fight unless it chooses to expand.
Let Europe handle Russia this time. It’s their turn.
I could not agree more. It sickens me.
This old Marine agrees. Certainly NOT under the present CIC.
It`s time for the Ukrainian boys and girls to step up to resolve this one . If they have the will to fight an all out balls to the wall war, with their own rules of engagement ...turn em loose. Anyone who would like to suit up and go assist them...have at it.
“we must submit”
What are you talking about, “submit”? We’re not “submitting” over the Ukraine. Who runs Ukraine has no bearing on our national interests. That’s like saying you “submitted” in your next door neighbors’ marital spat because you didn’t go over and get involved on the wife’s side or the husband’s.
I’m glad Obama - so far - hasn’t submitted to the neocons like McCain who seem to want us to go to war against Russia.
The US and Imperial Russia had cordial relations, even though back then Russia was doing pretty much the exact same things in that part of the world as now. We didn’t seem to mind too much back then.
We can send a bunch of fighters, and some airborne troops. But unless we have a port they won’t last long. Poland will have to get get involved at that point. Luckily they’re already mobilizing.
Specific options, please?
I’d love to hear some, because judging by most of the posts on this thread, and considering that this is FR, this country is finished, and we deserve to be.
Does anyone see how no-effective-response-by-us plays out over the next 10-40 years? (Hint - it will involve nukes, but it is not a Russian attack on us that is likely to erase the US as a significant nation.)
If this thread is typical, it's not so much our military (which can still defeat anyone), it's our people. Our country as a whole barely knows what sacrifice, or even honor and integrity, is. (Some of the military, and a few individuals, not included, of course.)
Ukraine will fight... If they do not conclude they have been abandoned and have no chance. They’ve already been sabotaged by their past Pres. & others.
Do we at least return the value of the 5000 nukes they gave up, in return for our promise of protection? (1994 Security Assurance & later reaffirmations through 2009.)
One other thought: “Their own rules of engagement” could be disastrous. The Ukrainians are much more hi-tech, and oriented so, than most radical Muslim nations / people. Desperate Ukrainians going into a long term terrorist mode and allying with anti-Russian Muslims could be very dangerous, and not just to Russia.
While I tend to discount the danger from Ukrainian extremists in a free Ukraine, a partially or wholly Russian occupied Ukraine is a whole ‘nother ballgame.
We could easily deploy a few thousand troops into one or two positions that Russia would no doubt simply ignore. I cannot imagine them engaging in actual combat unless they are going to have reasonable expectations of support.
Given the current mindset of our current leadership, the Russians can easily count on no such thing ever happening, which reduces our most likely option to be bluster and saber rattling.
Which Obama seems to be willing to provide, exchanging showboating for domestic consumption for our remaining prestige and influence on the real affairs of the world.
"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. ― Thucydides
What if we gave the A-10s to the Ukranians?
I don’t think we can clandestinely place troops from Germany into position in the Ukraine. Any movement on their part would be known.
That’s why a drop by air strikes me as the best way to put a cannon fodder trip wire in Putin’s way.
In any case, I don’t expect the US to do it. However, on a different note I’m not real sure Putin and Obama aren’t working in concert.
I was suggesting open deployment. You are certainly correct that it cannot be done in secret.
Air deployment precludes armor and most artillery.
To me that would be suicidal. Putin would ignore them.
They would only be fodder.
OTOH, our paratroopers and Rangers are not without teeth. And this kind of mission is why they exist. They’re to be the first in and hold until the cavalry arrives.
An A-10 wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the air against Russian missile batteries. We knew that during the cold war.
Bush backed down the Russians/Putin. Zero is such a joke that even if we have an overwhelming military Putin would ignore him.