Skip to comments.Flight MH370: Chinese and Australian ships draw blank
Posted on 03/29/2014 8:00:25 AM PDT by don-o
A Chinese and an Australian ship have failed to identify remains from the missing Malaysia Airlines flight after their first day in a new search area.
The two ships retrieved objects from the Indian Ocean but none was confirmed to be from missing flight MH370, Australia's maritime authority said.
Chinese aircraft also flew over the area, north-east of the previous zone, and have spotted more objects.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
Maybe the plane is in Pakistan just like some people have said.
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I'm going with a brand new stellar constellation.
Maybe the stuff is old Tsunami debris.
What can you do with a civilian aircraft and 235 hostages? right! pack it with explosives load up the hostages and force Isreal as it heads toward them to shoot it down. Just saying
Even the smallest piece from the plane would be fairly easy to determine as in fact part of the aircraft..
Almost looks like the dipper in the upper middle of the pic.
How many Red Herrings are the "experts" going to drag out for us until someone finally has the guts to admit the truth?
Hmmmm, must be looking in the wrong place?
Well you know, I’m not jumping on the CNN “UFO/Bermuda Triangle” theory bandwagon, as the most logical and likely fate would be crashing into the ocean. But what are the odds, given all the technology that’s been brought to bear, that after 20 days there isn’t one single piece of debris?
And I’ll say again, when some very credible military experts with deep and covert connections said it was in Pakistan, that did not deserve to be treated with the same disdain as the crackpot theories on CNN.
The plane is somewhere. And so far the only proof we have that’s it’s in the Indian Ocean is the word of the leader of an Islamic county that has obfuscated and mishandled this whole affair from the get-go.
Almost looks like the dipper in the upper middle of the pic.
I’m left with the mental image of someone jumping up & down, stomping-of-feet, arms flailing, frustrated & enraged, yelling,
“Why can’t they find even ONE damned piece? We TOLD them where to look!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
and we might ask ourselves...
“who could potentially benefit from sending the serch efforts off on a wild goose chase?”
Has He made anymore statements, since they told the Family it was in the Ocean?
CNN is going nuts, they hype up every day and then they have to backpeddle the next day when all that has been retrieved is loose rope and styrofoam.
Maybe the stuff is old Tsunami debris.
But, But But, don't you remember the the liberal intellectuals in the media (intentional oxymoron) told us that was so hard to do now because globull warming had screwed up all the currents. And to by that carp we have to believe that all experts in the world are to stupid to keep track of current flows, you know their job.
Nope. Even if the plane did a soft belly landing, didn't breakup and maintained its air seal thereby permitting it to float and the weather had been doldrumlike the entire time, the search area is enormous. I seem to remember that based on the last signal received by the Inmarsat satellite, the initial search area over the south Indian Ocean was about the size of Alaska.
Now, let's assume the plane broke up on impact and further assume that any debris has been moved by wind and currents an average of 3mph. That's 3mph x 24hrs/day = 72 miles per day. In one week that debris will have moved 72 x 7 = 504 miles. In three weeks it will have moved 504 miles x 3 weeks = 1,512 miles.
After three weeks, any debris still floating will be widely dispersed that.
High. The region is enormous with little in the way of human activity.
How long do you think it would take to search an area the size of the State of Alaska for a piece of an airplane?
Not correct. Data from the British company Inmarsat is what indicated the crash site as being in the South Indian Ocean.
A relative in the Coast Guard described the amount and composition of the crap floating on the surface of the ocean, and trying to figure out what an object it is when a fishing boat out of Florida goes missing. He said if you are able to bring the stuff on deck, most of it is just garbage that could be from anywhere/anything-rarely is anything significant found right away.
That floating stuff in the Indian Ocean they are seeing from a distance-plane or ship-probably is everything from flood/tsunami trash to crash debris-takes awhile to sort it out...
The satellite and aircraft images show hundreds of “pieces of debris” and yet not a single one is there when the ships arrive?
Perhaps someday something will wash up on shore. If someone has this plane, I would think we would have some hard information about it by now. This plane is a complex beast and requires maintenance. If they have some intended purpose for it, they will use it sooner rather than later. It’s most likely crashed somewhere. How perplexing that a aircraft with state of the art communications could just vanish without a trace.
Debris spotted by satellite doesn't mean debris from flight-370. All flotsam will be called debris.
I haven’t seen that actual data, but I did listen to a video from an INMARSAT spokesperson who only gave a very general reference to having used doppler calculations to determine the southern route was “most likely”. He also added that this is the first time in their 34 year history they have ever attempted to locate a missing plane by this method, and went on to give a commercial for mandating the use of tracking systems like ADS-B (which I agree with).
My comment should have bee more specific, that the Malaysian PM is the one who made the absolute no-doubt proclamations. What I heard from INMARSAT was more tentative. Still, it’s a big ocean, and a crash at sea has always been the most likely outcome. I’ll accept the INMARSAT analysis, but I guess I just don’t have a good enough sense for why no debris has been recovered yet.
As I understand it, the last radar returns showed it turned twice, with the last turn heading to India. The only reason we are searching where we are is that the pings to Inmarsat were decoded and the time shifts proved that at some time after the last radar “paint” the dead or unconscious “person” at the controls took control and headed south. Or the auto-pilot
(HAL) took control. Am I correct?
Well, and see...they can’t ‘magically’ find the black boxes until they ‘discover’ something on the surface, now can they? /s
If the ‘southern’ route hypothesis holds water (pun intended), I predict they will find a debris field in short order and then, within hours, a “Got something!!!” (iow, a ‘signal’).
I’m of the opinion the USN knows exactly where the plane is and that these poor folks (the searchers) are risking their lives sailing through/flying over one of the most inhospitable patches of ocean on the planet looking for debris to justify the location that is already known...
It's really not perplexing. The state of the art communication systems are designed to permit communication if the crew wants to communicate. In the case of flight-370, whoever was flying the 777 did not wish to avail themselves of the plane's communication systems.
Excellent statement, and very well put.
Do you really think that the Israelis will hesitate to do so?
Do you think we would if it were heading in the direction of NYC?
Lots of pictures, but they aren’t finding ANYTHING.
My understanding is that the initial search area in the South Indian Ocean was about the size of Alaska. How long do you think it would take when searching from air and satellite only to find a plane that crashed somewhere in Alaska?
In the case of flight-370, any debris may now be +1,500 miles from the crash site and widely dispersed amongst all manner of other floating trash.
That's probably something that will change in these times of terror. If the operator wants to fly commercial service or fly into an airport, the plane must be hardwired to communicate whether like it or not. There'll be some kind of system in front or running in the background. No choice will be given about it.
It wouldn't take them three weeks to do that, though.
“Im of the opinion the USN knows exactly where the plane is....”
Probably everybody and his mother flying around in that area know where the plane is but were told to keep up the pretense of searching.
Allegedly aircraft are dropping buoys when debris is sighted and yet nothing is being reported to be picked up by any ship in the search zone. Then they change the search zone entirely so the aircraft don’t have to fly as far. This is just a lot of nonsense to placate certain people. Declare the plane missing forever and be done with this nonsense. It is all theater.
There is no way in hell the possession of a 777 airliner is going to be kept quiet, with ears up all over the world-and above it. Even if you landed it on a dirt runway, put it in a hangar in the most remote part of some 3d world country and used a fleet of skidloaders to cover it with treelimbs and trash like a landfill, something is going to “see”.
And you would never keep that many hostages shut up and confined either-there are always those willing to risk their lives to get out, and many had cell phones, too. The passengers would have been killed before hijackers tried to land that plane. I think they screwed up-either underestimated their fuel consumption, or were set upon by passengers/crew not wanting to be hijacked-either way, they are at the bottom of the Indian Ocean...
Depending upon the latitude, due west could be towards India. The behaviour while over the South China Sea may have been to move from one air corridor to another without attracting too much attention.
The only reason we are searching where we are is that the pings to Inmarsat were decoded and the time shifts proved that at some time after the last radar paint the dead or unconscious person at the controls took control and headed south. Or the auto-pilot (HAL) took control. Am I correct?
If the person at the controls was already dead or unconscious, why didn't the plane maintain it's present course? Furthermore, if the plane's flight control system was hacked and remotely controlled, why did the hackers select just flight-370? Why didn't they hack the entire fleet?
Indian Ocean trash is estimate to be 20,000,000 tons ...
Yes. Like I said “meanwhile on an airstrip in Pakistan/Iran” :-)
Let me add my other concern about the INMARSAT analysis. Based on the very cursory explanation given (and echoed by the media) they used doppler analysis to determine the frequency shift of the “ping” signal and then determined that the southern route was the best fit model for the data observed. What I’d like to understand is how exactly INMARSAT measured the frequency of the ping with such precision?
Speed of airplane = 600 miles per hour
Speed of light = 670,000,000 miles per hour
SA/SL = 9e-7 * 1,600,000,000 HZ = 1400Hz
This requires not just capturing the data (digital message from Flt. 370) but the exact frequency of that signal at the satellite’s uplink receiver. Was this capability onboard the satellite, and why would it be, since it’s not needed for normal communications purposes and satellites generally don’t carry any extra mass. Also, given that the satellite drifts in it’s geo-sync orbit in a figure-8 pattern, it was moving toward and away from Flt. 370 at the time also.
I can accept that INMARSAT would be able to factor out the station-keeping drift of their satellite, but to fully accept this analysis, I’d really like to see a breakdown of the data format from the satellite to ground that shows exactly how and with what precision the frequency of each received signal is measured, and communicated to the ground so that doppler shift could be calculated.
They have to drop bouys if for no other reason than to get a sense of ocean currents. At 3mph, any debris could now be over 1,500 miles from the original point of impact and widely dispersed.
And stuff is known to float for years, decades, even centuries from time to time, spending unknown amounts of time unremarked, stuck in the same long endless current, or in doldrums. The Indian Ocean has lots of shipping, stuff lost from ships is probably at least as big a problem there as anywhere. Of course, this search is going on in a place where the plane never was, imho.
That is a staggering amount-I wouldn’t want to have to dig through it all...
First, I don’t think the Malaysians have been forthcoming at all.
- If they are telling the truth, they are worse than the Three Stooges. The information they have given out has been consistently late, long after it should have been revealed to assist in a search.
- If they are telling the truth, NOTHING about this makes sense.
1. Everything was normal.
2. The ACARS System was shut off. This wasn’t accidental, this was deliberate.
3. The pilots said goodnight.
4. The transponder was shut off, this wasn’t accidental, this was deliberate.
5. The plane turned South and climbed to 45,000.
6. The plane dropped precipitously.
7. The plane leveled off an turned WNW, tracking a known airline route.
8. Radar contact was lost.
9. The plane flew for roughly 5 more hours, maybe more.
A. That doesn’t fit mechanical difficulties.
B. That doesn’t fit a suicide pilot.
If the Malaysians have NOT been forthcoming, then they are somehow involved in what happened. That makes me think pilot went rogue and tried to blackmail the Malaysian government over his political hero being jailed the previous day. Malaysians might have shot it down and are covering their tracks by distraction and ineptness.
It’s free publicity for INMARSAT.
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