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Russia’s Anti-Western Rhetoric Is Spreading (President Obama is Wrong to Ignore It)
Slate ^ | MARCH 28 2014 | Anne Applebaum

Posted on 03/29/2014 9:48:27 PM PDT by nickcarraway

TBILISI, Georgia—Halfway through an otherwise coherent conversation with a Georgian lawyer last week—the topics included judges, the court system, the police—I was startled by a comment he made about his country’s former government, led by ex-president Mikheil Saakashvili. “They were LGBT,” he said, conspiratorially.

What did that mean, I asked, surprised. Were they in favor of rights for sexual minorities? For gay marriage? Were they actually gay? He couldn’t really define it, though the conversation meandered in that direction for a few more minutes, also touching on the subject of the former president’s alleged marital infidelity, his promotion of female politicians, his lack of respect for the church.

Afterward, I worked it out. The lawyer meant to say that Saakashvili—who drove his country hard in the direction of Europe, who pulled Georgia as close to NATO as possible, who used rough tactics to fight the post-Soviet mafia that dominated his country—was “too Western.” Not conservative enough. Not traditional enough. Too much of a modernizer, a reformer, a European. In the past, such a critic might have called Saakashvili a “rootless cosmopolitan.” But nowadays the insulting code word for that sort of person in the former Soviet space—regardless of what he or she actually thinks about gay people—is “LGBT.”

It was an eye-opening moment. Like Ukraine, Georgia is a post-Soviet republic that has tried to pull itself out of the sphere of Russian influence. Unlike Ukraine, Georgia does not have a sizable Russian-speaking population, and Georgians even have cause to fear Russia. Since their 2008 invasion, Russian troops have occupied the Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, about one-fifth of the country. Russian tanks are parked a few hours drive from Georgia’s capital.

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: obama; russia; ukraine; west
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1 posted on 03/29/2014 9:48:27 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Ever get the feeling leftist authors are single issue minded.

It’s gay gay gay 24/7.


2 posted on 03/29/2014 9:52:49 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos

I thought colonialism was bad?


3 posted on 03/29/2014 9:53:32 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
When President Barack Obama told the world this week that Georgia, which has for a decade been striving with active U.S. encouragement to meet NATO partnership standards, is “not on a path to NATO,” he immediately strengthened that set of arguments in Tbilisi.

Idiot. And I just said that we are in serious trouble in foreign policy on another thread.

The Georgians loved President Bush, named a street after him, went all out to entertain him. I am not sure they will lean to Russia but we have lost a good friend in them.

When I was there in 2005 we had military everywhere helping them get up to speed to enter NATO. Now? Probably not.

It is becoming more and more sad to be American these days. Run Ted Run.

4 posted on 03/29/2014 9:54:29 PM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: nickcarraway

Conservatives east and west are cozying up.

No wonder Slate is terrified. A new specter is haunting Europe.

Its not Communism. Its all that scaredy-bogedy right-wing caveman stuff.

That liberal parents scare the living daylights with out of their kids.


5 posted on 03/29/2014 9:55:27 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: nickcarraway

LGBT just might describe the GiBLeT Government we have in DC. Seems like most of it is homosexual, Muslim, dirt-worshiper, or some other demented group.


6 posted on 03/29/2014 9:55:34 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: nickcarraway

A nationalist Russia is simply not the reincarnation of the USSR. Russia is not a serious ideological or military threat to the West. The West should be more concerned with its own economic, political and social well being.


7 posted on 03/29/2014 9:58:19 PM PDT by allendale
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To: nickcarraway

I thought Communism was bad. Now its religion, the traditional family and good old fashioned common sense? C’mon now.

Slate is embarrassing itself!


8 posted on 03/29/2014 9:59:06 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: nickcarraway
"Russia’s Anti-Western Rhetoric Is Spreading (President Obama is Wrong to Ignore It)...."

.... And just who do you think is starting all of the Anti-Western Rhetoric? Our dear leader, his mate and spawn aren't exactly the biggest cheerleaders for pro American values.

9 posted on 03/29/2014 10:02:52 PM PDT by R_Kangel ( "A Nation of Sheep ..... Will Beget ..... a Nation Ruled by Wolves.")
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To: R_Kangel

Obama and his ilk do not believe the West is exceptional, enlightened and unique.

They don’t believe in the superiority of the West! Me thinks Anne Applebaum needs to go look in the mirror.


10 posted on 03/29/2014 10:04:57 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: R_Kangel
It is frightening to read some of the foreign media.

They say now the axis of evil is us, Saudi Arabia, and Israel.

11 posted on 03/29/2014 10:05:10 PM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: nickcarraway

Well, John Kerry let us know a while back that the number one job of the State Department is to promote gay rights world-wide.

I have no doubt that any western installed leadership was probably pro LGBT. We’ve got to face that fact that the America we knew is gone - and in it’s place is some sort of monstrous pro-gay, pro-abortion bully.

Let the chips fall where they may.


12 posted on 03/29/2014 10:05:57 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: MarMema

The new axis of evil is the EU, the US and the Climate Change-Cross-Dressing Left.


13 posted on 03/29/2014 10:06:57 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: MarMema

.... They actually believe that once America caves and submits to all external influences and pressure .... the world will actually achieve .... World Peace.


14 posted on 03/29/2014 10:10:10 PM PDT by R_Kangel ( "A Nation of Sheep ..... Will Beget ..... a Nation Ruled by Wolves.")
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To: Mount Athos
I really don't think she's a leftist. If you read her book on the Gulag or her book on the Iron Curtain, you would find her balanced and well informed. She definitely made the case in both books that conservatives could agree with.

In the snippet above, she's quoting someone in Georgia who brought up gays when it had nothing to do with the topic. She's pointing out that this is how those who oppose a more integrated Europe in Eastern Europe slur people who want a more open society. Notice I didn't say a more gay society. You can have freedom without having LGBT crammed down your throat. Freedom and the gay agenda (political and cultural power for gays based on their sexual preference).

I've seen the same thing with these slurs on FReeRepublic. Point out that Putin is a former KGB thug (a Colonel with sixteen years of service), or that he's stealing from the Russians (he's worth $75 billion), or that he's a phony on religion, and you're called a fag, or worse a McCain supporter.

There are illogical conservatives who sadly cannot see that they're being conned by Putin. They think because he claims to be a nationalist (is stealing from his nation not the best evidence that he loves his country they must think), and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern, means for the dilettante conservative that he must be a swell guy working towards a conservative utopia. Never mind that autocracy and conservatism, don't go together. Never mind that if Putin were such a great Christian he wouldn't be helping Iran get a nuclear weapon.

15 posted on 03/29/2014 11:54:05 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: elhombrelibre
It's a good write. Most of my friends in Georgia will not want to get closer to Russia. Not this year at least.

But the point is that Putin makes Obama look like a 4 year old. We need a president with class, poise, and the ability to be out there with other world leaders and represent us well.

Run Ted Run.

16 posted on 03/30/2014 12:16:33 AM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: MarMema

While I’m sure the Georgians can be wonderful people, there is no way in Hades we should go to war for them, up to and including nuclear war with the Russians. Which is really what NATO is about.


17 posted on 03/30/2014 12:30:00 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: MarMema

The Georgians are not so much anti-Russian as they are unwilling to rejoin a Russian (especially Putin) led empire. They want autonomy. Putin aspires to drag everyone back under him.


18 posted on 03/30/2014 12:32:37 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: FreedomPoster

With the proper training and equipment, most of these nations could kill enough Russians with asymmetrical warfare as to make Putin’s empire building end very quickly. They’re is enough hatred for Russian brutality, arrogance, and imperialism that no one will have to inspire the many former conquered Soviet states to fight back. Unfortunately, Obama thinks he can get rid of Putin’s threats and malice with rhetoric and fairy dust.


19 posted on 03/30/2014 12:36:21 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: goldstategop
You can call the racist parties of France conservative and the anti-Semite party of Hungary conservative if you want. I am fond of conservatism and believe it's the best worldview. I don't want to associate conservatism with Putinism, crackpot racists in France, Nazi wannabes in Greece, or anti-Semites in Hungary.

I suppose your efforts here are not just to align FReeRepublic's conservatives with Putin but with all the cranks and weirdos on the right in Europe.

20 posted on 03/30/2014 12:39:47 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: FreedomPoster

How about for Japan against China then?


21 posted on 03/30/2014 12:55:29 AM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: elhombrelibre
My friends at least are pretty anti-Russian. Strongly.

They remember the bombing all too well.

22 posted on 03/30/2014 12:56:31 AM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: elhombrelibre

“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”

Do you really believe what you typed here — that Putin hates gays and that this is his dominant concern?


23 posted on 03/30/2014 1:32:48 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: MarMema

Are your friends anti-Saakashvili?

What do you think of Condi Rice’s book that says Saakashvili started the war in Georgia?


24 posted on 03/30/2014 1:40:34 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: goldstategop

i think you’re confused. it’s not just slate, but all left leaning operations are against traditional family and common sense

this is why they are despised by a majority of the world


25 posted on 03/30/2014 3:26:53 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: Mount Athos

Wasn’t there some exasperated newscaster last week who said he wanted a “gaycation” - that is, a vacation from stories about gays? I imagine they fired him immediately.

I don’t know what it is about the left’s obsession with gays, except that they see them as being the nail in the coffin for Judeo-Christian sexual morality and traditional family structure, which liberals apparently feel have been holding them back from true self-realization. Or something.

Interesting that even the Russians know enough to use the “gay identity” acronym (LGBT) as shorthand for liberalism.


26 posted on 03/30/2014 3:39:53 AM PDT by livius
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To: nickcarraway

It’s utterly absurd to suggest that opposition to the gay agenda or globalism in Georgia or any other country is being caused by Russia.

This is what being a liberal AND a neocon does to your brain.


27 posted on 03/30/2014 3:52:03 AM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Mount Athos
BLUF; he's an opportunist, like Milosevic.

Well, it's possible that his views on gays is like his views on Christ's church. That is, that he's cynical about that too.

28 posted on 03/30/2014 4:01:19 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: elhombrelibre

“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”

OK, if you’re right that Putin’s dominant concern is hatred of gay agenda, what do you predict Putin will do next with the issue of gays?

Russia currently has no laws that outlaw gay people or gay sex. (Several states in the USA have laws against gay sex)

Do you think he will advocate new laws against them?
Or maybe send them to camps or something?


29 posted on 03/30/2014 4:12:58 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos
I will have to read it. I think they voted for him but may have not been so fond of him later down the road.

Poor Misha may have been guilty of the same thing so many other countries do - trying to get us to be a big brother.

30 posted on 03/30/2014 4:25:22 AM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: elhombrelibre
“There are illogical conservatives who sadly cannot see that they're being conned by Putin.”

These people (I mean useful idiots, agents are another pair of shoes) apparently do not understand that there is no international conservative front. Putin supports Christianity ? He does support the Moscow Patriarchate as it is basically a department of Russian government, so a useful tool in their hands. Non-Russian controlled Christian churches ? They have more problems operating in Russia than in some of the Arab countries. Putin is against global warming madness ? Right, “green” idiots in Europe are largely financed by the Kremlin. Why ? They are pushing anti-coal, anti-nukes and pro natural gas (until it is Russian of course) agenda in Europe. Eco propaganda + corruption, that's how they made Europe a hostage of Russian gas.

Similarly, during the cold war, majority of those “peace” movements were organized and supported by Kremlin. Soviet Union was spending 30% of GDP on military but clowns financed by them were claiming 4-5% spent by the west was “provocative”. Why ? Make them weak. I wouldn't be surprised if today a lot of homo nonsense or Obama campaign were actually financed by Gazprom. So much for the shirtless “conservative”.

31 posted on 03/30/2014 6:00:36 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Mount Athos
I suspect that Putin is a homosexual, frankly. He has a lot of very queer attributes. And his admirers, too, seem attracted to his queer bait persona. Hmmm, it makes me wonder, are you gay? Not that there is anything wrong with it or the fusion of gayness and Russian chauvinism.

Hey, you're a Putinista. Go for it. If it serves his Imperial designs, maybe you can be his queen.

32 posted on 03/30/2014 8:22:29 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: Grzegorz 246

Putin’s queer bait; he wants the attention. Dude is a real pansy.


33 posted on 03/30/2014 8:25:57 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: elhombrelibre

“I suspect that Putin is a homosexual, frankly. He has a lot of very queer attributes. And his admirers, too, seem attracted to his queer bait persona. Hmmm, it makes me wonder, are you gay? Not that there is anything wrong with it or the fusion of gayness and Russian chauvinism.

Hey, you’re a Putinista. Go for it. If it serves his Imperial designs, maybe you can be his queen. “

OK, I didn’t realize you were one of the people on here who is big on schoolyard insults, wild accusations, and character assassination.

You had an unusual theory that Putin’s “dominant motivation” was being anti-gay, so I asked you based on that what you thought he would do next regarding the issue. Whether introducing new laws or rounding them up or something.

I don’t understand how that merits your response, but if it makes you feel with it, and the people who run this place are ok with it, whatever?

Have a good day.


34 posted on 03/30/2014 10:32:46 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: allendale
A nationalist Russia is simply not the reincarnation of the USSR.

True, in terms of geopolitical behavior it's actually closer to the old Russian Empire.

Russia is not a serious ideological or military threat to the West.

Certain pieces of "the West", say, Estonia, are not going to agree with the latter 1/2 of that. And if Russia is not a serious military threat, then, from a military standpoint, why not put troops in, say, Kherson, Ukraine, as a tripwire?

As for ideology, I am not so sure: We are as a whole more decadent and soft, not to mention divided, no?

More important though, is that any current Russian "threat" is relatively irrelevant. What will kill us is the logical progression of events if the US, and especially its people, are found to be lacking will and integrity, both by those with whom we have security agreements, and by those who are restrained in their agression by those alliances.

The West should be more concerned with its own economic, political and social well being.

Lack of either internal or external focus will be our ruin.

35 posted on 03/30/2014 10:53:29 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Mount Athos

Oh, well then, if you’re not a Putinista, I misjudged you.


36 posted on 03/30/2014 12:14:18 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: Paul R.

There is no question that Russia is not the USSR but it is also true that modern America is not the United States of 1960. There is no longer the strong consensus of faith, morality and personal integrity that once made America a stalwart to celebrate freedom and resist communism. Sadly the culture has changed. It is important to remember that the election and reelection of Obama did not happen in a political vacuum.

It is important to recognize new realities. NATO was formed to create a common defense against a triumphant, powerful ideological foe. It was very necessary from 1946 thru 1990. However that threat no longer exists. The United States finds itself funding and manning much of the EU defense. What is worse is those treaty obligations and NATO expansion, the United States could find itself involved in conflicts that have almost no bearing on the security and critical interests of the United States. For instance if one day Syria supported by Iran and Russia were to start a border war with Turkey, would it be appropriate for young American to die and American resources committed? Ukraine is a hybrid state. The Eastern sections are Orthodox and Russophilic. The Western sections are Catholic and identify with the West. Somehow the locals have to work out their own consensus.

The next thirty years will be critical for the United States. Sadly it does seem to be entering a post Christian neo pagan decadent multicultural era. Much has to happen domestically before it has the power and influence it once had.


37 posted on 03/30/2014 12:59:44 PM PDT by allendale
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To: elhombrelibre

OK, so back to your theory about Putin:

“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”.

Since you think that Putin is primarily motivated by hatred of gays, what do you predict he will do next?

Introduce laws banning gays or gay sex, rounding them up in gulags or what?

It’s not illegal to be gay or have gay sex in Russia currently.


38 posted on 03/30/2014 2:59:37 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Grzegorz 246

Would you agree that one of the primary ways of distinguishing between conservative and leftist is tax policy and the size of government they advocate?

Steve Forbes pushed for a flat tax of 17%, which was deemed too extreme by some of his conservative primary opponents.
Politically, it seems to have no chance of passing.

Russia today has a flat tax of 13%.

In light of this key fact, which would you say is more socialist today — Russia or the USA?


39 posted on 03/30/2014 3:23:59 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos
BLUF; he's an opportunist, like Milosevic. I think he'll figure out how to demagogue the gay issue. I don't think he'll outlaw abortions.
40 posted on 03/31/2014 1:17:07 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: elhombrelibre

“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”

“I think he’ll figure out how to demagogue the gay issue.”

Your use of the word demagogue implies he is using the gay issue just as a populist throwaway issue to gain power.

That’s not consistent with your claim that anti gay hatred is a dominant motivator for him.

Is he gathering power primarily for anti-gay purposes?

Or is his primary purpose something else, and the gay issue doesn’t mean much to him — just some populist issue to demagogue and gain power with?


41 posted on 03/31/2014 4:39:41 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: nickcarraway

I’m more worried about King Fubo’s anti-western rhetoric.


42 posted on 03/31/2014 4:50:23 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.)
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To: Mount Athos
Here is the whole context:

"There are illogical conservatives who sadly cannot see that they're being conned by Putin. They think because he claims to be a nationalist (is stealing from his nation not the best evidence that he loves his country they must think), and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern, means for the dilettante conservative that he must be a swell guy working towards a conservative utopia."

The point is that this is what illogical conservatives who are pro-Putin believe. Putinistas do not understand that Putin is a demogaogue. They see him as a devout Christian. In fact, they're gullible enough to see him as the great defender of Christ!

43 posted on 03/31/2014 4:56:02 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Which do you believe?

Do you believe Putin’s “dominant concern” is anti-gay hatred, or do you believe he is simply demagoguing the issue to gain populist power for some other purpose, doesn’t really care about the issue.


44 posted on 03/31/2014 5:17:23 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos

BLUF; he’s an opportunist, like Milosevic. I think he’ll figure out how to demagogue the gay issue. I don’t think he’ll outlaw abortions.


45 posted on 03/31/2014 5:26:54 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Okay then you didn’t believe at all what you were typing when you wrote this:

“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”


46 posted on 03/31/2014 5:37:04 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos

I’ve written this several times. You apparently didn’t understand. I’m saying that’s what Putin’s supporters believe, not what I believe. I believe Putin’s a phony. He may not believe anything related to Christianity or to what gays do.


47 posted on 03/31/2014 6:33:22 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: elhombrelibre

OK, so then you didn’t believe what you typed when you said being anti-gay was Putin’s dominant concern?

He’s just using it in a cynical ploy to demogogue the issue for other purposes?


48 posted on 03/31/2014 6:57:31 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos
His dominant concern is power and money. He's worth $75 billion. Again, I wrote that his followers, the Putinistas, believe he's in accord with them. A man who can go from working for the KGB for 16 years, a man who was KGB Colonel, who now says he's the champion of the Christian faith, is easily capable of using the gay issues as boob bait for dupes. I believe he's posing as a gay hater. He may be gay for all I know. But ultimately, what he says and does is not about Christian doctrine.
49 posted on 03/31/2014 7:01:51 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Your actual quote was,
“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”

You clearly weren’t referring to his supporters when you wrote that.

You were claiming that Putin’s dominant concern was being anti-gay.

Meaning all the power he was gathering was ultimately for the primary purpose of attacking gays.

Which directly contradicts your claim that he is simply using the gay issue in a populist way to gain power without having any real interest in it.


50 posted on 03/31/2014 7:12:59 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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