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Can a lawsuit by nine students topple teacher tenure?
PBS NewsHour ^ | March 29, 2014 at 12:00 AM EDT | MEGAN THOMPSON

Posted on 03/30/2014 9:32:51 AM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines

The nine student plaintiffs in the case – known as Vergara v. California - are challenging two main areas of state law: permanent employment and dismissal statutes the plaintiffs say make it difficult to get rid of bad teachers, and the seniority-based layoff system, which they say makes it hard to keep good, less-senior teachers during difficult times.

(Excerpt) Read more at pbs.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: bad; governmentschools; teachers; teachersunion; tenure; unions
Dear Teachers: When even pbs is taking notice of sickeningly one sided union practices then it's time to start reforming it.
1 posted on 03/30/2014 9:32:51 AM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
they'll worry about education when students start paying dues... after-all, it's for the chilrens
2 posted on 03/30/2014 9:38:17 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: Chode

You’ll have to go at least as far as Mars t find a Kalifornia judge that will go against any union.


3 posted on 03/30/2014 9:42:10 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

When I was in college us students referred to tenure as retirement. We had professors who missed classes, sent in grad students and were practically never available for anything. A lot of them had consulting jobs that took precedence over class. Some of them were just lazy and there was no way to affect their behavior. They literally had to be caught having sex with students in their office to be let go. Now, it seems even that isn’t excuse enough.

(Oh, a prof in Tampa was convicted of supporting a terror organization. They continued to pay him for several years because he had tenure and they were afraid of getting sued. As far as I know, he’s still getting paid. )


4 posted on 03/30/2014 9:42:31 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Hit reset, then reformat educations hdd


5 posted on 03/30/2014 10:01:13 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

A tenured university teacher is giving my kid a hard time, bragging how no one in his classes are allowed to make an A. For a Dean’s list kid, that is devastating. In my opinion, if no one in the class makes an A, the teacher isn’t doing the job and needs to go...The jerk also singles out kids he doesn’t like for extra reductions in grades. The school won’t touch the problem and refuses to discuss it.


6 posted on 03/30/2014 10:12:42 AM PDT by ArtDodger
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To: ArtDodger

Ask your kid if the teacher’s syllabus for the class has a grading policy. Also check in the student handbook if the university has a grading policy. See if the two are at odds with each other.
A provost will hold even a tenured faculty member accountable for violating stated policy.


7 posted on 03/30/2014 10:19:47 AM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: ArtDodger
The jerk also singles out kids he doesn’t like for extra reductions in grades.

I don't normally say this but get a lawyer.

Not getting an A in even one class can pull down your grade point average. And that will mean less scholarship and grant opportunities.

Not to mention the fact that it simply is not right.

It is just as bad for a teacher to give an lower grade then earned as to give a higher grade then earned.

8 posted on 03/30/2014 10:20:58 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: Gen.Blather
When I was in college us students referred to tenure as retirement.

I have replied on other threads, half tongue-in-cheek, that the primary cause of man made global warming is tenure of college professors.

And yes, I remember that scumbag professor at USF. A terrorist supporter and he still got paid.

9 posted on 03/30/2014 10:27:22 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator ( 2+2 = V)
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To: Don Corleone
100%
10 posted on 03/30/2014 10:33:53 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: Don Corleone

“You’ll have to go at least as far as Mars t find a Kalifornia judge that will go against any union.”

Oh really? Have you read Peruta v. San Diego? The 9th Circuit just overturned California’s CCW law, and in so doing, did the same thing in Hawaii. The RATs heads are exploding


11 posted on 03/30/2014 10:51:00 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: ArtDodger

A year ago my son called out a professor at his college for being stoned in the classroom. This pissed the teacher off and he started docking my son’s grades. This pissed my son off, so he started calling out the prof on other unprofessional behavior and the two of them got into a grudge match. (Yes, my son reported the intoxicated teacher and the admin did nothing)

The teacher just stared putting an “F” on everything that my son turned in and my son kept pushing the issue (with the teacher and the admin) until the end of the semester.

Right after finals, my son approached the teacher and said, “I know you hate me, and I hate you. I think you’re a sh*tty educator and you have no business in this classroom. So here’s the deal. If you give me an ‘F’, I’ll be back here next semester to make up the grade. And if you think I was irritating this semester, just wait until I have all winter break to really think about it and come up with a more creative plan. If you give me a ‘C’, I’ll go away forever. Make the call, but if you want to deal with me again, I *will* find a way to take your job.”

He got his ‘C’.

Sadly, he was one of the “nobody gets an ‘A’” jerks and a LOT of the Deans list and scholarship kids took a hit. My son tried to get them to rally as a group, but those kids didn’t want to make waves. They all felt it was futile and they didn’t want to deal with the backlash that was being heaped on my son at that point.

What hurts me is that it seems that the kids who have the most to lose are the ones least likely to fight back. They saw what happened to my son when he turned the guy in and what *didn’t* happen to the teacher. It was better to take the ‘B’ and not fail (in their eyes).


12 posted on 03/30/2014 10:55:11 AM PDT by Marie (When are they going to take back Obama's peace prize?)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Also, the course outline and syllabus should discuss grading policies: how many points, how the points are earned (exams, quizzes, papers and so forth) and how the points determine letter grades (94-100% A) and so forth. As has been point out if the terms of the outline and syllabus are violated by the professor, the professor’s department chair and dean of the program and the academic dean need to be informed.


13 posted on 03/30/2014 11:05:51 AM PDT by Maine Mariner
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To: Marie

One advantage of medium to large colleges is that no one prof is in path to graduate. Don’t like prof then drop class.


14 posted on 03/30/2014 11:22:21 AM PDT by jonose
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

If tenured university employees had it their way, any student who dared question the party ideology or orthodoxy would be arrested by the state, and be summarily executed for crimes against the regime. This goes for all students under the federal school system. I don’t call any of the teachers educational professionals, because none of them educate children, and none of them are professional. The best thing to do is systematically fire all school boards, and start over with non union teachers who are willing to actually to teach.


15 posted on 03/30/2014 11:32:52 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: Marie
While the professors have tenured positions, the university is a consumer oriented institution. They need customers to continue to fund the lavish lifestyle of not only the professors, but the grossly oversized administration (and those mega salaries for heads of those institutions..)

Anything that threatens the money train is something to handle immediately. Random protests mean nothing to the money train (they might attract the attention of local media, but that doesn't cut incoming students...) Protests during orientation and open campus events when perspective students and their parents are around DO mean something, and it takes seconds for campus police to react to such protests.

And there's your money shot as a student - look at the campus police abusing students at the campus - sure looks like a place you want to send your kid, right Mom & Dad? It is amazing how quickly administration will act, even against tenured positions, to quell such disturbances.

The other major target is social media sites that students use in their ‘research’ on campuses. Two small concerted efforts in these two areas can mean dramatic change done quickly, and are really the only effective means of protest for students.

For graduate students, there are many other paths open, but they should know them by now. I've seen one graduate student nearly get a campus stripped of their credentials through some innovative filings. The two professors who were standing in the way of their graduation suddenly found themselves in much different situations as the university moved heaven and earth to end this student's actions.

And of course, as another freeper mentioned, there are legal avenues. These are financial transactions and published rules of conduct. While courts are reluctant to return tuition, they do tend to hold universities to their own published rules. If a university has to defend against a tenured member violating their own rules over and over again, they will take action to see that they have much more limited options in how to violate the rules.

In the end, these are businesses. Focus actions that affect the business side of things, and they will change.

16 posted on 03/30/2014 11:36:45 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

These students are operating under false premise that California’s Education System is set up to educate children. That simply is not the case.


17 posted on 03/30/2014 11:39:02 AM PDT by Hoodat (Democrats - Opposing Equal Protection since 1828)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

We tried everything. The way the school closed ranks to protect this turd made us think his dad was a politican or the like..


18 posted on 03/30/2014 2:19:53 PM PDT by ArtDodger
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

I don’t think it really solves anything. It simply puts teachers retained in the hand of the administration, and they are themselves part of that same system. They’ll end up keeping the ones they like and ridding themselves of the ones they don’t like, and their evaluations will make it all look proper.


19 posted on 03/30/2014 5:05:02 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: vette6387

“...The RATs heads are exploding...”

Oh, the imagery...


20 posted on 03/31/2014 8:58:21 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Gen.Blather

Agree 100%.


21 posted on 03/31/2014 9:00:25 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: NFHale

““...The RATs heads are exploding...””

And doubly so since the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned California’s CCW law (and in so doing did the same thing to Hawaii’s)


22 posted on 03/31/2014 9:00:57 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: vette6387

RE 9th:

That’s a HUGE slap in the face to the left... that’s “their” court...


23 posted on 03/31/2014 9:53:09 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: ArtDodger

Sounds like a prof who needs serious re-training. I’ll bet his house is flamable?


24 posted on 03/31/2014 1:24:15 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: cherokee1

I can dream....


25 posted on 03/31/2014 1:39:04 PM PDT by ArtDodger
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To: Gen.Blather

I had an upper level econ teacher who couldn’t draw a supply and demand curve. Looked to me to be waaaaaaay past his prime. I reported it - crickets . . .


26 posted on 03/31/2014 1:55:04 PM PDT by Wicket (1 Peter 3:15 , Romans 5:5-8)
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To: Wicket

“I reported it - crickets . . .”

In my experience schools will not only cover up astonishing incompetence, but criminal behavior. USF knew they had a professor supporting terrorists. He talked about it constantly. They also had, while I was there, at least two professors boinking students in their offices. (Later, they were fired when it got to the papers.) You’d think they’d be concerned with the school’s reputation, but apparently nothing is more important than tenure.


27 posted on 03/31/2014 2:23:42 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: NFHale

“RE 9th:
That’s a HUGE slap in the face to the left... that’s “their” court...”

Now we in the “populous counties are being treated to the next CCW ruse. “Yes, we will accept your application for a CCW permit, but owing to our limited resources, you can expect to wait for a year and a half for us to get around to processing it.” Time for another lawsuit to force these Commie sheriff’s to do their jobs. Some are actually complying, but most have decided that “they still know better than the courts” about citizens ability to carry a gun. Still, one small step at a time, we are winning. And we can “thank” Leland Yee for “helping our cause.”


28 posted on 04/01/2014 9:23:55 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: vette6387

“...ime for another lawsuit to force these Commie sheriff’s to do their jobs. Some are actually complying,...”

Seems to me that the best approach is - work with those that ARE complying, join with Sheriffs that are already on our side of things (there are many across the country), and work diligently - make it your life’s MISSION - to replace those who can’t or WON’T do their jobs because they’re worthless democrat political hacks.

“...Still, one small step at a time, we are winning...”
Yes, we are indeed. Might not seem like it, but someone posted a graphic out here last year showing a map of states from 1987 onwards that adopted CCW. The trend is decidedly on our side.

I think there’s only 7 states left that deny carry.


29 posted on 04/01/2014 9:28:30 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: NFHale

“Seems to me that the best approach is - work with those that ARE complying, join with Sheriffs that are already on our side of things (there are many across the country), and work diligently - make it your life’s MISSION - to replace those who can’t or WON’T do their jobs because they’re worthless democrat political hacks.”

Agreed, but the real issue is that the preponderance of voters in those counties “seem to like” the idea of gun control. What passes for a “sheriff” in our county is some idiot who was a beat cop in city outside the county who came in when our last sheriff died (which was a good thing in and of itself) and BSed his way into office. He doesn’t have the mental acuity to take a bent dime out of a Coke machine, but there he is, nonetheless!


30 posted on 04/01/2014 9:33:01 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: vette6387

“...preponderance of voters in those counties “seem to like” the idea of gun control. ..”

I hear you, brother.


31 posted on 04/01/2014 9:36:37 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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