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NLRB ruling on Northwestern football players opens up more questions than answers
WaPo ^

Posted on 03/30/2014 10:08:42 PM PDT by chessplayer

And it’s not the stuff of revolution, despite the common-sense-defeating opinion this week from a regional director of the National Labor Relations Board named Peter Sung Ohr, who found that scholarship football players at Northwestern should be regarded as “employees” simply because their sport produces revenue and because football takes work. His 24-page decision that they should be allowed to unionize was a lot of senseless knee-jerkism.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Studying takes work. And non-athlete students create revenue for the college. So by their reasoning, EVERY student should be considered an employee and should be able to unionize.
1 posted on 03/30/2014 10:08:43 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer

They just formed a union to get an 0bamaCare exemption.

(hat tip to the Dennis Miller show)


2 posted on 03/30/2014 10:14:22 PM PDT by Zuse
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To: chessplayer

They’re also “assuming” that fans will consider continuing to pay inflated ticket prices to football and other sports. I definitely WILL NOT pay $40-50 for a baseball ticket that goes for $10 today. Maybe the NCAA should allow a stipend and call it a day before opening Pandora’s box too far.


3 posted on 03/30/2014 10:17:48 PM PDT by Skybird
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To: chessplayer

Did you think three moves when you posted? I was a a D1 football player at a perennial top 30( at times in the teens) ranked football school. Can you fathom the actual amount of time and sacrifice to get on the gridirion, nevermind maintain, the least a 3.0? I busted my ass not only to maintain my grades, but to achieve at the highest level fir a billion dollar athletic department. My tuition was artificaiily inflated because of pell grants and other social engineering.

I wasn’t allowed to have certain employment.

I imagine you could work and create income fir yourself. I was prohibited.


4 posted on 03/30/2014 10:22:01 PM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: chessplayer
if a football player is a worker, than so are the cheerleaders and the band members and the basketball players and volleyball players etc etc...

one a worker, there all workers...

and workers can have "sick days" and strikes....

workers pay taxes.....and the tax on a $60000 scholarship plus wages is going to be big....infact, if they get pay, then there should be no scholarships at all...

5 posted on 03/30/2014 10:23:14 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Skybird

they already get a stipend...its called a scholarship, and on top of that, room and board, transportation and all that glorification...


6 posted on 03/30/2014 10:24:19 PM PDT by cherry
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To: cherry

Good, tax all scholarships and pay me for the revenue we create. Got more insight? If I was punching a clock at minimum wage, I would have been fine with that since I (we)was putting in 50hours a week.


7 posted on 03/30/2014 10:30:14 PM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: cherry

I bet you were picked last in kickball.


8 posted on 03/30/2014 10:32:51 PM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: Skybird

I think the tax situation will arise very quickly and scare the crap out of most of the football players. If you toss in the free yearly tuition (figure minimum of $30k)....as a union guy....you need to pay for some taxation on it (to include state taxes). Once this gets explained....nobody will sign up and the whole dies as a topic of conversation within minutes.


9 posted on 03/30/2014 10:43:09 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: chessplayer

This is just another nail in the coffin of college sports, thanks to the Liberal agenda. All of academia is on the decline in fact.


10 posted on 03/30/2014 10:45:20 PM PDT by AdaGray
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To: chessplayer; All
... His 24-page decision that they should be allowed to unionize was a lot of senseless knee-jerkism.

The following post is from a related thread.

-------------

Fx News's "The Five" were talking about this NLRB-related issue the other day. But since they overlooked some very important constitutional problems with it for some non-obvious reason, I will fill in the void.

When patriots hear about vague federal laws and regulations, the example of this thread concerning unionization, they need check the constitutional validity of what they hear using a few key sections of the Constitution.

The first thing that patriots need to do when they hear about some questionable federal law is the following. They need to look in Congress's constitutional Article I, Section 8-limited powers to find a clause which would reasonably justify such a law in the context that the law is being applied to. And without even bothering to look at these clauses, there's only 18 of them so I have a good idea by now, there is no clause that would reasonably address non-federal government employment, non-military schools or labor unions.

In fact, an examination of Section 8 shows that the Founding States had granted Congress exclusive legislative control only over those entities indicated in Clauses 17 & 18 as examples, the Founding States also making the 10th Amendment to clarify that the states essentially have unique legislative control over intrastate issues which is what this situation is imo.

Next, even if states had delegated to Congress, via the Constitution, the specific power to address the issues of this thread, patriots also have to consider who is calling the shots concerning a federal regulation. This is because the Founding States had made the first numbered clauses in the Constitution, Sections 1-3 of Article I, evidently a good place to hide it from many citizens, to clarify that all federal legislative powers are vested in the elected members of Congress, not in the executive or judicial branches, or in non-elected government bureaucrats in the constitutionally undefined NLRB. And by establishing such agences Congress is wrongly protecting federal legislative powers from the wrath of the voters in blatant defiance of the previously indicated clauses.

Sadly, the reason that many low-information patriots relucatant ask, "How high?" when constitutionally toothless federal agencies like the NLRB shout "JUMP!," is because parents have not been making sure that their children are being taught the federal government's constitutionally limited powers as the Founding States had intended for those powers to be understood.

Again, patriots need to run a Section 8 checklist and also consider who is calling the shots every time they hear about a strange federal law or regulation.

11 posted on 03/30/2014 10:48:21 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: chessplayer

They are going to be in for a nasty surprise when the IRS decides their scholarship and support as “ employees” is income.

When I was an intern at Los Angeles County hospital , the residents tried to organize. The court case was hysterical. The court ruled that for union purposes the residents were “students” and could not organize. However for TAX purposes their stipend was a salary and taxable income. Lose lose.


12 posted on 03/30/2014 10:52:45 PM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: guyfromjrz
I am curious if you thought more than 1 move when you posted?

Form me this is a 44 year running conversation. My brother in 1968 gets paid 500 dollars per semester plus full scholarship while I busted and broke my body chasing a wet dream on the diamond. So yes, I know about your sacrifice.

And lest you argue, ah look at the revenue we bring to the university. Hmmmm, I can think of many students in academia generating revenue in research, patents etc. AND while they are not busting their body as you had to, they very well may be spending far more hours on their projects than you.

In my era, we used to call it "choices" while undoubtedly you call it exploitation.

In the end I would have never traded the choices I made with the experience I gained, lessons I learned, becoming a better person. That mental toughness I learned then is serving me now.

13 posted on 03/30/2014 10:53:09 PM PDT by saywhatagain
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To: guyfromjrz

And who the hell FORCED you to play a kids game?


14 posted on 03/30/2014 11:30:14 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: cherry

they already get a stipend...its called a scholarship, and on top of that, room and board, transportation and all that glorification...


Yup. They already get paid with a free ride via athletic scholarship. And probably get tons of spending money under the table. Then they take “tough” courses like Shoelace Tying 101. They are pampered, spoiled, and treated like royalty. Behavior by athletes that would get a non-athlete student kicked out of school in an instant is swept under the rug and tolerated. I stopped watching NCAA Division I sports years ago. Now it’s strictly Division II and III for me.


15 posted on 03/30/2014 11:49:07 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer
The ruling is preposterous, typical of the communistic labor theory of value subscribed to by most NRLB and Labor Bureau members, and will not survive the lowest level of Federal Court challenge.

The ruling if upheld would be applicable to nearly everyone who currently works for a college or university in exchange for tuition, fees, or a stipend. Football players are nothing special in this regard. Graduate students are doing world-class research and the ones who speak English are usually better teachers than the teaching faculty they aide or displace at a fraction of the cost of Professors. For every football player there are hundreds of grad students and teaching seniors, all working double-duty at least as onerous as any student athlete.

16 posted on 03/30/2014 11:54:03 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: AdaGray

This is just another nail in the coffin of college sports,


It’ll be interesting to see how full the stadiums are for the autumn 2014 season. Or if it affects tv viewership.


17 posted on 03/31/2014 12:03:01 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: Skybird

Under NCAA rules, students/players cannot get paid for their participation in sports. Otherwise, they are tagged as “professionals” and barred from playing in college sports, unless someone slipped a new rule by me.

Years ago, some college players earned money during the summers by playing in semi-professional “Industrial Football Leagues”, but were banned from rejoining their college teams because they were now marked as pros.

The NLRB is corrupt as hell and Obama is keeping it that way to please the corrupt leftist unions who are his sugar-daddies and goon squads.

Here is a chance for the Republicans in the House to hold extremely penetrating hearings on the NCAA, the NLRB, and the anti-sports organizations. Might as well kill three nasty birds at one time.


18 posted on 03/31/2014 12:58:16 AM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: chessplayer

If my memory is correct this happened at Fordham Univ during the 1930’s

The schools response was to cancel the foot all program

Maybe Northwestern needs to do the same for five years or so


19 posted on 03/31/2014 2:30:35 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

When this story first hit the national news about a month ago, I began trying to find out ANYTHING about this Rumagi Huma..the self-proclaimed union head. Who is this guy..and who’s funding him?..No luck


20 posted on 03/31/2014 2:56:18 AM PDT by ken5050 (I fear a world run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating)
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To: ken5050

Professional and/or collegiate athletes are/would be, IMO a NON-PRODUCTIVE society who offer absolutely “zero” (directly themselves) to our gross national product. they offer ONLY “entertainment”.

I do not support professional sports and will do likewise to college sports should they unionize.


21 posted on 03/31/2014 3:45:17 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: AdaGray
What's interesting is that most college sports don't generate enough revenue to pay for themselves, so the discussions about revenue, labor rules, etc. would only apply to football and basketball -- which, not coincidentally, are the two sports that have done the most to destroy the legitimacy of amateur student-athletes, anyway.

The NCAA is nothing but a huge racket when it comes to major college sports, so who really cares if it disappears?

22 posted on 03/31/2014 4:00:22 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: guyfromjrz

You made your choice. I was a D1 baseball player, and guess what, nobody complained about the time and work. You did what you had to do, or quit. We did not just play our games on Saturday afternoon. Our games were on all seven days. Sometimes we would leave campus for away games at 8 am, and return at 10 pm, on a weekday. Nobody cried. We were happy just to receive free spikes. Everybody knew the deal going in. If you did not like it, well the trades were available. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to play football in college instead of getting a job in construction.


23 posted on 03/31/2014 4:55:50 AM PDT by gusty
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To: gusty

The focus is on the you or the me, but the action is on the hidden agenda of founding a new union.

Members be damned........ the organization is the key.

What must go is the communist NLRB that gets orders from the terrorist richard trumka


24 posted on 03/31/2014 4:59:45 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

These so-called union leaders are heading to DC to plead their case to Congress this week. What I hope Congress does is pull all federal money from any college that is engaged in big time college sports. If they have the scratch to give away a few hundred athletic scholarships, where the hell do the get the onions to ask the taxpayers for money. It is about time we join the rest of the world where school is for education, and outside sports clubs are for sports. If the NFL needs players, let them develop them themselves, and pay for it. Right now the sucker taxpayer is paying for the NFL’s stadiums and paying for the development of their players to boot, thru public money to their minor league (NCAA) teams.


25 posted on 03/31/2014 5:04:06 AM PDT by gusty
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To: chessplayer

it may be time to eliminate football on campuses where players try to organize.


26 posted on 03/31/2014 5:12:42 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: gusty

Have to agree. This bread and circuses stuff needs to go.


27 posted on 03/31/2014 5:13:48 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: cherry

and laundry money, as I recall.


28 posted on 03/31/2014 5:15:23 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: guyfromjrz

It’s a shame you never learned to spell the word “for.”


29 posted on 03/31/2014 5:23:51 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave

Ha, it is shame, gee how am I ever going to take my next breath of air because auto spell went with “fir”, rather than four, I mean fore, no I mean for. But, I think a person such as yourself , presumably, with your grandstanding of high aptitude and intelligence could infer the intended word was “for”.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, it is a serviceable message that will get me through the day.

I am a priveldged dumb Jock, whom reached the rank of Staff Seargant in USMC within a four enlistment.

Thanks again, have a good one.


30 posted on 03/31/2014 8:35:38 AM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: guyfromjrz

No problem.

Most speakers of the language today do not try to use the word “whom.” So it is entirely OK for you to use “who” in all cases.

“Whom” should be reserved for those who know when to use it.


31 posted on 03/31/2014 8:51:53 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: chessplayer

Econimcs did. And your right, I entered college at the age of 22, after a 4 year enlistment in the USMC. I got to play a kids game under the guise of sponsored education.

A scholarship athlete had its perks, but it also has cons. Two days before game, your basically segregated from the entire student body. I loved having to fly out on Wednesday for a Thursday night game, come back Friday morning, and catching up with tutors all weekend while getting treatment from getting nailed by 300+ lb animals whom had zero ambitions on graduating.

It is a honor to get/be on scholarship, but what if I was on academic scholarship, didn’t need the athletic and felt my talents are monitorized by the NCAA, way beyond what kids game should be valued. Would I do it again the same exact way, yes. But, there is something just incrediblly disfunctionalable about the entire erangment. Playing D1 NCAA college footbal is a 10 month, 2,300 hour dedication, I was not permitted to have job. I did not have a car, because I had no income stream.

My attire was athletic department issued sweats/shirts/shorts. I needed a suit; I was forced to liquidate savings. Savings that I made by collecting scrap metal for a few weeks when I was at my mom and dad’s in the summer.

I had no idea the expections I had to fullfill for a scholarship.

And the stippen? 300 a month. I made a phone calls from Boston to exotic NJ; a 20 minute call was 10 dollars at the time. If I was aloud to work and some money above the meager threshold, I could deal with that.

Maybe get rid of scholarships and just pay the athletes whom generate millions per year at that institution.

Please excuse the typos, I’m using a smartphone with cracked screen.

Ultimately, no one forced to play, I did it under my freewill, but I did have to compromise a lifestyle.

I think the kids should get paid, especially the football and hoops programs from the TV revenue. My likeness is used with aggregious consent.

Its just my view and so understand the other side of the narrative.


32 posted on 03/31/2014 9:18:50 AM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: Alberta's Child

I concur.


33 posted on 03/31/2014 9:22:27 AM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: saywhatagain

I understand your view; I can’t stand fostered victimization.
No one forced me to do it, and it was 120,000 to 150,000 dollar scholarship. My education of stats and economic benefited me, and led me on a career path.

But, academics is full-time task, couple that with a d1 football program, the university got revenue dollars on a nickel and I was forced I to a level of living just above poverty.
I had no idea the demand.


34 posted on 03/31/2014 9:33:31 AM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: SoothingDave

Thank you. I suck at grammer. Never applied myself. I do math and actuaries. It is half embarrassing some times, I think I’m gonna work on that. I need to become a better writer and communicator.

I don’t think I would have gained entrance to BC on academics, and I did need heavy tutorial g. I honestly had no business taking a seat from a more qualified student. I can admit that.

:)


35 posted on 03/31/2014 9:42:22 AM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: guyfromjrz

Question. If you are an employee of a University because of your sport, and thus you get paid for playing your sport, doesn’t that make you a professional in that sport? And if you are a professional in a sport, doesn’t the NCAA forbid you from playing that sport against amateurs? So if you form a union for playing sports, you give up your amateur status and can’t play that sport in college.


36 posted on 03/31/2014 9:43:38 AM PDT by mike70
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To: guyfromjrz

Sorry, I was being a little bit snotty.

Here is a legitimate tip: Use “who” where you would use “he” and “whom” where you would use “him.”

Or, like I said originally, just use “who” all the time like 95% of native English speakers.


37 posted on 03/31/2014 9:49:52 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: chessplayer
If you look at what the players are demanding it doesn't seem to me to be a big threat to tne NCAA. They want more study on the long term effects of concussions. They want guarantees of continued medical care after they leave school for injuries suffered during their football careers at the school. They want a piece of the action if their name and their likeness are being sold on souvenirs. And they want scholarships to continue till graduation if a player has a career-ending injury during a game or practice. They aren't demanding a salary. Considering they're the ones putting their bodies on the line so the schools can reap tons of money I don't think their demands are out of line.
38 posted on 03/31/2014 9:52:09 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg

If you look at what the players are demanding it doesn’t seem to me to be a big threat to tne NCAA


The NW kids are leftist tools. Of course those pushing their buttons won’t lay out the entire agenda right now. They just want to get the collective bargaining camel nose in the tent right now. Later there will be demands for pro athlete style pay and perks.


39 posted on 03/31/2014 9:56:05 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: mike70

Great points. Instead of antiquated rules and regs, new solutions & destinations should established. Start from scratch.the whole thing.


40 posted on 03/31/2014 10:05:55 AM PDT by guyfromjrz (fresh breath, it speaks for itself.)
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To: chessplayer

The decision said that rendering exclusive services in exchange for pay is “employment” and you can’t make it not employment by calling the pay “scholarships.” It’s a non-ideological decision and if Congress doesn’t like it they can either explicitly define scholarships as non-employment no matter what the services conditions they impose, or they can simply provide that student-employees of private universities have no collective bargaining rights.


41 posted on 03/31/2014 10:41:38 AM PDT by only1percent
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To: Alberta's Child

The NCAA is nothing but a huge racket when it comes to major college sports, so who really cares if it disappears?


NCAA Division I has been ruined by it’s own success. Divisions II and III are still good. And I like the NAIA.


42 posted on 03/31/2014 12:12:02 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: guyfromjrz
"I had no idea the demand."

That thought brought back a rush of memories. Absolutely understand that emotion. I too, and most others not properly prepared for the demands and expectations required.

I had to smile reading another one of your comments where you say they need to come up with new rules for an antiquated system (my words). My college roommate said the same exact words in 1974. Long time issue.

Sadly, everything else i observe around me with todays generation, the solutions are only making the problem(s) worse.

Take the money out of the programs and most of the problems go away. Is one solution. Of course not practical.

43 posted on 03/31/2014 3:21:39 PM PDT by saywhatagain
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