Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is the U.S. stock market rigged?
CBS News ^ | March 30, 2014 | Steve Kroft

Posted on 03/31/2014 12:26:58 PM PDT by C19fan

This month marks the fifth anniversary of the current bull market on Wall Street, making it one of the longest and strongest in history. Yet U.S. stock ownership is at a record low and less than half of Americans trust banks and financial services. And in the last two weeks, the New York attorney general and the Commodities Futures Trading Commission in Washington have both launched investigations into high-frequency computerized stock trading that now controls more than half the market.

(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; US: New Jersey; US: New York
KEYWORDS: exchanges; stocks; wall
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last
If you a small fish actively trading you will be crushed by the big boys. I knew about this manipulation listening to the Coffee&Markets podcast at Redstate. One of the regulars who works in the intersection of IT and finance commented there is no place for the small retail investor on Wall Street anymore because of stuff like this.
1 posted on 03/31/2014 12:26:58 PM PDT by C19fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Saw them talking about this on FOX this morning too.

The consensus was yes but tough noogies.


2 posted on 03/31/2014 12:29:05 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Is the pope catholic?


3 posted on 03/31/2014 12:30:16 PM PDT by Texicanus (Texas, it's a whole 'nother country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Duh.


4 posted on 03/31/2014 12:33:27 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan
None of the info about HFT is new, been known publicly for several years, just another way to scam the little fish. Milli- and micro-second trades are entered and pulled (for their manipulation effect) before the little guy's trade can get executed. In fact, even before a big non-HFT trade can be executed.

All this is no where near as important as the central bank bubble, though.

5 posted on 03/31/2014 12:35:04 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

From a long lost Day Trader....”The Masses Lose their A**es”

NYSE: A well developed con job


6 posted on 03/31/2014 12:35:41 PM PDT by Regulator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

That’s kinda the whole base philosophy of stocks.

Manipulation, timing, luck, and even a little actual reality for show.


7 posted on 03/31/2014 12:36:15 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Regulator

My chances would be better at a casino.


8 posted on 03/31/2014 12:38:09 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

There is a distinction between small stock investors who buy and hold for long term gains, and small traders, who aim to make many small, quick gains and must compete with the market distorting manipulations of large traders. Cautious small investors can do well, sometimes remarkably well.


9 posted on 03/31/2014 12:41:26 PM PDT by Rockingham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

I don’t think it’s really rigged. The HFT traders do make profits. In effect, they skim a bit, and I think the practical effect of this is to widen the bid-ask spread a bit. The market is still a lot more fair than 30 or 40 years ago when there was a mandatory bid-ask spread quoted in fractions of a dollar, and the brokers pocketed the difference. Now, the brokers and market makers are dealing in penny spreads... and yeah, the HFT guys pick up some... but regular investors are a lot better off than they used to be.


10 posted on 03/31/2014 12:45:09 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Don’t forget about the stimulas money that banks get for negligible interest rates to use for free in the stock market to make billions . When it all comes crashing down it won’t be pretty.


11 posted on 03/31/2014 12:50:11 PM PDT by lucky american (Progressives are attacking our rights and y'all will sit there and take it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Long term buy and hold with dollar cost averaging has left me with more net worth than if I had put the money in the bank or CDs all these years.

Yes, the past 13 years have been pretty miserable as a buy and holder, but so have banks and CDs.

And yes, the market is rigged, which is where the big profits are. It is there for the big corporate guys to rob the small investor, like in 2008-2009, when so many small investors sold short, pulling out their money when the market was way down.

People that stayed all in when the market was down came out fine. In my case, I got all out at around the peak and stayed out, so I am fine too.

But yes, the market is rigged and plenty of small investors get greedy too late to make good profits and scare too easily after big sell offs. They are basically buying high and selling low and transfer their money to the big corporate guys.


12 posted on 03/31/2014 12:53:24 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine
It only takes a month of watching the last two hours of daily trading in the US. If that doesn’t convince you it is rigged them I have a bridge to sell you.
13 posted on 03/31/2014 12:54:07 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: mad_as_he$$
It only takes a month of watching the last two hours of daily trading in the US. If that doesn’t convince you it is rigged them I have a bridge to sell you

How so? If it trends up... or down... in a predictable manner... you can make a fortune anticipating it. I don't believe you can, though.

14 posted on 03/31/2014 12:56:06 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: C19fan
Is the U.S. stock market rigged?

Can there be any doubt ?????????????????

15 posted on 03/31/2014 12:57:16 PM PDT by PraiseTheLord (have you seen the fema camps, shackle box cars, thousands of guillotines, stacks of coffins ~)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Yes.


16 posted on 03/31/2014 12:58:16 PM PDT by TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed (Yahuah Yahusha)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan
I worked on stock monitoring systems and Fidelity and had to follow transactions during the day. I noticed that hours or a day before major announcements many issues had a coincidental blip.

Yeah it's wired for some. Just look at Congressmen's net worth before and after they leave DC.

17 posted on 03/31/2014 12:59:03 PM PDT by AU72
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine

Much more fair then when Joe Kennedy made a fortune kitting stocks.


18 posted on 03/31/2014 1:02:10 PM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: C19fan
Yet U.S. stock ownership is at a record low

Where do you think our trade deficit dollars end up? Our government penalizes the heck out of any foreign entity wishing to invest in a US business start up or real estate. Yet that same foreign entity can purchase stock online without being hit with all the regulation.

When you put Goldman Sachs in charge of our monetary system, you can expect them to rig the game in their favor.

19 posted on 03/31/2014 1:02:50 PM PDT by Hoodat (Democrats - Opposing Equal Protection since 1828)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

The HFTs function as toll booths. They do their best to get a little bit out of each trade by front running it. Could be a nickle collected over billions of trades a year.

Front running means their computer program has ways of anticipating a trade. So the HFTs buy that stock and sell it to you for a few pennies more than you would have paid otherwise. This takes place in a fraction of a second.
Do this a millions of times a day and you are rich


20 posted on 03/31/2014 1:03:00 PM PDT by dennisw (Lenovo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

YES..... people are buying stuff(actual assets) with currency created fiat.... out of nothing..

Almost as much cotton candy bull sperm as currently being inseminated by the White House..
Not as much but almost as much..


21 posted on 03/31/2014 1:06:17 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texicanus

Hillary got “lucky” in the cattle futures market.

Many of our congressmen got “lucky” in the stock markets while in office. Enough to retire as millionaires.

Soros and other big boy billionaires know the markets inside and out and how to influence them.

It’s difficult to compete against insider trading and instantaneous computer-generated transactions.

If you know the markets better than these guys, go for it.

As for me, I’m going to play the lottery or casinos where I know my chances (statistically). Who knows, I might get “lucky”, if lightening strikes once or twice. /s


22 posted on 03/31/2014 1:07:58 PM PDT by Texicanus (Texas, it's a whole 'nother country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine
Watch the money flows and you can even see when the banks run out of money on some days to support a stock with massive selling pressure. Also if you put up the 30 ind on one screen it is easy to see how they are swung to hold the price of the DJIA.
23 posted on 03/31/2014 1:08:34 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Of course it’s rigged. And this is the reason people started day trading.


24 posted on 03/31/2014 1:08:42 PM PDT by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

 

"Stock market's rigged. The United States stock market, the most iconic market in global capitalism is rigged."


25 posted on 03/31/2014 1:11:40 PM PDT by expat_panama (Arguing with those who have renounced reason is like giving medicine to the dead. --Thomas Paine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Resolute Conservative

It’s been years, but I read the biography of William Boyce Thompson, who had gotten rich as an owner of copper mines. He was a director of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York from 1914 to 1919 and was twice (1916 and 1920) a delegate to the Republican National Convention. He quit the mining business and had a seat on the New York Stock Exchange. He reportedly said he was going to New York to, “shear the sheep”.

I was reading about his involvement with the Red Cross mission to Russia. This was a means for Wall Street to finance the Bolsheviks.


26 posted on 03/31/2014 1:14:56 PM PDT by Dalberg-Acton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: C19fan
Is the market rigged? Doubtful...there are too many institutional investors and hedge funds who are not in on the rigging but still make a great return.

Do institutional investors manipulate hysterical retail investors for profit in certain sectors? Absolutely!

That said, if you are not hysterical and are not easily manipulated, you can do well in ETF's (which own a basket of stocks). Of course, you must choose the right ETF.

27 posted on 03/31/2014 1:15:11 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama LImbo: " How low-down can you go?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan
Is the U.S. stock market rigged?

YES

I realized that in the late 60s early 70s. Things have just deteriorated since then.
The only real "option" for outsiders is through participation in large, well managed mutual funds.

28 posted on 03/31/2014 1:15:37 PM PDT by publius911 ( At least Nixon had the good g race to resign!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Rigged? No. Heavily manipulated, yes.


29 posted on 03/31/2014 1:19:10 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: publius911
The only real "option" for outsiders is through participation in large, well managed mutual funds.

Why buy and pay for mutual funds and their managers when you can buy the broad market, or the S&P, or the NASDAQ with an ETF which outperforms such mutual funds.

30 posted on 03/31/2014 1:21:01 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama LImbo: " How low-down can you go?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: mad_as_he$$

Oh, it’s true there are individual manipulative plays. But, I’m not sure they really matter. Stocks usually reach the floor if they’re worthless. But the market as a whole... I think it works.

One of the best things Graham said, repeated by Buffett, was that in the short run, the market is a voting machine; in the long run, it’s a weighing machine. I’m not a short-term trader, myself.


31 posted on 03/31/2014 1:22:39 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

P.S. We know the markets are manipulated when Jim Cramer on live TV says he can tank Wal-Mart stock...then does.


32 posted on 03/31/2014 1:23:10 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rockingham
There is a distinction between small stock investors who buy and hold for long term gains, and small traders, who aim to make many small, quick gains and must compete with the market distorting manipulations of large traders. Cautious small investors can do well, sometimes remarkably well.

I place my wife and myself in the "remarably" well class over the past 5 years and over the past 40 years, very well.

Perhaps the super rich do better over all but we are happy with our gains.

33 posted on 03/31/2014 1:26:11 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (God is not the author of confusion. 1 Cor 13: 33)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Buying a security is like betting in a casino. The house has the odds, but they occasionally allow someone to win in order to keep the suckers at the tables.


34 posted on 03/31/2014 1:32:12 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek
Retired on my investments and went all Cash when I retired. With, Two exceptions I never made a dime off of mutual funds, invested in sectors I knew something about and got out when things got stupid.

If I had made some small different choices I could have more money, but what would I have done with it?

35 posted on 03/31/2014 1:37:28 PM PDT by Little Bill (EVICT Queen Jean)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Thorne
In the case of the stock market, who exactly is "the house"?

It's not your brokerage firm, because they don't control stock prices. It's certainly not the companies who issue the stock, because their senior officers cash in their options when their stock performs well. It's not the institutional trading desks, because they are competing with each other to make a profit.

It must be the proverbial "they" or "them" that no one seems to know.

36 posted on 03/31/2014 1:40:21 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama LImbo: " How low-down can you go?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

watch the gold market. almost every day, just before open, then fed dumps gold contracts to try and keep the price of gold down.

they don’t care about losing ‘money’... since they’re literally printing it.


37 posted on 03/31/2014 1:47:11 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RoosterRedux

“they”, “them” and “I don’t know” have been doggin me from the time I was little.


38 posted on 03/31/2014 1:59:11 PM PDT by Lurkina.n.Learnin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

CBS News is rigged. I believe nothing CBS says.


39 posted on 03/31/2014 2:05:37 PM PDT by T Ruth (Islam shall be defeated.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

THE Berlin Stock Exchange still exists—as a building,
as an institution with large offices, with brokers and
bankers, with a huge organization for daily announcement
of stock and bond quotations. But it is only a
pale imitation of its former self and of what a stock
exchange is supposed to be. For the Stock Exchange
cannot function if and when the State regulates the flow
of capital and destroys the confidence of investors in
the sanctity of their property rights.


From the Vampire Economy 1939


40 posted on 03/31/2014 2:24:23 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lurkina.n.Learnin
They used to steal my sox.;-)

Now they hide my keys.

41 posted on 03/31/2014 2:26:19 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama LImbo: " How low-down can you go?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

it’s not just the unseen movers. Little ole me could not help but notice when trading through Schwab when I bought something through them the transaction would always take 3 or 4 days. The settled price was always the highest quote for that period. When selling the contrary was always true. Stick it Chuck.


42 posted on 03/31/2014 2:46:00 PM PDT by rsobin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

"Step right up ladies and gentlemen!!"

43 posted on 03/31/2014 2:49:43 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

You have it right.

Traders with massive capability have an advaantage in the short and very short term.

Those who buy and hold are not substantially effected by that advantage. If you set the buy or sell price, you get what you want or don’t. Then , you try again.


44 posted on 03/31/2014 2:53:28 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

no, not at all.

If you carefully search out and buy a mutual fund you will get a return much better than at the casino


45 posted on 03/31/2014 2:55:41 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: CodeToad

Indeed. Cramer even admitted in an interview that he used CNBC to help manipulate prices of stocks in which he had a position.


46 posted on 03/31/2014 3:01:57 PM PDT by NVDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: rsobin
You need to place a limit order at a specific price and not a market order. And the settlement time for a stock order is 3 days by rule (T+3 it is called)...but it will be at the price you specified or better if the order is executed. Contrary to what used to be the rule, a limit order is the same price (at Schwab) as a market order ($8.95 regardless of size, number of shares, or cost). My limit orders are day orders but I cancel them if they don't execute in the next few minutes at no cost. My brother, on the other hand, enters a limit order and often walks away until later just to see if the market comes to him.

I also watched the market depth activity (at Schwab) and set my order limit at a price which I like but which will get executed. If the market moves away, I make a decision to either raise the price by cancelling and re-entering the order or leave the order as is to see if the market comes back to me.

A limit order at a specified price will be executed at my price or better...or it will not be executed at all.

Once executed, the stock is mine, but the transaction settles over the next three days. In fact, if I want, I can resell the stock before the transactions settles.

47 posted on 03/31/2014 3:32:29 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama LImbo: " How low-down can you go?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: All
For all of you who want to make money in the stock market, here is the book written by Warren Buffett's professor at Columbia. Click the pic to go to Amazon. This is the classic for fundamental investors (that's me...and Warren). Studied this book in undergraduate and grad school. Love it. It is simple and basic...and beloved.


48 posted on 03/31/2014 4:15:18 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (My tagline was hacked by the NSA.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: RoosterRedux
Here are the reviews at Amazon of "Security Analysis"...click here.
49 posted on 03/31/2014 4:17:53 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (My tagline was hacked by the NSA.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine

In effect, they skim a bit, and I think the practical effect of this is to widen the bid-ask spread a bit.
**************************
The penny pricing has NARROWED the spread ,,, the NYSE hated to go to it because it put their people out of business (the market makers that have seats and their traders in the pits) and gave the profits to the huge HFT wirehouses... now there is basically no backstop to an out of control market is a bad trade is entered... say a price wrong by a few decimal points or a LARGE quantity that can’t be realistically filled..


50 posted on 03/31/2014 5:00:15 PM PDT by Neidermeyer (I used to be disgusted , now I try to be amused.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson