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California's Anti-GMO Hysteria
National Review Online ^ | March 31, 2014 | Henry Miller

Posted on 04/01/2014 4:02:25 PM PDT by neverdem

A new bill to mandate labeling of genetically altered food gets history and science all wrong.

Last week, in a victory for California’s radical anti-technology minority, S.B. 131 passed the state’s senate Health Committee by a vote of five to two. This misguided piece of legislation, introduced by state senator Noreen Evans, would require that “any food, except as provided, offered for retail sale in the state be considered misbranded if it is entirely or partially genetically engineered, as defined, and that fact is not disclosed in a specified manner.” In other words, it would require a label to inform consumers that the newest, most precise and predictable techniques of genetic modification had been employed in the food’s production.

The bill rests on the same mistaken assumptions that Senator Dianne Feinstein, the senior U.S. senator from California, expressed in a letter she wrote to President Obama in December, which read in part:

It is my strong opinion that consumers have the right to know whether their food originates from genetically modified organisms. Your administration should reevaluate the Food & Drug Administration’s outdated policy that genetically engineered food does not need to disclose this fact on required labels.

Both the Evans bill and Feinstein’s letter pander to a small but vocal group of anti-science alarmists, and the two lawmakers are wrong on every count.

The push to require labeling of genetically modified (GM) or genetically engineered (GE) food is one of those causes that sounds worthy — like “protect the Delta smelt” or “save the snail darter” — until you actually learn a little about them.

What, one might ask, could be wrong with letting consumers know what’s in their food and allowing them to decide what to buy? Actually, plenty.

The terms “genetically modified” and “genetically engineered” are themselves misleading; the choice of what to include in these pseudo-categories is wholly arbitrary. Foods made with the precise techniques of genetic engineering are every bit as safe and “natural” as thousands of other common foods. In fact, as federal regulators have said repeatedly, a mandatory label would erroneously imply a meaningful difference where none exists.

Contrary to what activists would have you believe, genetic modification of one sort or another has been with us for millennia and there is a seamless continuum from crude, older techniques to newer, more precise and predictable ones. One genetic-modification technique, “wide cross” hybridization, has been performed by plant breeders since the 1930s. With this method, breeders move large numbers of “alien” genes from one species or one genus to another in order to create plant varieties that cannot and do not exist in nature. Common commercial crops derived from wide crosses include tomato, potato, sweet potato, oat, rice, wheat, corn, and pumpkin. Another technique, in use since the 1950s, is induced-mutation breeding, which involves exposing seeds or cells to ionizing radiation or toxic chemicals to induce high numbers of random genetic mutations, and then entering the plants that mutate in desirable ways into conventional breeding and testing programs. Thousands of such mutation-bred crop varieties have been commercialized in North America and Europe and are part of our diet.

When plant breeders use these “conventional” technologies, they do not know the exact genetic changes that produced the desirable traits; and more important, they have no idea what other changes their genetic modifications have caused in the plant, including those that could raise toxin levels or alter the plant’s ability to cause allergic reactions. These older techniques, unlike genetic engineering, are subject to no government regulation at all. The greater precision and predictability of modern genetic engineering make it more versatile and safer than older techniques.

On a daily basis, Americans consume dozens of varieties of fruits, vegetables, and grains derived from wide crosses. (They include, by the way, even the “heirloom” varieties sold at farmers’ markets and “health food” stores.) As for foods made from plants derived from the modern molecular techniques of genetic engineering — the only kind that Evans and Feinstein want labeled — Americans have already consumed more than 3 trillion servings of them. The record shows no ill effects from this, not a single tummy ache.

The reason the FDA does not require labeling of foods with genetically engineered ingredients is that such information is not “material” — a legal term of art that means related to safety or appropriate usage — and would be misleading. Such a label, if mandatory, and not the lack of one, would arguably make the product “misbranded” and would violate federal law, which requires that labels be truthful and not misleading.

Federal courts have consistently struck down mandatory-labeling policies not supported by data. In the 1990s, a group of Wisconsin consumers sued the FDA, arguing that the agency’s decision not to require the labeling of dairy products from cows treated with a bioengineered protein called bovine somatotropin (bST) allowed those products to be labeled in a false and misleading manner. (In other words, the plaintiffs wanted the same sort of mandatory labeling that Feinstein and Evans are seeking.) However, because the plaintiffs failed to demonstrate any material difference between milk from treated and untreated cows, the federal court agreed with the FDA, finding that “it would be misbranding to label the product as different, even if consumers misperceived the product as different.”

In another federal case, in 1994, several food associations and companies challenged a Vermont statute that required labeling to identify milk from cows treated with bST. Because the state could not demonstrate that its labeling requirement was motivated by anything more than satisfying consumer curiosity, the court said it could not compel milk producers to include that information on product labels: “We are aware of no case in which consumer interest alone was sufficient to justify requiring a product’s manufacturers to publish the functional equivalent of a warning about a production method that has no discernible impact on a final product. . . . Absent some indication that this information bears on a reasonable concern for human health or safety or some other sufficiently substantial governmental concern, the manufacturers cannot be compelled to disclose it,” because it would violate constitutional guarantees of commercial free speech. “Were consumer interest alone sufficient,” said the court, “there is no end to the information that states could require manufacturers to disclose about their production methods.”

The bill that California’s Senate Health Committee just passed, SB 1831, follows the same line of argument that these earlier cases have already invalidated: “California consumers have the right to know, through labeling, whether the foods they purchase were produced with genetic engineering.” But the FDA, federal courts, and the U.S. Constitution say otherwise. Federal appeals courts’ citing of constitutional concerns is significant because the U.S. Constitution takes precedence over state and federal laws. Thus, if SB 1831 were passed and signed by the governor, the federal courts would probably void it on grounds of the constitutional right to free speech. To get us to that point, however, the state would have to spend years and millions of dollars defending the indefensible.

It is worth considering two other misconceptions in the text of SB 1381, which reads like a “how not to” example in a civics lesson.

“Genetic engineering of plants and animals can cause unintended consequences. It has been demonstrated that manipulating genes through genetic engineering and inserting them into organisms is an imprecise process.” This shows that Noreen Evans and her staffers know little about plant breeding. Her bill would require labeling only for food made with modern molecular techniques of genetic engineering; but, as I noted above, the modern techniques are in fact the most precise ones for improving seeds and plants. The older methods tinker with Nature” — as activists put it — in far more drastic ways, and scientists have much greater uncertainty about the results from these methods, but they are essentially unregulated by the government, and no labeling of them is required. This is the fundamental inconsistency in Evans’s bill.

“Polls consistently show that the vast majority of the members of the public, more than 90 percent, want to know, for health, economic, environmental, religious, and ethical reasons, if the food they purchase was produced with genetic engineering.”

Such surveys are notoriously dependent on how the questions are worded and in what order they are asked, and the questions are often deliberately crafted to yield a specific result. In a series of more reliable surveys commissioned by the non-profit International Food Information Council, respondents were first read a summary of the FDA rule on labeling and then asked their opinion. In every one of the 15 surveys, conducted between 1997 and 2012, a majority agreed with the FDA’s risk-based approach, which does not mandate labeling according to the techniques employed in producing the food.

Moreover, Evans should know that when voters had the chance, via referenda in California in 2012 and in Washington in 2013, to weigh in on the issue of labeling for GE food, they rejected the mandates. Actual votes cast by millions of voters certainly trump trumped-up polls.

A little passing knowledge of the state’s history might further chasten California’s pro-labeling activists. One of California’s most important genetic engineers, Luther Burbank (1849–1926), made it his life’s work to increase the world’s food supply by manipulating the characteristics of plants. During his illustrious career, Burbank developed and introduced “more than 800 new varieties of plants — including over 200 varieties of fruits, many vegetables, nuts and grains, and hundreds of ornamental flowers,” notes the Burbank Home and Gardens website. It just so happens that the gardens that showcase Burbank’s work are one of the most popular tourist attractions in Evans’s own senatorial district. A good many visitors clearly appreciate the geneticist’s work rather than decry it.

Adding to the absurdity of all this is my 2012 e-mail exchange with Senator Feinstein’s office. As a constituent, I wrote to express my opposition to labeling. Her response read, in part: “I recognize you have serious concerns about the health effects and environmental implications of genetically altered foods. I too believe that consumers have the right to know when the food that they eat contains these genetically-altered ingredients. . . . Please know that I appreciate learning of your support for labeling genetically engineered products and ingredients, and I will certainly keep the issues you have raised in mind.” I’ve heard of a pro forma response, but Feinstein and her staff interpreted my opinion as being exactly the opposite of what I had communicated to her.

Finally, there is plenty of information freely available that enables consumers to choose “non–genetically engineered” foods — as meaningless as that term is scientifically — if they prefer them.

Those who are opposed to modern techniques of genetic engineering have made it clear that they regard labeling as a first step toward eliminating the technology entirely. “We are going to force them to label this food,” said one anti-biotechnology activist. “If we have it labeled, then we can organize people not to buy it.” Another activist recently stated the goal forthrightly: “Personally, I believe GM foods must be banned entirely, but labeling is the most effective way to achieve this.”

Evans’s and Feinstein’s efforts, if successful, would move us toward just such a ban on genetically engineered foods. The irony is that legislation intended to help consumers would have exactly the opposite effect, killing much-needed innovation. Drought-resistant genetically engineered plants now in testing will be invaluable to California’s drought-plagued farmers, and modified orange trees will be needed to save the state’s citrus industry from an insect-spread bacterial disease called citrus greening.

How, then, can we explain the lawmakers’ missteps? Poor due diligence by staffers? Big campaign contributions from the organic-food lobby? Whatever the reason, Noreen Evans owes her constituents an apology and the withdrawal of S.B. 1381, and Feinstein should retract her letter to President Obama.

— Henry I. Miller, a physician and molecular biologist, is the Robert Wesson Fellow in Scientific Philosophy and Public Policy at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution. He was the founding director of the FDA’s Office of Biotechnology.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections; Technical; US: California
KEYWORDS: california; diannefeinstein; finos; genetics; noreenevans; paranoia; paranoidlosers; sb131; technophobia
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1 posted on 04/01/2014 4:02:25 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem
All food has already be genetically “engineered” since the beginning of civilization. Even our blood type changed when farming started.

Oh, yes stay away from “Organic grown stuff” and especially free range chicken and their eggs. Chickens running around catch all kinds diseases and ailments, and generate toxins and vermin in side, while chickens raised in secure environment, are kept away from viruses etc, and as a result are safer. Same with vegtables etc.

2 posted on 04/01/2014 4:12:24 PM PDT by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: stubernx98

There is a difference between gene inserted glyphosate and seed breeding, one contains an untested chemical, the other contains natural hybridization.
Go for it!


3 posted on 04/01/2014 4:34:06 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: neverdem

What Monsanto does in labs to produce it’s genetically modified seeds and what Luther Burbank did in creating hybrid crosses from many plant varieties are two entirely different things, and it’s totally dishonest to pretend they are the same.


4 posted on 04/01/2014 4:39:55 PM PDT by Will88
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To: neverdem; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Thanks neverdem.


5 posted on 04/01/2014 5:13:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Obama is now making Jimmy Carter look like Attila the Hun. /focus/news/3138768/posts)
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To: stubernx98

We need to be careful not to respond with “knee jerk” reactions just because we are conservatives. I am a Conservative to my very core, but also understand that the output of today’s “Factory Farming” is a horrific mix of filth, disease, and antibiotics to cost effectively counter the filth and disease. Animals are squeezed into tiny cages, they linger in their own feces, and are pumped full of antibiotics to fight the disease inherent in these conditions. You say no to “Organic” and “Free Range”...personally, I will gladly pay extra for that diseased filth we call Supermarket Meat NOT to go into my Grandchildren Stomachs, and NOT destroy their response to Antibiotics which may be needed to save their life someday. Do I agree with State or Federal MANDATES? NO! Do I hope consumers make better CHOICES? YES! Does that make me a bad Conservative?


6 posted on 04/01/2014 5:41:32 PM PDT by NYAmerican
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To: neverdem

Series of videos with some hyperbole and some facts. The monopolizing is a problem, and more original plants, though often yielding less, have survived many more adversities in time and proven themselves in that way.

GMO = Eugenics (!!)
https://www.youtube.com/user/MonsantoMovie/videos


7 posted on 04/01/2014 5:57:23 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: neverdem

A misleading and foolish article.


8 posted on 04/01/2014 6:17:00 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant
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To: acapesket
There is a difference between gene inserted glyphosate and seed breeding, one contains an untested chemical, the other contains natural hybridization.

1. A gene is not a chemical. The RU Ready gene does NOT insert glyphosate chemicals into the plant, it makes the plant resistant to the glyphosate based herbicides.

2. Basic category errors indicate your knowledge base is somewhat limited.

3. Glyphosate is not an untested chemical.

4. You seem to have missed the paragraphs regarding wide cross hybridization and mutagenesis, both of which are unregulated and can and have produced all sorts of previously unknown genetic changes into food crops.

5. Nature moves genes between species without our permission or knowledge all the time. Humans generally only notice it when such change has negative effects on us.

5. Doing it with modern lab technology means the changes are no longer unknown prior to being introduced.

6. Nature or natural processes are not benevolent or benign. The only force with a higher kill rate is government.

9 posted on 04/01/2014 6:27:39 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

Glyphosate gene in crop, sprayed with glyphosate Round up becomes immune to Roundup and spreads to other crops.
I will eat what I feel is not tainted.. you party on Val pal! Eat all of this stuff to your content and feed it to your family.

There has to be a reason that you wish to take the choice away from other Americans to know what they are eating.

This is one of the few times that I agree with the Europeans, Aussies and New Zealanders. Nature did NOT create glyphosate, Monsanto did.

So if you are truly an American who believes in free speech then you will not try to silence those who disagree with you. What’s the harm..two opinions going to hurt your industry?
I don’t know what your motivations are.
Mine are simply to eat food that God intended us to eat.

Live your life happily and with gusto, best wishes.


10 posted on 04/01/2014 6:39:50 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: acapesket

Apparently you are unaware that all conventionally grown crops whether they are GMO or not are grown with a variety of herbicides, pesticides and fertilizers. They are all chemicals.

Even organic crops have a list of approved chemicals.

Glyphosate is one of the least toxic (to humans) herbicide there is.

Forced labeling of a non-hazard is not free speech, but its antithesis.

But here’s the real problem regarding nature vs. science in farming. Nature adapts to whatever weed and pest control is used. Science allows man to adapt faster.

If you want to eat your version of what you think God intended us to eat, then I suggest you grow ALL your own food and leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to force labeling on us.

That’s freedom.


11 posted on 04/01/2014 7:24:28 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

Well actually, I do grow most of my own food.
Call me when you can prove glyphosate is non toxic to chemically sensitive people.

Science is now a a load of bullcrap that is altered according to Grant Money.

Global Warming…anyone?
Mercury in your teeth..anyone?
Flouride in your water..anyone?
Antibacterials in your soap …anyone?
Sodium Laureth sulfate in your shampoo…?
Ethylene Glycol in your Antifreeze ..anyone?
Apparently unaware…anyone?


12 posted on 04/01/2014 7:35:07 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: NYAmerican

It doesn’t make you a bad conservative, just a foolish one.

However, the good news is there are entire food sections, and even food chain stores, that have sprung up just to fleece, uh, serve you.


13 posted on 04/01/2014 7:39:47 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: Valpal1
They are all chemicals.

Everything is a chemical.

14 posted on 04/01/2014 7:40:55 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: acapesket
There has to be a reason that you wish to take the choice away from other Americans to know what they are eating.

Au contraire, it is the Luddites who are trying to impose their view of the world on the rest of society.

There are already entire chain stores whose sole target market are those who want to stay away from GMO foods.

Is that enough for the Luddites? Of course not. Like the homosexual lobby, they are so unsure of their beliefs that they must, through the rule of law, deny those of us who prefer lower cost foods any source. Just as the homosexual lobby does.

15 posted on 04/01/2014 7:46:14 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

So in your estimable opinion.. as an alleged “luddite” I wish to put all farmers out of business? Or would that just be CAFO farmers and not the smaller independent organic/self run Farmers.?
Luddites destroyed all manufacturing machinery because they could not let go of the past.
We simply want the good guys to have a chance at a future without Government interference and grow their own food as they see fit.

Good gracious! I guess “Luddites” cannot be Conservative .
Or perhaps purists cannot get out of their fundamentalism?

Color me convinced.


16 posted on 04/01/2014 7:56:21 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

OMG, we’re all gonna die from chemical exposure! Or worse, exposure to elements.


17 posted on 04/01/2014 8:01:39 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: acapesket

Steve Forbes has used the phrase ‘Food Luddites’ in some of his writings about the closed minded approaches of many ignorant people towards modern methods of food production. It’s a good description, which is why I’ve adopted it too.

He properly has noticed that the Food Luddites want to destroy all of the food producing machinery that has been put in place over the decades by farmers, scientists, and agricultural specialists.


18 posted on 04/01/2014 8:04:19 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: acapesket
We simply want the good guys to have a chance at a future without Government interference and grow their own food as they see fit.

The above statement conflicts with your desire for additional regulation through more labeling requirements.

If you indeed want less interference with farmers then you would let farmers decide whether they want to be CAFO or not. The fact is, the EPA definitions allow it to designate any livestock producer they want as a CAFO, irrespective of reality or reason.

19 posted on 04/01/2014 8:16:49 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

hey Val! I didn’t say “d*ck” about the EPA and yes indeedie do believe that people have a right to know what they are buying to put in their bodies. If you choose to be CAFO and you think it’s so wonderful then declare it proudly.
Why is it so hard to understand that people would like to know that they are eating non GMO.
If you are so opposed and so convinced that CAFO is better then why stop the organic Farmers from declaring that theirs are not?

How about just labeling non GMO and then we won’t buy CAFO?

HMMM


20 posted on 04/01/2014 9:30:10 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: acapesket

hey Val Pal.
How come UCLA Med Centers stopped serving antibiotic fed meat per the LA Times? They must be REALLY crazy!


21 posted on 04/01/2014 9:47:20 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: acapesket

I don’t think you understand what I said. The EPA has defined the terms and rules so they can declare any and all livestock operations a CAFO anytime they want to, irrespective of reality and reason.

(Do you even know what CAFO means?) Non CAFO doesn’t mean GMO free and GMO Free doesn’t mean non CAFO. Livestock can be neither or both.

I buy meat by the whole live animal. Beef from a local farmer, lamb I raise myself and pork from the local 4H auction. Not because I fear CAFO meats but because it tastes better and costs less.

There is already a non-GMO label. It’s called Certified Organic. There is also a secondary voluntary GMO Free label as well.

What I object to is the movement by the Food Luddites to force a “contains GMO” labeling system. That’s BS. The current voluntary system lets both the farmers and the consumers that want to partake in that specialty market do so without cost to the those who don’t.

Demanding a non-voluntary system is simply trying to socialize the costly culinary choices of the fearful few onto everyone else.


22 posted on 04/01/2014 10:05:52 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: acapesket

It’s sleight of hand by the medical community. The number one cause of antibiotic resistant microbes is the over-prescription of them by doctors.

I also suspect another huge contributor to the problem is anal sex with a revolving door of treatment and re-infection.

Antibiotic use by farmers is merely a convenient whipping boy.


23 posted on 04/01/2014 10:23:25 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: NYAmerican
25 pharmaceutical companies will phase out animal antibiotics
24 posted on 04/01/2014 11:25:53 PM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: acapesket

You may not have said anything about the EPA, but it is being used by your brethren nevertheless.

Just as the Luddites of old, who claim that they were ‘just trying to save the jobs’ by wrecking the industrial machinery, todays Food Luddites are ‘simply trying to protect consumers’.

Some attack the food production machinery with ‘labeling’, others attack from the angle of ‘saving the environment’, or maybe ‘animal rights’, and any other sabotage that works.

What they all have in common are the tools developed by the Left which they have become so skilled at using over the years. Regulatory agencies comb the countryside, forcing on producers and consumers the costs and burdensome labeling rules, land use requirements, livestock rules, and any number of food production destroying techniques.

Their (including quite a number of Freepers) goal is very simple; Destroy the greatest food producing machine the world has ever witnessed.

Since I may be gone for awhile, the answer to your next question, asked in faked absolute outrage, is ‘Yes’.


25 posted on 04/02/2014 5:20:44 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: neverdem

Which means the cost of meat is going up again. Because now instead of over the counter access, a vet prescription will be necessary.

The big outfits like Tyson’s will have a substandard vet that will do as he is told on staff, no problem for them.

The small producers, however, will see skyrocketing vet bills since they’ll have to call a vet every time a cow or ewe gets mastitis or a bummer calf or lamb gets pneumonia. Not to mention the lost time in arranging appointments instead of dropping by the co-op for the needed medicine.

effing Luddites claiming to be on the side of the little guy, but screwing us over at every turn, because they are STUPID TOOLS.


26 posted on 04/02/2014 7:47:07 AM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: acapesket
Agreed. Risk expert Nassim Nicholas Taleb (author of The Black Swan, and risk expert) makes the point here.
27 posted on 04/02/2014 7:58:20 AM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: slowhandluke
What the...?

When you want sound science you turn to a statistician, hedge fund manager, and derivatives trader for the truth? Really?

When you have a scary looking and fast growing mole on your skin, do you go to your car mechanic for advice?

The stupid, it burns.

28 posted on 04/02/2014 11:28:54 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: slowhandluke
Let’s say each GM seed that’s produced holds a 0.1% chance of — somehow, in the intricately interdependent web of nature — leading to a catastrophic breakdown of the ecosystem that we rely on for life. All by itself, it doesn’t seem too harmful, but with each new seed that’s developed, the risk gets greater and greater.

Seeds are mutating everyday in nature. That risk is unacceptable, we need to eliminate that risk.

Let's pave over the rain forest, to start, it's the only way to stay safe.


29 posted on 04/02/2014 12:52:49 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: stubernx98

Genetic engineering refers to pasting genetic code into one species from another It does NOT refer to crossbreeding or any of the various breeding methods used by nature and man over the millennium The artilce is misleadig at best.


30 posted on 04/02/2014 1:13:38 PM PDT by pacific_waters
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To: stubernx98

Genetic engineering refers to pasting genetic code into one species from another It does NOT refer to crossbreeding or any of the various breeding methods used by nature and man over the millennium The artilce is misleadig at best.


31 posted on 04/02/2014 1:13:48 PM PDT by pacific_waters
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To: stubernx98

Genetic engineering refers to pasting genetic code into one species from another It does NOT refer to crossbreeding or any of the various breeding methods used by nature and man over the millennium The artilce is misleadig at best.


32 posted on 04/02/2014 1:13:54 PM PDT by pacific_waters
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To: pacific_waters

but at this point what does it matter?


33 posted on 04/02/2014 2:47:15 PM PDT by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: neverdem

I saw that...that’s great news, as far as I’m concerned. And I don’t believe the companies are doing it because of the FDA, I believe they are making the changes because of the old fashioned, “consumer demand”...it’s what customers are asking for! We don’t need any Federal Agency for that.


34 posted on 04/02/2014 2:50:06 PM PDT by NYAmerican
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To: Balding_Eagle

I’ve done some reading/research into how the huge “Factory Farms” operate......but I’m no expert, I’ve never actually seen one or known someone who has worked in one. Do you have any personal knowledge of them? I’d be extremely happy to hear from someone who has personal knowledge of them and tells me they are not really filthy at all......please tell me!


35 posted on 04/02/2014 2:50:06 PM PDT by NYAmerican
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To: pacific_waters

Nature does transfer genetic code between species, it’s called horizontal or lateral gene transfer. It is quite common in the viral and bacterial world.

Interspecies hybrids also occur in nature in both the plant and animal world.


36 posted on 04/02/2014 3:24:50 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: NYAmerican

I had what was once call a ‘factory farm’, raised 15,000 market hogs per year, birth to market. What would you like to know?

BTW one of the feed mixes contained Snickers Bars, others Gummy Worms and Bears.


37 posted on 04/02/2014 6:15:44 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: Valpal1

Like zoonosis?


38 posted on 04/02/2014 7:21:59 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: acapesket

Uh, no. Zoonosis is the transfer of an animal disease to humans, like rabies, bubonic plague, Lyme’s disease, various parasitic worms, salmonella being some of the better known ones.

Has nothing to do with genetic transfer.


39 posted on 04/02/2014 7:59:03 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

I know what zoonosis is, that is why I mentioned it. Various parasitic worms lets say from GMO to humans, pests like ticks becoming immune to glyphosate say, rabies and bubonic plaque passed to humans from rats that have eaten glyphosate crops say and then been exposed to glyphosate pesticide say..
Nah…nothing to do with genetic transfer…Nah


40 posted on 04/02/2014 8:27:07 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: acapesket

Your scenario is scientifically incoherent. Glyphosate is an herbicide, not a pesticide. So all those things you are worried about won’t happen since they are already unaffected by glyphosate.


41 posted on 04/02/2014 8:36:32 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

Human pythiosis has already occurred in Thailand, Ebola is all over West Africa..those are disease generated by nature.
Your willingness to dick around with nature and have faith in those “Scientists” (find me an honest one..please) who play around with genes, bT and glyphosate in the foods that human beings ingest do’t know “Jack”about how those “advances will replicate inside the human body. 90 day studies..really?
Do you work for the Government or are you Michael Taylor?!!

LOL


42 posted on 04/02/2014 8:51:41 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: acapesket
pests like ticks becoming immune to glyphosate

Wow! Do you have a link showing ticks were ever killed by glyphosate?

bubonic plaque passed to humans from rats that have eaten glyphosate crops say and then been exposed to glyphosate pesticide say..

Pesticide? That explains why your ignorance is so widespread.

Nah…nothing to do with genetic transfer…Nah

You're funny.

43 posted on 04/02/2014 9:59:12 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Thank you! I am very funny on occasion.

Herbicide, pesticide, homicide, suicide.. fratracide


44 posted on 04/03/2014 8:45:08 AM PDT by acapesket
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To: acapesket
Animal, vegetable, what's the difference? LOL!

Your confusion is very funny.

45 posted on 04/03/2014 9:06:04 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

Thanks for replying. I’d like to know if there’s any truth in what I’ve read about the largest operators keeping their animals in filth, cages stacked, feces not cleaned out, animals diseased from living in those conditions, and fed antibiotics to counteract those conditions. In your experience, is there any truth to those claims? Thanks again.


46 posted on 04/03/2014 5:58:28 PM PDT by NYAmerican
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To: acapesket; Valpal1

Your debate would have been even better with some hard data/references. To a point, I agree with both of you.


47 posted on 04/03/2014 7:12:46 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Gene Eric

I know but I am a posting tard!

Plenty of ammo but I am of the age that grew up in the 70’s and missed the computer age by 2 years.
No. I do not care to learn at this point.

Glyphosate is an herbicide whose genes are selected to be inserted into crops such as cotton/soy/sweet corn.

Farmer must sign an agreement to use Round up ready herbicide with their round up gene inserted crops..it is a perpetual cycle.

Monsanto developed these technologies and because they are so in bed with the feds, they gained a monopoly on seed and the herbicide of their own.. Round up Ready that you must treat the growing crops with wait for it.. Round up Ready!
The Farmer cannot save seed from season to season and is under contract to continue the circle jerk.
Ever wonder why your cotton sheets fall apart after a year?
That 20.00$ shirt you bought at Target has holes in it after three washes?

That is just cotton.

95% of Soy in the US is GMO…aka glyphosate resistant seed that you are contractually obligated to use round up ready herbicide on when it starts to “bolt” in the field? It becomes “resistant”..the soy Where does the “bolt” go next year? Perhaps to the next field?
Can we prove it does not? No we cannot.

GMO trials were done for 90 days max, they have now been in our food since the early 90’s.
Do you see many healthy people in this country?
I do not.
Coinkydink? I think not.
Make your own food choices.
I do.


48 posted on 04/03/2014 7:58:23 PM PDT by acapesket
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To: Gene Eric

May I recommend http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/ if you are interested in actual science rather than luddite hysteria.


49 posted on 04/03/2014 8:24:21 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: acapesket
The Farmer cannot save seed from season to season and is under contract to continue the circle jerk.

Farmers haven't saved corn for seed for nearly 60 years, and for good reason.

50 posted on 04/03/2014 9:03:29 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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