Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

327 denied concealed carry licenses because of poor training
Chicago Tribune ^ | 2 apr 2014 | Robert McCoppin

Posted on 04/02/2014 4:44:43 AM PDT by rellimpank

John Ambrose hoped to be among the first people in Illinois licensed to carry a concealed gun when the state’s new law took effect this year.

Instead, Ambrose, 38, of Joliet said he learned Monday that his application had been denied because he took a class in Bolingbrook that didn’t meet state requirements from an instructor who’s had his right to teach revoked. Ambrose said although some students had voiced concerns about the part of the class to be taught online, the teacher told them the training met state standards.

“I kind of feel like a fool,” he said.

Illinois State Police announced Tuesday that the agency denied concealed carry licenses to 327 applicants who received inadequate training from a firearms instructor in Bolingbrook. Though state police spokeswoman Monique Bond declined to give the instructor’s name, she said the class didn’t meet state criteria because it didn’t involve 16 hours of in-person training, instead including an online component.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: banglist; rkba

1 posted on 04/02/2014 4:44:43 AM PDT by rellimpank
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

Bet if they shot dogs that would be considered “good training”


2 posted on 04/02/2014 4:52:54 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Joe Brower

FYI


3 posted on 04/02/2014 4:53:44 AM PDT by SLB (23rd Artillery Group, Republic of South Vietnam, Aug 1970 - Aug 1971.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

This sounds like it might be a case of an “instructor” defrauding his students.


4 posted on 04/02/2014 4:55:31 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

Good morning FReepers. Start the day off right.
Become a new monthly donor and end FReepathons.



Click the Pic


Support Free Republic

5 posted on 04/02/2014 4:56:14 AM PDT by deoetdoctrinae (Gun-free zones are playgrounds for felons.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WayneS

It pretty much is.


6 posted on 04/02/2014 4:57:00 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: WayneS
-- This sounds like it might be a case of an "instructor" defrauding his students. --

It might be, or it might be that the instructor was told, by the state, that online time was suitable going toward the "in person" requirement, provided the students are able to interact with the instructor. It wouldn't be the first time some petty bureaucrat changed the rules after the fact.

7 posted on 04/02/2014 4:59:38 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

In PA we don’t need classes to get a CCW permit. Maybe its a good thing or maybe its a bad thing.
But show me where in the Bill of rights is says you have the right to bear arms only if you attended a Government class.


8 posted on 04/02/2014 4:59:38 AM PDT by Yorlik803 ( Church/Caboose in 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

I got mine with four hours classroom and the rest shooting. Seemed pretty lame.


9 posted on 04/02/2014 5:02:16 AM PDT by DainBramage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Yorlik803
"But show me where in the Bill of rights is says you have the right to bear arms only if you attended a Government class."

I'll go you one better, show me in the Constitution/Bill of Rights where I need any form of a permit to carry a weapon...

My theory is that C&C permits are a way for the States and the FedGov to know who to round up when they deem it necessary to "maintain the peace" in a time of "crisis"...

I am glad that I am an avowed pacifist and never purchased any guns...

It is much easier than having one of those "FReeper Boating Accidents"...

10 posted on 04/02/2014 5:08:09 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: DainBramage

“I got mine with four hours classroom and the rest shooting. Seemed pretty lame.”

Form 522 Record of Small Arms Training for the M16A2 is what I was allowed to use when I put in for mine. Feel the same way.


11 posted on 04/02/2014 5:09:06 AM PDT by Antihero101607
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: WayneS
-- This sounds like it might be a case of an "instructor" defrauding his students. --

It might be, or it might be that the instructor was told, by the state, that online time was suitable going toward the "in person" requirement, provided the students are able to interact with the instructor. It wouldn't be the first time some petty bureaucrat changed the rules after the fact.

Requirements Prior to Applying for a Concealed Carry License

ILLINOIS RESIDENTS

* 16 hours of Concealed Carry firearms training provided by an ISP approved Instructor.

http://illinoisccw.org/il-ccw-info/

Granted, that isn't from a state authority, but I see no reference or "in person" condition attached to that 16 hour requirement. This is the 13th instructor to be decertified by the state, according to recent news reports.

* Successfully complete 16 hours of firearms training, including classroom and range instruction.
https://ccl4illinois.com/ccw/Public/Faq.aspx

The instructor WAS ISP approved at the time he gave the classes in question.

12 posted on 04/02/2014 5:10:14 AM PDT by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank
In Illinois we have to have the State's approval and carry a card to exercise a Constitutional right. Illinois is a Hellhole. But then Illinois unleashed Obama on the nation to remake it as Illinois writ large.

I liked America more when it was a free country.

13 posted on 04/02/2014 5:12:29 AM PDT by Lawgvr1955 ( Sic Semper Tyrannis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawgg

Good point....
And youre right. Its just a way to keep tabs for rounds up.


14 posted on 04/02/2014 5:15:13 AM PDT by Yorlik803 ( Church/Caboose in 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt

Interesting.

I could tell that the article left out a lot of potentially pertinent information. That is why I stated that it MIGHT be a case of fraud.


15 posted on 04/02/2014 5:16:54 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Yorlik803

The phrase “well-regulated militia” (which when it was written meant well trained and drilled) COULD potentially be interpreted by some to mean members of the militia would be required to undergo firearms training.

Other than that, nothing.


16 posted on 04/02/2014 5:20:47 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

As a resident of Arizona, I do not need a CCW to carry a firearm, concealed or open. However I do have an Arizona CCW license. The biggest reason is, that CCW will be honored in most of the other states, Constitutional Carry will not. Plus it saves a lot of time when purchasing a firearm.


17 posted on 04/02/2014 5:20:53 AM PDT by Tupelo (I feel more like Philip Nolan every day)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt

PS - If the instructor was approved at the time of the applicants took the class, then clearly he did not defraud them, and I think the applicants have strong grounds for an appeal.


18 posted on 04/02/2014 5:22:14 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

Let me know if I have this right. I wouldn’t want to do anything wrong and get in trouble.
If you are an American Citizen of (whatever)state, you must be careful to observe every last detail of the onerous regulations regarding your “CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT” to bear arms. Do less and you have NO “right”.
If you are an ILLEGAL ALIEN, unable to speak or read the “language of the land”, having NO interest in persuing citizenship or becoming an American, you have every “human right” to waltz into the polling place and cast a vote fraudulently, without fear of punishment.
Is that how it goes?


19 posted on 04/02/2014 5:24:00 AM PDT by CaptainAmiigaf (NY TIMES: We print the news as it fits our views.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

Hmmmmm...

Chicago suburbs and grifters under a Democratic regime.

Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

ADD Default
Oh! Bill Clinton’s coming to town!


20 posted on 04/02/2014 5:26:26 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The Acronym explains the science.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DainBramage
During mine, we were shown an NRA video from the 80s. Gerald McRaney was in it and he looked like he came straight off the set of Simon and Simon. Tough not to laugh out loud.

The instructor was a retired police officer. I felt like he gave us some pretty good tips on options in the event your firearm may be necessary. He also offered some advice on things you should/shouldn't say/do post shooting and what to say/do if you're approached by law enforcement (traffic stop, for example) when you are carrying.

Once we had the proper paperwork to submit, you still have additional state imposed fees and waiting periods. Just another regulatory money-grab that treads on the Founder's original intent.

21 posted on 04/02/2014 5:33:17 AM PDT by edpc (Wilby 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank; NFHale

16 hours of personal training?


22 posted on 04/02/2014 5:37:01 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : 'You can keep your doctor if you want. I never tell a lie ')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawgg

Exactly. I am always dumbfounded how people have been giving away that right for over a century now in places like NYC, Chicago, Dodge City and Tombstone (in the 1800’s) and it spread from there to this misconception we have today.


23 posted on 04/02/2014 5:39:58 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

This guy may have to conceal carry like many other Chicago folks on the south east side.

You carry a gun and you conceal it from the gubmint. You do not mess with all that paperwork nonsense. If you decide to shoot someone, you shoot and ditch. Then buy another on the street.


24 posted on 04/02/2014 5:40:03 AM PDT by dforest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

I wuz trained in my diapers with a German lugar
by a WW2 US NAVY PBY Cat vet, my uncle.


25 posted on 04/02/2014 5:44:27 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WayneS
The phrase “well-regulated militia” (which when it was written meant well trained and drilled) COULD potentially be interpreted by some to mean members of the militia would be required to undergo firearms training.

Nope. Grammatically, the militia clause is explanatory and does not modify the subject (the right of the people to keep and bear arms) or the predicate (shall not be infringed). If taken literally, which the entire Constitution should be, requiring firearms training is an infringement and unconstiutional.

26 posted on 04/02/2014 5:51:57 AM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank
My training consisted of careful, line by line review of the law on carry and defensive gun use.
Then lots of shoot, no-shoot scenarios.
Only a short amount of range time where the instructor wanted to see safe gun handling and getting most of the rounds on target.

I liked it.

27 posted on 04/02/2014 7:09:13 AM PDT by Politically Correct (A member of the rabble in good standing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs

Some states require training and certification before issuing a CCW.

Typical class length for Basic Pistol is 8–10 hours and includes classroom instruction and range time (4 or 5 hours classroom lecture on safety, handling, parts, functionality), and then 4 or 5 hours live fire, a test, and you’re good to go.

As I see it, mandating it is one more way of “them” making you do jump through a hoop.

PA doesn’t require it.

BUT - Training isn’t a bad thing. Many people who have had ZERO experience with firearms get a whole new perspective, and a lot of confidence from it.

As an instructor myself, I’ve seen many people who were previously nervous become very proficient and knowledgeable - and confident.


28 posted on 04/02/2014 7:11:05 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Pollster1

I guess you missed the “COULD be interpreted by some” part?


29 posted on 04/02/2014 10:02:50 AM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: rellimpank

We don’t require no steenking training in GA :-)


30 posted on 04/02/2014 2:54:56 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson