Skip to comments.A Revolution in Money
Posted on 04/02/2014 9:14:27 AM PDT by Star Traveler
Imagine its 2040.
You go to the grocery store, and when you look for the checkout counter there is none. Theres no place to pay for your groceries because you already did.
When you walked into the store, a sensor identified you, perhaps from a ring or watch you were wearing that transmitted the information. Or perhaps you didnt need to wear anything special. Maybe a device in the store figured out who you were using a combination of facial recognition, 3-D body shape identification and your gait.
Your unique identifier is attached to your digital wallet, which transmits payment for the groceries directly to the store. But you dont pay in dollars. Your wallet has a dozen digital currencies in it, all with different values based on a variety of factors, including loyalty programs. At certain stores, you might pay with their version of frequent-flier miles. At others, you might pay with the equivalent of a virtual credit card except the credit card isnt issued by a traditional bank.
You might also pay with credit that you received through a peer-to-peer online exchange that connects investors with people seeking short- and long-term loans. Thats how you got your mortgage and financed your self-driving car, too.
(Excerpt) Read more at dealbook.nytimes.com ...
Bitcoin related news ...
I just made another purchase at Overstock - a new Bible. Using BTC as a medium of exchange sure works great! :-)
Meanwhile, my chocolate ice cream has turned to chocolate milk.
Everything is free. The government will provide.
The best things that smartphones and tablets provide is that we will have something to do while we stand in line all day waiting for our ration of Soylent Green.
That’s great! ... :-) ...
Hey! I ran into that same customer ... :-) ...
After she writes the check, she diligently logs the information in her check register, complete with subtraction, while the cashier discusses how much she likes the organic carrots she purchased.
Visa had this in a commercial years ago. The technological part can be done now, but there’s a lot of practical issues. What if you have multiple chipped cards, how do coupons work, how do we detect groups of people all carrying stuff but only one is going to pay, do we really want to RFID every single item in stores, produce.
Bitcoins won’t be any harder to turn you off than anything else. You still need to have some sort of device they can scan, and on some level it will have to be associated with you, so if they decide you’re no good off you go.
Once the federal government reaches its final configuration the only weak links left in the system will be the carbon based life forms.
Actually: The Holy Bible: New King James Version, The Scofield Study Bible III, Zipper Duradera Black (Hardcover)
Free shipping too, after adding a hunting knife I've had my eye on for a few days. ;)
Yeah - it’s 2040.
You walk into a store in search of a replacement for your cardboard belt- the one that fell apart after only two months, so that you’re holding up your pants with an old shoelace.
You’d like replacements for your cardboard shoes, but there are none available.
You don’t bother going to the grocery store, since there aren’t any - like everyone else, twice each month you just wait in line for your ration of moldy bread at the Government Allotment Center.
Welcome citizen: This is the future of Obama’s socialism in America.
Well ... I’m waiting for “3D Manufacturing” in the home so that all that “made in China” stuff will then be “made in America” ... :-) ...
Not to rain on your parade, but the once-monthly ration line will stretch around the block several times for the plastic, metal, wood, and any other materials with which to feed your 3D manufacturing machine - assuming you’re able to get one.
One suspects the government will have collected them all and found a way to tax any ownership and/or use.
That is starting to happen now. What a great time to be alive!
Well ... what do I know ... just that Motley Fool is raving over it ... :-) ...
And it’s not just them ... the technology is already being used now. With it coming down in price, it will end up being the equivalent of the Industrial Revolution.
In “official locations” that check into an official database, that could possibly be true, but it won’t stop people themselves from buying stuff, which would then be completely “off the books”. If necessary a “black market” will grow up around it. And no government has EVER been able to stop black markets. They try, but they never succeed.
Once “cash” is taken off the market ... this will take its place! It will be your safety valve.
A lot of this futurism can be easily dispelled.
Go to a grocery store with self check-out. Maybe eight terminals with one checker. Note how that checker is constantly on the go. While it is more efficient than an individual checker for each terminal, it still requires a lot of work. That individual probably expends more effort than three line checkers.
And the zinger is that that checker *has* to do these things, because they cannot be done automatically.
Nope, I’m sorry, but this “futurism” is not dispelled the way I look at it. You see, I talked to my grandfather who was born before the turn of the last century. So I know what “futurism” brings.
If your transaction is electronic it’s traceable, if it’s traceable it’s traceable to you, if it’s traceable to you it can be shutdown because it’s you.
Did you really get the Scofield notes? My dad had them in his Bible, but I’ve never gotten them. I’m thinking about it, though.
If I’ve been “turned off” electronically (which I think the government would do to some people) ... they’ll have to find me first ... LOL ...
So I just stand in a regular line and read a Kindle book on my phone while I wait. Everything is done for me, all I have to do is swipe my card.
Yup, and the gov will track your every move just like it tracks your every phone call.
Surveiller’s wet dream.
You make it sound like people should just “roll over and die” right now. Sorry, but I don’t quite think that way.
No they won’t, no more than they have to now. of course more importantly if you’ve got a bitcoin card that they’ve associated with you and you meet some guy in an alley and pay him with that bitcoin that they know to be monitoring and you guys hit the internet via your smartphone to transfer money you just told them where you are. Better than turning you off, you’ve now got a tracer.
I was thinking more along the lines of not some kind of “card” that you would run through a terminal to spend (which you could do and draw on some Bitcoin account) — but rather keeping all that information offline, and in a small storage device that that you have with you.
Just think of it in the same manner as dealing with cash with someone else (except “cash” no longer exists at that time). Now, it’s possible with “cash” to track down people, but it’s difficult and it’s possible to “stay a step ahead”.
And if push comes to shove people are going to do it.
Nobody you’re dealing with on the blackmarket is going to want to wait for the transaction. In some way shape or form you’ll have to access your online coin wallet during the transaction, and if you’ve done any “legit” stuff with that wallet the government could know to be monitoring it.
Of course that’s just the government side. Remember if you’re doing black market stuff then you’re dealing with criminals, one rule of back alley buying is never bring more money than you’re already going to give the guy, because if they see it they’re probably going to want it, and they are after all criminals. Now what happens if the guy knows you have bitcoin info on you, online or off, there’s probably more money on the other side of that than you’re going to give him, it’s like telling him to follow you to the ATM.
If cash ceases to exist the black market will become barter, or will invent their own cash that’s still physical. They won’t be using anything that’s basically a debit card because they will (wisely) not trust each other.
That remains to be seen. The way it goes in the black market is that it adapts to the society that it’s in. And if it’s in a highly technological society, then it will operate in the same venue.
How that is “worked out” in detail is never seen “beforehand” - but it does get done in the end.
It generally gets worked out with cash. Because the black market lacks the single most important thing for electronic transactions: trust.
As I said, there will come a time when cash no longer exists. As I see it - that’s inevitable. If someone disagrees and says that will never happen with “cash” - then that’s another matter and for another discussion.
The way I see people adapting — is as they have always adapted before and doing so in the context of their present society - according to the technological capabilities and the time period (which is yet in the future).
You give a picture of going backwards technologically speaking (in dealing with these things), while I’m saying that this kind if stuff will “move ahead” technologically speaking.
I had just order the Bible when you pinged me. I’ll let you know as soon as it gets here on the notes. It’s amazing how fast those bitcoins leave your wallet and end up at overstock. Less than a second from the time you hit send. lol! I do have my miner fee for transactions set to .01% though. Maybe I’ll make some of that back! ;)
So you do what they did back in the USSR. Live “na levo,” meaning “under the table.” You want to make sure you can always jump that line at the doctor’s office? Maybe he’ll see you in a “special” after hours appointment? Easy; you build a deck on his house. To get the lumber, you give the guy at the state lumberyard a few bottles of vodka, he looks the other way while the lumber disappears.
Fill the garage with plywood, drywall, cases of scotch and cigarettes. Keep handy the phone numbers of a few hookers that owe you favors.
Make sure the cop down the street gets his piece of the action.
That’s what socialism does to a society. And if you want to get by, you’ll get good at it.
People have been predicting a cashless society for a very long time. So far it hasn’t come close. Between our fondness for black markets and our fondness for convenience and our paranoia about somebody getting our precious numbers there will always be a demand for cash.
I’m not talking about going backwards at all. The black market is mostly cash driven now and will stay that way for the foreseeable future. The only way it’s changing is if something comes up that has all the same safeguards as cash: 100% untraceable in any direction, able to completely control the amount you carry, and able to prove the transaction happened with no trust. Some SF movies movies have credit chits that you can move money in and out of or simply handover the chit, something like that could replace cash (assuming the transferring from one to another didn’t involve any for of communicating with any other computer, communication is traceable), short of that the black market will stay on cash. And for many of the same reasons even the legit portion of the populace will continue to use cash in high enough demand for governments to keep making it.
I understand how people have been predicting it - and that’s actually because there are some good reasons for doing so, and it’s been gradually moving that way. That movement is continuing - and someone saying that we’re not at that finish line yet — doesn’t mean that we’re not getting there. We’re definitely not running back to the “start line” on this one ... :-) ...
SO ... what you’re talking about is for “now” (and I can see that for now) - but we won’t be remaining in this “now” forever. We will be getting to that future, no matter if people like it or not.
When I said there are good reason for going cashless, I can see it. However, at the same time, it leads - potentially - to a greater degree of control over people. And I do believe that’s the way it’s going to go.
It’s on Drudge! New York Times, The speed of Bitcoin’s adoption is following and exceeding the combined rate of Facebook and Google. It is everywhere.
This is the most amazing thing I have ever witnessed, the velocity is a unbelievable.
Well ... I hate to tell you, but that’s where I got it ... from Drudge ... :-) ...
I see Bitcoin as one might look at a stock...it’s temporary.
Decentralization will make tracing anyone impossible. Your transactions will be distributed as well as merchants receiving payments. These platforms are all being funded and realized as we type. I don’t buy into the gloom and doom what so ever.
The Controllers will be kicking and screaming and threatening but there is not a damn thing they can do about it now but huff and puff.
Don’t hate to tell, tell me more! I don’t read newspapers anymore but someone told me at work today that Bitcoin was mentioned in a comic strip.
Baseball, apple pie and Bitcoin.I left out Chevy for obvious reasons.
Bitcoin is ubiquitous and it is a wonderful thing to behold.
I pick up quite a few articles that I post here from Drudge ... and about other subjects, too. It’s a good place to start with the news.
The time between now and the 2040 of this article is much shorter than between now and the first time I heard we were going to become a cashless society. There are really only “good” reasons for going cashless if you’re the government, cash is expensive to produce, can be counterfeited, and is largely untraceable. For everybody that isn’t the government though it has a few big wins: fast, easy, and largely untraceable. Or on the consumerist side the reasons we use cash are: illegal things, small things, vending machines, bars, and yard sales. Nothing works better for those types of transactions than cash, and most of us participate in at least two of them on a fairly regular basis.
Now it’s possible the government will decide to stop giving in to our demands. But as long as they decide to be at least a little user friendly cash is staying until somebody comes up with something at least as fast, at least as easy AND at least as untraceable. Those chits I mentioned earlier would be about the only thing I can see doing it, but much like the RFID credit card in the RFID grocery store Visa commercial the logistical challenges for something like those chits are epic. You’d need them to be able to talk to all the banks, through all the ATMs, and all the computers, and all the smartphones, and all the cash registers, and they need to talk to all of each other (without having to talk to banks), and people will want to be able to add some security, but they’re also going to want to be able to ignore the security. All of it is technically solvable, even just with the tech we have now, but the solutions aren’t practical and simple enough for it to happen now.
So I stay quite confident in my idea that as long as the government remains a little user friendly there will be cash when you and I die. And even if the government stops private citizens will find a way to keep cash alive at least in the black market. It solves too many problems too much better than the alternatives.
Next monetary revolution..... 666
Bitcoins aren’t that ubiquitous. Half the people I work with (in the software business) have never even heard of them. There’s a subsection where anti-government control types intersect with nerdy internet types that know about them, outside of that group though nobody cares.
I just about use no cash right now. Almost everything is done by pushing around electrons. Of course, if I wanted to get cash and do it all that way, I could still do it, but that would be a lot more trouble for me. I would imagine there is a great number who are like me.
What’s going to happen is that there is going to be a “tipping point” and things will shift real fast at that tipping point. One can’t predict those kinds of things, as they just come out of the blue, but that’s how some things change and change really fast. I believe the change will come about as a “tipping point” issue and then it will happen virtually overnight.
But, all the talk about how long such a thing could be or will be before it happens reminds me of the child always asking, “Are we there yet?!”
It gets old after a while, because you know that we’re getting closer and closer to the destination - all while the question keeps coming up again and again.
AND THEN ... all of a sudden ... we reach the destination.
That’s a definite “tipping point” to make things happen virtually overnight.
Well, there are definitely some non-Geeks and non-nerds in my family ... and yet they know about Bitcoin.