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DOD Is Stuck with a Flawed $1.5 Trillion Fighter Jet
The Fiscal Times ^ | 2/18/2014 | David Francis

Posted on 04/02/2014 9:21:58 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants

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To: gdani

Uh the Pentagon is the only part of the government that can not only account for it’s money, but is the only part that IS audited, criticized, reformed, and cut.


51 posted on 04/02/2014 10:35:33 AM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason)
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To: tanknetter; US Navy Vet
RE :”irc Pentagon Wars was about the Bradley. The A-12 book was “$3 Billion Misunderstanding”

You must be thinking of the HBO comedy version of it(1990s) , but the book did a whole chapter on the A12, as well as the Bradley.

52 posted on 04/02/2014 10:36:17 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : 'You can keep your doctor if you want. I never tell a lie ')
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To: Kozak
Even if the jigs and tooling are gone, the plans and CAD files remain. Reconstructing the assembly line is a small cost in the big scheme of things. We could even build the new ones with the upgrades mentioned earlier already in place.

One oft-neglected thing in the F-22 vs. F-35 debate is supercruise. The F-22 is the only current fighter able to exceed the speed of sound without afterburner. It cruises at Mach 1.5 or so.

Here's a nice F-22 pic:


53 posted on 04/02/2014 10:45:40 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty
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To: US Navy Vet

Ummm, the A12 was a McDonnell Douglas project


54 posted on 04/02/2014 10:47:23 AM PDT by Cyclone59 (Where are we going, and what's with the handbasket?)
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To: Izzy Dunne
And US Government cleared the way for Chinese parts for the aircraft.

http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/industry/194472-us-waived-laws-for-chinese-made-f-35-parts

55 posted on 04/02/2014 10:50:02 AM PDT by maddog55 (I'd be Pro-Choice if we could abort liberals.)
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To: PreciousLiberty
Stories about doom and gloom surround lots of new combat aircraft, and have since the early days of aviation. It is possible the F-35 will be a great plane.

Time will tell if I am correct in my armchair evaluation. I still believe the F-22 is an aircraft we need in large numbers. A plane kicked to the side for one does everything but excels at nothing.

Air Supremacy requires a dedicated fighter, not a multi-role fighter/bomber STOVL carrier plane.

56 posted on 04/02/2014 10:55:26 AM PDT by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: SpeakerToAnimals

So the DoD better be cranking out YF-23s or we are screwed with the modern version of the Brewster Buffalo - top worst fighter design.


57 posted on 04/02/2014 10:56:40 AM PDT by mcshot (..."And this too shall end.")
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To: Red Badger

Cost overruns.


58 posted on 04/02/2014 10:59:11 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Obama is now making Jimmy Carter look like Attila the Hun. /focus/news/3138768/posts)
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To: pfflier

Exactly.


59 posted on 04/02/2014 10:59:28 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Obama is now making Jimmy Carter look like Attila the Hun. /focus/news/3138768/posts)
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To: Cyclone59

Yep, in addition to being a project by Mickey D and GD (A-12 Avenger), “A-12” was also a Curtiss airplane, the Curtiss A-12 Shrike, as well as Lockheed’s A-12 Oxcart.


60 posted on 04/02/2014 10:59:40 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: US Navy Vet
The F-35(like the “A-12”) IS A First Class PIECE OF LOCKHEED MARTIN SHIT!


LMCO may have developmental issues with the F-35, most of which stem from their prototype developmental philosophy, but the aircraft is absolutely outstanding for the application for which it was intended.

The goal of the JSF was to volume produce a supersonic F-117 Stealth Fighter replacement that had several orders of magnitude better stealth properties than the F-117 while providing F-16 or better levels of fighter performance and maneuverability for daytime operation against next generation fighters and air defense systems.

As such it would fill a missing slot in the US Airforce caused by the retirement of the F-117, and would also replace the strike fighter version of the F-18 for the Navy and the AV-8 Harrier for the Marines with an attack aircraft with infinitely better stealth than the F-117 Stealth fighter but still have fighter capabilities at least on par with the F-16

Problem is, JSF was never intended to be a dedicated air superiority fighter, that job went to the ATF’s F-22 raptor. The JSF was always designed to be a strike fighter attack aircraft first and foremost, but one with outstanding air combat capabilities in it's own right.

LMCO came close enough to this goal that the F-35 could theoretically be pitched as an actual dedicated air superiority platform.

Our beloved Obama Administration and Democrat Congressional political leadership disingenuously cancelled the F-22 and the entire ATF program when they a=had 100% control of the government with the lie that they would replace the F-22 with the F-35, a task which the F-35 is incapable of doing

Now they want to kill the F-35.

61 posted on 04/02/2014 11:10:09 AM PDT by rdcbn
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Despite people hyping technology as the biggest baddest most advanced thing, technology seldom lives us to its billing —


62 posted on 04/02/2014 11:13:03 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: 2CAVTrooper

The Pentagon can account for its money? HA!! You’re a funny guy. The DoD can’t account for TRILLIONS of dollars.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/want-cut-government-waste-8-5-trillion-pentagon-142321339.html


63 posted on 04/02/2014 11:14:46 AM PDT by bigdaddy45
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To: Blood of Tyrants
DOD Is Stuck with a Flawed $1.5 Trillion Fighter Jet

Anyone remember the F-111 Aardvark, the be all, do everything plane of the 70s for all the services? I believe it was referred to as the "Flying Edsel". In the end none wanted it, and the Air Force was the only one to buy it - forced by congress to do so.

Now in the 21st Century, the F-35 is playing this role. The F-35 is supposed to fill all the needs of all the services.

64 posted on 04/02/2014 11:15:46 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Who but a TYRANT shoves down another man's throat what he has exempted himself from?)
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To: sten
well, thank goodness we have the F-22 ...

oh wait...

thx 0bama

You can thank Dubya and his SecDef Robert Gates for cancelling the F-22.

65 posted on 04/02/2014 11:16:09 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: SpeakerToAnimals

The mantra during F-15 design was “not one pound for air to ground”. The result of this focus on air combat with no compromise is the only fighter plane in history never defeated in air combat. The F-22 could have been the next fighter to do this. So we dump it for a tri-service turd.

That is true until the Air Force grew tired of the bland single mission concept and developed the F-15E Mud Hen.

They’ve been itching to kill the A-10 because it’s ONLY a single mission aircraft (at one point a CAS variant of the F-16 was tested)
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article18.html

And these same morons later dictated that the F-22 had to be able to carry bombs


66 posted on 04/02/2014 11:17:08 AM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason)
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To: US Navy Vet

“The (Lockheed)A-12 was produced from 1962 to 1964, and was in operation from 1963 until 1968. It was the precursor to the twin-seat U.S. Air Force YF-12 prototype interceptor, M-21 drone launcher, and the famous SR-71 Blackbird reconnaissance aircraft.”

“The McDonnell Douglas/General Dynamics A-12 Avenger II was a proposed American attack aircraft from McDonnell Douglas and General Dynamics. It was to be an all-weather, carrier-based stealth bomber replacement for the Grumman A-6 Intruder in the United States Navy and Marine Corps. Its Avenger II name was taken from the Grumman TBF Avenger of World War II.

The development of the A-12 was troubled by cost overruns and several delays, causing questions of the program’s ability to deliver upon its objectives; these doubts led to the development program being canceled in 1991.”


67 posted on 04/02/2014 11:19:19 AM PDT by BwanaNdege
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To: BwanaNdege

I Stand CORRECTED!


68 posted on 04/02/2014 11:21:50 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: PreciousLiberty

“Gen. Michael Hostage (ironic name really)”

Could be worse....

We had a Major Dick when I was stationed in Germany, and no he didn’t live up to his name.


69 posted on 04/02/2014 11:24:58 AM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason)
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To: beelzepug

“I seem to recall that there were a lot of F-16 parts used in the F-117. Is that true?”

F-16, F/A-18, and F-15.


70 posted on 04/02/2014 11:38:21 AM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason)
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To: PreciousLiberty

I knew somebody would come along and correct me...


71 posted on 04/02/2014 11:48:07 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: 2CAVTrooper
The A-10 is the best close air support aircraft ever built. The Air Force has been trying to replace it with a pointy nose supersonic plane since the end of desert storm. It is impossible to replace it with an unarmored multi role fighter bomber. It is all about focus.

That is my point. The B-52 is still in service because any attempt to replace it would look much like it. A world class long range flying dump truck. The F-22 has the single mission focus.

A Suburban is like a multi role fighter bomber. It can haul lots of stuff, go off road, stomp through snow and tow trailers.

On a road race track a Corvette will kick it's ass. The F-35 is a Suburban. The F-22 is the Corvette.

72 posted on 04/02/2014 11:51:02 AM PDT by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: bigdaddy45

They have better accountability than all the other agencies.

How much can the Dept of Education account for?

HHS?

EPA?

DHS?

Funny though that you post an article by a guy (paltrow) who has ties with the America hating 0bama boot licking Center for American Progress.


73 posted on 04/02/2014 12:06:49 PM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason)
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To: 2CAVTrooper

You said the Pentagon can account for its money. It clearly can’t. Don’t shoot the messenger when you don’t have your facts straight.

Here’s a similar article from 2002. It quotes Donald Rumsfeld on the problem. Is he America hating too?

Clearly this has been an ongoing problem. You can assail the messengers all you want, but when it comes to finance, the Pentagon is inept bordering on criminal.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-war-on-waste/


74 posted on 04/02/2014 12:21:08 PM PDT by bigdaddy45
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To: TheBattman

The airframe for Navy aircraft has to be built MUCH stronger
with WAY more flexible landing gear to withstand a lifetime of carrier landings.

It’s stupid to have all that weight of airframe and landing gear on an Air Force version taking away useful payload from fuel and weapons.


75 posted on 04/02/2014 12:24:34 PM PDT by E.Allen
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To: E.Allen

They don’t have the same landing gear...


76 posted on 04/02/2014 12:36:54 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Kozak

My understanding was all the F-22 production materials were taken to Sierra Army Depot in Herlong, CA.

“A total of more than 30,000 jigs, fixtures and other “tooling” used to build the plane are being logged into a database and tucked into containers, some custom built, for long-term storage at Sierra Army Depot, Herlong, California.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-fighter-usa-lockheed-idUSTRE7BC09T20111213


77 posted on 04/02/2014 2:43:54 PM PDT by rustyboots
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To: US Navy Vet
I Stand CORRECTED!

'twert yore fault!

Sum gubmint idjot named 'em the SAME!!

Seriously, the only reason I looked it up was because I really like the stuff that came out of the Skunk Works.

Were you "Black shoe" or "Brown shoe"?

78 posted on 04/02/2014 4:36:11 PM PDT by BwanaNdege
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To: BwanaNdege

“Were you “Black shoe” or “Brown shoe”?”, BOTH(Was an “ABH” and then SCORE converted to “IS”).


79 posted on 04/02/2014 5:30:24 PM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: rustyboots

I hope that’s right. They might be able to resurrect the program if we come to our senses...


80 posted on 04/02/2014 5:57:36 PM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissinger)
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To: US Navy Vet

Ahh - from Yellow Shirt to Oxymoron!

I started out as an enlisted field radio operator, went to 81mm Mortar FO and years later ended up as the S-2 in a CH-53 squadron.

Unfortunately, the A/C of a -53 in which I was co-pilot managed to blow the LSE off the deck of the USS Coronado (LPD-11) at Rosy Roads. Thankfully, the nets caught him.

Join the Navy, see the World!

Join the Marines, see the World & the MUD!


81 posted on 04/02/2014 8:19:06 PM PDT by BwanaNdege
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"The F-35 has been in development for over a decade and they are STILL not correct."

It will be perfect the day it's scrapped.
82 posted on 04/03/2014 12:04:27 AM PDT by clearcarbon
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