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Could Connecticut Gun Laws Spark Another Waco?
thetruthaboutguns.com ^ | 4/1/14 | Dan Zimmerman

Posted on 04/03/2014 9:24:00 AM PDT by Nachum

There’s been a lot of discussion among members of the Armed Intelligentsia lately about how Connecticut’s finest might proceed if they decide to confiscate unregistered guns from the state’s 100,000 or more newly-minted felons. The level of concern is evidenced by daily long comment threads, speculative posts by people who are not members of law enforcement, and even a couple of contributed opinions from the LEO community. The rational consensus seems to be that if the gun-grab order were given, cops would pinch a registration scofflaw at the grocery store, at work, on the road…anyplace other than his or her home where a Ruby Ridge-style tragedy might ensue. Here I propose the alternative–that LEOs might not in fact be that rational if and when the time comes . . .

You may have read or at least heard about Malcolm Gladwell’s lookback at Waco in the New Yorker last week. It’s part book review (siege survivor Clive Doyle’s memoir has just been published), part interview and part history. Gladwell reprises what most people now know–that the Branch Davidians weren’t violent and almost certainly weren’t involved in the illegal gun trade or any other criminal enterprise. He also provides a brief and interesting history of the group, which was founded some 80 years before David Koresh came along.

Gladwell’s main theme, though, is the thought process and mentality of the law enforcement officials toward the end of the two-month siege. And that should give us all pause.

The F.B.I., to justify its decision to bring about a sudden and violent end to the siege, believed that the Branch Davidians were dangerously in the thrall of Koresh; it feared a catastrophic act like the mass suicide, in 1978, in Guyana, of the cult leader Jim Jones and his followers in the

(Excerpt) Read more at thetruthaboutguns.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; connecticut; gun; laws; waco
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1 posted on 04/03/2014 9:24:00 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

The billions of bullets ordered by Uncle Sam looks like they had a purpose after all.


2 posted on 04/03/2014 9:27:31 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: Nachum

It’s not the Laws, it’s the crazed selective enforcement.


3 posted on 04/03/2014 9:30:15 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Nachum

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2014/04/wargaming-opening-blows-of-civil-war-in.html


4 posted on 04/03/2014 9:30:48 AM PDT by Mechanicos (When did we amend the Constitution for a 2nd Federal Prohibition?)
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To: mountainlion

If LEO had any interest in pinching people at the convenience store they would do it with drug dealers. They don’t. They like to play stormtrooper so they bust doors, because they like it and because they can. If they confiscate in CT they will do it like they did it in NOLA. They will go door to door with stormtroopers.
That said, they won’t confiscate. They will talk tough but not do anything and just be happy that you can’t buy or sell any of those evil rifles any more.


5 posted on 04/03/2014 9:32:37 AM PDT by thorvaldr
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To: Nachum
"The rational consensus seems to be that if the gun-grab order were given, cops would pinch a registration scofflaw at the grocery store, at work, on the road"

"Pinch" them for what? First they would need evidence that the person was still in possession of a unregistered weapon within the State of Conn. They can't go arresting people just because at some time he once owned a weapon that now requires registration.

6 posted on 04/03/2014 9:34:02 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Paladin2
It’s not the Laws, it’s the crazed selective enforcersment.
7 posted on 04/03/2014 9:35:29 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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To: mountainlion
"The billions of bullets ordered by Uncle Sam looks like they had a purpose after all."

Yeah, especially considering they ordered the rest of the cartridges -- brass, primers and powder -- with 'em!

Yeah, I know... /smarta**. Can't help myself sometimes.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

8 posted on 04/03/2014 9:37:28 AM PDT by wku man (We are the 53%! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUXN0GDuLN4)
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To: Nachum
it feared a catastrophic act like the mass suicide

So instead they changed it to mass murder.

9 posted on 04/03/2014 9:45:39 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Nachum

“...the Branch Davidians weren’t violent...”

I must have been dreaming when I saw the Branch Davidians shooting at the ATF agents when they attempted to execute a search warrant for illegal weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsDBAixXJdM


10 posted on 04/03/2014 9:45:50 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Sodomy and abortion: the only constitutional "rights" cherished by Democrats.)
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To: mountainlion

The billions of bullets ordered by Uncle Sam looks like they had a purpose after all.

**************

They will come in handy after they are liberated and repurposed.


11 posted on 04/03/2014 9:53:07 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: circlecity; Nachum

“The rational consensus seems to be that if the gun-grab order were given, cops would pinch a registration scofflaw at the grocery store, at work, on the road”

No, they will come at you in force at home. The purpose is not to grab you, as they could if you were in a store, but to TERRORIZE YOU and to put the fear of such a thing happening to all others who have not registered.

By TERRORIZING YOU, they TERRORIZE everyone. The MSM will also be there to show the world what happens to scoffaws and it is a warning to others that “THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!” if you don’t turn in your guns.


12 posted on 04/03/2014 9:57:17 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Mechanicos
Thanks for the link - some Freepers seem to think that:
a) CT gun owners have it coming to us for electing these thugs (we did NOT for for them), and
b) CT gun owners will fold like cheap suits (although 100K+ of us "willingly" became instant felons because we will not comply).
13 posted on 04/03/2014 10:01:38 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: circlecity
They can't go arresting people just because at some time he once owned a weapon that now requires registration.

They can't, until they do.

Laws don't hem them in. They are only for the little people to obey.

14 posted on 04/03/2014 10:02:48 AM PDT by SIDENET
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

They’ll get away with it the first few times. After that...


15 posted on 04/03/2014 10:03:27 AM PDT by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: CitizenUSA

***I must have been dreaming when I saw the Branch Davidians shooting at the ATF agents***

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/03/31/140331fa_fact_gladwell

“I want you all to go back to your rooms and stay calm,” Doyle recalls Koresh saying, as federal agents descended on Mount Carmel. Doyle goes on, “I could hear David’s steps going down the hall toward the front door. . . . Then all of a sudden I heard David say: ‘Hey, wait a minute! There are women and children in here!’ Then all hell broke loose—just a barrage of shots from outside coming in. It sounded like a bloodbath.”


16 posted on 04/03/2014 10:03:40 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: CitizenUSA; Nachum
N>“...the Branch Davidians weren’t violent...”

I must have been dreaming when I saw the Branch Davidians shooting at the ATF agents when they attempted to execute a search warrant for illegal weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsDBAixXJdM

Wow are you confused !

Illegal weapons??
Guns owned and registered in the possession
of a registered FireArms Dealer !

If you look just below the surface the only ATF agents
killed that day were former Bill Clinton "bodyguards"


17 posted on 04/03/2014 10:06:24 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: Nachum
Could Connecticut Gun Laws Spark Another Waco?

Only if another Democrat administration plans to
burn down a church with the congregants in it.

18 posted on 04/03/2014 10:10:17 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: CitizenUSA
I saw the Branch Davidians shooting at the ATF agents

That's odd. I looked at the video you linked, and all I saw was government JBT's shooting. Maybe I missed it. Is there a point on there where it's clear that the BD's are shooting? In fact I think almost all of the deaths among the thugs were "friendly fire" Several were killed by a grenade that one of their fellow goons threw in the room with them.

19 posted on 04/03/2014 10:15:50 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Nachum

Yes! At Waco, the FBI was concerned about the safety of all those little children (it’s always about the children) that might come to harm with a continuation of the siege of the compound. So they killed the all. Hired killers, all of them.


20 posted on 04/03/2014 10:18:04 AM PDT by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country)
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To: from occupied ga

Davidians fired first through the wall of the building at ATF agents outside. The rest is history.


21 posted on 04/03/2014 10:30:44 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative
The rest is history.

As written by the side that wasn't the victim of genocide.

22 posted on 04/03/2014 10:32:22 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

Maybe, maybe not. End of discussion this topic has been beaten like Slick Willie’s Johnson.


23 posted on 04/03/2014 10:35:36 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: UriĀ’el-2012; from occupied ga; Ruy Dias de Bivar

Some folks will blame the ATF no matter what. Others will blame the Branch Davidians. I believe both sides screwed up. The ATF could have simply sent someone to peacefully knock, present the search warrant, and request compliance. The Branch Davidians could have submitted to the search warrant and/or surrendered after the first round of shooting.

There’s a Free Republic meme going around that ALL law enforcement are jack booted thugs. That’s not true, and I suspect a lot of it comes from the libertarians. I’m not saying there aren’t any jack booted thugs running around. There are. What I’m saying is there are good people in law enforcement, too.

Do I think we need to demilitarize the police? Oh, yeah. Do we need to crack down on the ATF and other federal agencies? Yes, definitely. Do we need to demonize and blame ALL law enforcement for the actions of some. No. We don’t.

Getting back to the point of this thread, I don’t know what I would do if I was a Connecticut gun owner. I believe in the rule of law, but what should I do when government itself becomes the lawbreaker (in this case, breaking the 2nd Amendment)? It’s a tough call, and I don’t blame gun owners who complied with the law or those who refused to comply. I wouldn’t raise a finger to help Connecticut confiscate anyone’s guns, but I don’t know if I would go so far as to disobey the law myself.


24 posted on 04/03/2014 10:40:09 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Sodomy and abortion: the only constitutional "rights" cherished by Democrats.)
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To: mountainlion

Like barack said...Don’t boo...organize.


25 posted on 04/03/2014 10:40:49 AM PDT by RedwM
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To: thorvaldr

I think Waco actually precludes them from doing another Waco, especially with the current cultural climate in the US. It could spark the Civil War everyone speculates about.


26 posted on 04/03/2014 10:42:07 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: Resolute Conservative

If both sides wanted to defuse the situation after the shooting started, they could have and probably would have. That means one or both sides didn’t want to end it. We’ll likely never know which.


27 posted on 04/03/2014 10:43:43 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Sodomy and abortion: the only constitutional "rights" cherished by Democrats.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

That’s a damn lie! Yes i’m callin for proof of who fired first. And the FBI “narrative” ain’t gonna work either.


28 posted on 04/03/2014 10:44:05 AM PDT by BigpapaBo (If it don't kill you it'll make you _________!)
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To: CitizenUSA

Yes, we do. None of the things you mention have as of yet been addressed in any meaningful way, and I suspect they never will unless forced. Further it is likely the number of good ones is far less than you believe.

Until such time as the good ones police their own we may as well treat them the same way they have been treating the citizens: No respect, guilty of something until proven otherwise, ignoring the laws themselves.

Us vs. them is their attitude, they have asked for this.


29 posted on 04/03/2014 10:56:43 AM PDT by KEVLAR (Liberty or Death)
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To: CitizenUSA
What I’m saying is there are good people in law enforcement, too

Probably a goodly number, but how do they react to the presence of the gestapo wannbes in their ranks? With silence. When every peasant shot and killed is a "good shoot"* how do you separate the thrill killers with a badge vs the honest cops?

*In the last ten years only two incidents resulted in criminal prosecution of police for killing citizens. One was the danziger bridge incident in New Orleans, and two the Kathryn Johnson incident in Atlanta. In neither case were the police prosecuted for murder, but things like violation of oath of office which calrries a much lesser sentence.

30 posted on 04/03/2014 10:58:10 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: BigpapaBo

If you say so inspector gadget, were you there? I didn’t think so.


31 posted on 04/03/2014 10:59:06 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Nachum
More likely to spark another Poland.
32 posted on 04/03/2014 11:00:38 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("A man who damns money obtained it dishonorably; a man who respects it has earned it." --Ayn Rand)
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To: Resolute Conservative

So you were there?


33 posted on 04/03/2014 11:03:21 AM PDT by MileHi
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To: circlecity

My first thought exactly. For what would the pinch them? For having purchased a firearm at some point in the past? That’s propable cause that they’re currently in possession of a prohibited firearm? Oh, please.


34 posted on 04/03/2014 11:05:22 AM PDT by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: CitizenUSA

“I must have been dreaming when I saw the Branch Davidians shooting at the ATF agents”

I saw that too! Odd that the agents were hiding behind vehicles that miraculously had intact window glass in the fusillade of bullets from the compound.


35 posted on 04/03/2014 11:08:48 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: CitizenUSA; Ruy Dias de Bivar; UriĀ’el-2012; from occupied ga
when they attempted to execute a search warrant for illegal weapons.

And I will also add:

This did not happen in Waco, it happened in Mt. Carmel. David Koresh and the Mc Lellan County Sheriff knew each other and often saw each other in Town. (And IIRC that morning.) All the fedstupids had to do was go through the proper channels (County Sheriff) and there would have been a much better outcome in this mess (caused by the feds) ALL the Branch Dravidian's did was RETURN DEFENSIVE FIRE AFTER the feds started it.

There were NO ILLEGAL WEAPONS!!!

Last I knew the burned to a crisp “arsenal” was still in the Texas DPS vault in Austin and NO MEDIA/LAWYERS/PUBLIC were allowed access to the “evidence”

And even at that The Davidian's were a Class III Firearms Dealer- so Full Auto is NOT an issue here.

And before you pull out the "grenades" delivered by UPS they were INERT!!!

The Front Door had ALL INCOMING rounds in it and was conveniently burned in the final assault by the feds when they pumped CS Gas into the building (with a TANK!) and tossed in an Incendiary to torch the place to destroy evidence.

Shall I continue?

36 posted on 04/03/2014 11:10:24 AM PDT by mabarker1 (Please, Somebody Impeach the kenyan!!!!)
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To: Resolute Conservative

since you chose to wear your butt on your shoulders...let’s ax this....what were the dividians guilty of ?


37 posted on 04/03/2014 11:12:16 AM PDT by advertising guy ( <------------- lotta white in here ------------>)
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To: Resolute Conservative

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3140446/posts?page=17#17


38 posted on 04/03/2014 11:12:17 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
Davidians fired first through the wall of the building at ATF agents outside.

BULL$H!T

The rest is history.

That part you got right.

39 posted on 04/03/2014 11:15:03 AM PDT by mabarker1 (Please, Somebody Impeach the kenyan!!!!)
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To: Nachum

Unlike Waco there will be many causalities on the government side also if this unconstitutional law continues.


40 posted on 04/03/2014 11:19:08 AM PDT by Logical me
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To: Resolute Conservative

Where’s your proof?


41 posted on 04/03/2014 11:20:46 AM PDT by BigpapaBo (If it don't kill you it'll make you _________!)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
If you look just below the surface the only ATF agents killed that day were former Bill Clinton "bodyguards"

And allegedly, Bill Bufford killed his own boys either by purpose or negligence.

42 posted on 04/03/2014 11:31:49 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: BigpapaBo

I believe neither side. Point is that we will never know and anyone who was not there has no knowledge. People that purport to “know” the facts are about as reliable as those that know what happened in Bengahzi.


43 posted on 04/03/2014 11:33:05 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Paladin2

Power exercised arbitrarily is the highest form of power.


44 posted on 04/03/2014 11:34:51 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: advertising guy

Nothing to warrant a full raid.


45 posted on 04/03/2014 11:35:14 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: BigpapaBo

I suppose if we had the front door we could see which direction the bullet holes were going...

but for some reason, the FBI confiscated that.


46 posted on 04/03/2014 11:36:10 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: advertising guy

The proof that the gov’t wanted a violent, genocidally deadly confrontation is in the fact that they could have picked up Koresh during the many times he was outside “the compound”.

They wanted a show of force.


47 posted on 04/03/2014 11:38:02 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Resolute Conservative

let’s keep playin then...what did the feds say they did....remember they changed the charges 4 times.....


48 posted on 04/03/2014 11:41:17 AM PDT by advertising guy ( <------------- lotta white in here ------------>)
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To: Nachum

I re-watched the documentary on Waco the other night. What really caught my attention was how different the media situation is now.

Now, with social media (internet), talk radio, and alternative news sources a Waco-type situation would not be a small group of people alone against the world, it might turn into a walking army of like-minded individuals who would show up in droves to support Justice and True Peace.

Once enough people show up (with their protective armament) the stand-off would.... well, I don’t see those ATF/FBI losers coming out of that one alive. And there would be no safe haven once it really touched off. I don’t care how many Bradleys you bring.

The Battle of Athens comes to mind.


49 posted on 04/03/2014 11:41:36 AM PDT by Noamie
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To: MrB

for what EXACT purpose ?????


50 posted on 04/03/2014 11:42:02 AM PDT by advertising guy ( <------------- lotta white in here ------------>)
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