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Czech leader says NATO could offer troops to Ukraine if Russia goes beyond Crimea
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/06/us-ukraine-crisis-nato-czech-idUSBREA350LY20140406 ^ | 4-6-2014 | Robert Muller

Posted on 04/06/2014 8:16:23 PM PDT by tcrlaf

The West should take strong action, possibly including sending NATO forces to Ukraine, if Russia tries to annex the eastern part of the country, Czech President Milos Zeman said on Sunday.

"The moment Russia decides to widen its territorial expansion to the eastern part of Ukraine, that is where the fun ends," Zeman said in a broadcast on Czech public radio.

"There I would plead not only for the strictest EU sanctions, but even for military readiness of the North Atlantic Alliance, like for example NATO forces entering Ukrainian territory," Zeman said.

Pro-Russian protesters seized state buildings in three east Ukrainian cities on Sunday, triggering accusations from the pro-European government in Kiev that President Vladimir Putin was orchestrating "separatist disorder".

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: crimea; czech; czechrepublic; europeanunion; nato; russia; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; yuliatymoshenko
Another idiot...
1 posted on 04/06/2014 8:16:23 PM PDT by tcrlaf
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To: tcrlaf

No. Let China handle it.


2 posted on 04/06/2014 8:19:05 PM PDT by Dallas59 (Obama: The first "White Black" President.)
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To: tcrlaf

If eastern Ukraine secedes, is NATO going to employ troops to keep the country together by force?

Russia wouldn’t go in unless NATO did so first and I don’t see that happening.

The Ukrainian crisis has to be solved by Ukrainians themselves.


3 posted on 04/06/2014 8:19:55 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: tcrlaf

Fine. Make sure they are Czech, sugar.


4 posted on 04/06/2014 8:20:06 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: Psalm 144

The Czechs Legions fought in the Russian Civil War.

This is not a repeat of 1956 or 1968. Russia is not forcing a particular socio-political system upon Eastern Europe.

The age of empires went out with the telegraph and steam ships.


5 posted on 04/06/2014 8:23:57 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: tcrlaf

Offer your own troops, bucko....


6 posted on 04/06/2014 8:24:33 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: goldstategop

The Czechs Legions fought in the Russian Civil War.

*********

Yes they did. To no effect.


7 posted on 04/06/2014 8:25:21 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: goldstategop
The Czechs Legions fought in the Russian Civil War.

In fact, they were in the area of Ekaterinburg, and as a result, the Bolsheviks decided then to execute the Tsar and his family, because they thought the Czechs were there to try to free them.

8 posted on 04/06/2014 8:25:38 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

The beginning of 70 years plus of Communist despoilation of Russia.

In 1910, all that was years in the future.


9 posted on 04/06/2014 8:28:54 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: tcrlaf

Yes, the Czechs know so much less than you do about Russian cruelty and aggression. You are a genius.


10 posted on 04/06/2014 8:38:21 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: goldstategop
Yes, it is a repeat of 1956 and 1968. It's painfully obvious. Classic KGB fingerprints.

You are such a lickspittle for Shirtless Stalin.

11 posted on 04/06/2014 8:40:40 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: goldstategop

Poland would definitely move into Western Ukraine if it were threatened. NATO wouldn’t be able to hold them back.


12 posted on 04/06/2014 8:41:43 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: tcrlaf
This leader doesn't seem to understand.Osama Obama promised “flexibility” to Vladamir Putin.And the world knows that when Obama makes a promise...he keeps it.
13 posted on 04/06/2014 8:47:01 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Stalin Blamed The Kulaks,Obama Blames The Tea Party)
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To: wideawake

Which no body has seen.

And it still isn’t a replay of the Cold War.


14 posted on 04/06/2014 8:52:18 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
And it still isn’t a replay of the Cold War.

Don't ruin their fantasy.
15 posted on 04/06/2014 9:08:47 PM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: tcrlaf

Ukraine isn’t in NATO. Insane that Americans should be refighting WWII Battles against the Russian Army, on the same battlefields where they fought Nazis.

Lunacy


16 posted on 04/06/2014 9:17:30 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: tcrlaf
First of all, Eastern Ukraine is extremely far from consensus on leaving the Kievan Ukraine. There are some who want autonomy now, but there are also those who do not - and neither form an overwhelming majority (as it was in Crimea.) As I said a month ago, Eastern Ukraine is not ready to join Russia, and it may never be ready.

With regard to "Russian troops entering Ukraine," I am sure that nothing of the sort will happen; not at first, at least. Putin have seen how this game is played, and he even played a round himself, in Crimea. First you make sure that a sufficient part of the population supports you. Then you have a referendum. Then the territory is ready to be collected. Only after that the troops may officially appear; but it will be too late.

NATO would have to be insane to intervene. Putin may order a tactical nuclear strike, a sub-kiloton one, just to put NATO on notice, if necessary. But it will not be necessary. His troops can inflict an unacceptable damage on NATO troops without even leaving their bases. The USA have made the MOAB, but Russia have made the FOAB. NATO is very sensitive to loss of life among their soldiers. Russians, on the other hand, would be attacked on "their land" (of Russia or of Ukraine - does not matter.)

I cannot say that NATO is above and beyond using force against countries that are not involved with NATO members. Yugoslavia and Libya are examples of that. However those were expendable and certified weaklings, and there was no boots on the ground (outside of a few special forces.)

Most of all, use of force is triggered by political needs. There was, arguably, some need (however contrived) to engage Yugoslavia and Libya. There was little risk. But I don't see at this time what can be gained from traveling 2,000 miles to the East and engaging Russians on their border. The parallels with the World War II would be extremely appropriate - especially considering that Stalin haven't been sitting idly at the Polish border either, after having signed the secret treaty with Germany, and fresh from the Winter War with Finland.

So what is likely? I'd say further instability is likely in Eastern Ukraine. If it culminates in autonomy of those regions then you can write them off - they will be eventually Russian, and NATO can't do a thing about it because no troops will be involved. NATO cannot fight popular sentiments. But I can't see how Kiev can allow that autonomy to happen. First, Kiev had been given a lesson already, and they had to learn at least something from that lesson. Second, Kiev can deploy and use Ukrainian troops in those regions. Third, those troops would be from Western Ukraine - they will not change sides as readily as it was done in Crimea. Fourth, there are no natural borders around the disputed lands (they were in Crimea.) There are other steps to take. The only weakness in Kiev's position that I can see now is that Ukraine is poor, and it is doomed to become poorer. Kiev may simply have no money to send to the East - and without money from Kiev the residents will gladly take the money from Moscow. As the proverb says, "A donkey loaded with gold will take a city that a ten thousand strong army will not." Russia has gold; Obama have sent some already, via Kiev, and he will send more :-)

17 posted on 04/06/2014 9:29:09 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Greysard

Germany would never participate in military action designed to force Russian troops out of the Ukraine. Others would balk wary of the nuclear scenario and the loss of life you describe.Very unlikely that NATO would has a consensus for military action. It is clear that Putin wants a contiguous land connection to Crimea. However it is not clear if Ukraine will resist militarily and may negotiate a land for debt swap.


18 posted on 04/06/2014 9:47:55 PM PDT by allendale
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To: tcrlaf

The Czechs want a war with Russia? They can lead the way! We can be the ones to send rear-echelon support for a change!


19 posted on 04/06/2014 10:03:19 PM PDT by BradyLS (DO NOT FEED THE BEARS!)
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To: Greysard; no-to-illegals; All

I radio commentator (former CIA I think) said that Russia could probably take the Ukraine in 3 to 5 days, but then the fun would begin because the Ukrainians are very good at partisan warfare. Another Afghanistan, but with trees to hide among?


20 posted on 04/06/2014 11:16:31 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: tcrlaf

The Velvet Divorce between Czech and Slovak may actually be a peaceful model for Ukraine. However, I would get more upset if Russia tries to take over west Ukraine, or the Baltics. That to me is the real problem.


21 posted on 04/07/2014 1:07:44 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: All

Nah.

Just fund the Chechnyans in the South for kicks.


22 posted on 04/07/2014 1:50:45 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: gleeaikin
Russia could probably take the Ukraine in 3 to 5 days, but then the fun would begin because the Ukrainians are very good at partisan warfare.

Don't we know it, after Afghanistan and Iraq? It's much easier to destroy the organized opposition (the army,) than to defeat the people. This is why I believe that (a) Eastern Ukraine is not ready for taking, and (b) there will be no military conquest. If Eastern provinces are going to be taken, it will be done peacefully. As Maidan events demonstrated, only a ruthless government can survive against the "unarmed opposition" in the streets. If the government doesn't shoot, it will be hunted down and beaten into submission. If the government does shoot, it will be hunted down and killed for that bloodshed. Only the true dictator, like Saddam Hussein, could get out of this situation alive. (Note also that Al Sisi of Egypt did the same trick with machine guns on helicopters. He had to order the streets power-washed after that.) None of that will be allowed to happen in Ukraine, even if there is anyone in Kiev who'd want to get blood on his hands. This means that if Russia sets up large enough protests (which is just a matter of money and planning,) then the Ukrainian government will be unable to do anything about that.

23 posted on 04/07/2014 1:57:27 AM PDT by Greysard
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To: goldstategop

Our Aircraft Carriers, and Nuclear Submarines are steam ships.


24 posted on 04/07/2014 2:22:19 AM PDT by castlegreyskull
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To: tcrlaf

Exactly. I hate NATO since Serbia.


25 posted on 04/07/2014 2:31:07 AM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: tcrlaf
"Another idiot... "

Yep. Disgusting.

So here goes Puti for you !


Want him shirtless... ?
26 posted on 04/07/2014 4:09:57 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: gleeaikin

Read yesterday three cities in eastern Ukraine took over parliamentary buildings from police. Also read one city has voted from a self-appointed council to ask russia to send in troops, in order that they may join Russia by May 15. I actually thought putin would invade a little over a week ago. I was wrong, thankfully. Can’t trust obama and his minions to stay out had russia invaded and obama and his minions not staying on the sidelines would not be helpful to the entire region (imho). Thus playing the waiting game on Ukraine is our best move at this point (imho) and allowing Ukraine’s People to make the decisions.


27 posted on 04/07/2014 10:45:25 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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