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Donetsk proclaims independence from Ukraine
http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/donetsk-proclaims-independence-from-ukraine/article5883598.ece ^

Posted on 04/07/2014 10:11:55 AM PDT by MNDude

Pro-Russia activists in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk have proclaimed independence from Ukraine and asked Russia to send in troops to protect them from the government in Kiev.

Protesters who had occupied the regional government headquarters in Donetsk on Sunday set up a People’s Council of Donetsk and voted unanimously on Monday to break away from Ukraine and form "the sovereign state of the People’s Republic of Donetsk."

The self-proclaimed Council decided to call a referendum on splitting from Ukraine and joining Russia before May 11, that is ahead of Ukrainian presidential elections set for May 25.

"The Donetsk Republic is to be created within the administrative borders of the Donetsk region. This decision will come into effect after the referendum," the activists said in a statement.

In a separate address to Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Donetsk Council asked him to deploy a temporary peacekeeping force to the region.

"Without your support and the support of Russia, it will be hard for us to stand against the junta in Kiev," said the address.

(Excerpt) Read more at thehindu.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: donetsk; news; putin; russia; ukraine; ukrainecrisis

1 posted on 04/07/2014 10:11:55 AM PDT by MNDude
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To: MNDude

Its Germany of the 1930’s all over again.


2 posted on 04/07/2014 10:13:18 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: MNDude

here we go again


3 posted on 04/07/2014 10:13:23 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: MNDude

So what if mexico did this with San Diego or even L.A.?
No different really.


4 posted on 04/07/2014 10:14:20 AM PDT by epluribus_2 (he had the best mom - ever.)
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To: MNDude

Now what’s Obama going to do... pull Pizza Hut out of Ukraine?


5 posted on 04/07/2014 10:14:49 AM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: epluribus_2
So what if mexico did this with San Diego or even L.A.? No different really.

Big difference: we can kick Mexico's butt (well, normally...if Obozo wasn't the CIC).

6 posted on 04/07/2014 10:15:57 AM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: MNDude

Now the rubber has hit the road.....Crimea was one thing, but Donetsk is another, not nearly the Russian majority there as in Crimea...what will Kiev do in response?


7 posted on 04/07/2014 10:17:19 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: MNDude

Actually there was a Donetsk–Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic just after the end of the First World War. It was short-lived.

Pro-Russian protesters seek to revive it in lieu of being incorporated into Russia.

Donetsk separatism has a history going back nearly a century.


8 posted on 04/07/2014 10:20:59 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: MNDude

Now we are getting into the range of < 40% ethnic Russians.


9 posted on 04/07/2014 10:36:28 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: dfwgator

“not nearly the Russian majority there as in Crimea”

Ethnic Russians are a small minoity in the Donetsk Oblast. More ethnic Russians voted to go with the Ukraine than voted to go with Russia in the last voting referendum in 1991. This is a clearcut case of Putin’s Russian regime recruiting a millitant minority of fifth columnists or agents to foment violence and to overthrow the government majority of the population in Donetsk.

Donetsk Oblast
Ethnic Russian 38.2%;
Voted against Ukraine independence from Russia 12%


10 posted on 04/07/2014 10:39:42 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

If Kiev doesn’t counter this, the situation will deteriorate rapidly.


11 posted on 04/07/2014 10:40:32 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
Hi.

If Kiev doesn’t counter this, the situation will deteriorate rapidly.

It already is, and will get worst [depending on your pov].

5.56mm

12 posted on 04/07/2014 10:42:30 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Don Corleone

Besides the fact that the Ukranian government is filled with members of the “Socialist-Nationalist” party which glorifies the genocidal, Nazi-aligned Banderites of the 1940s, how so?

By 1933, Hitler had burned the Reichstag, opened up the Orangeburg and Dachau death camps, declared Germany must be rid of the Jews, passed the Enabling Acts setting up a dictatorship, etc.

It amazes me the absolute stupidity of comparing every territorial battle with Hitler. Maybe there might be similarities with the Sudetenland if the Sudentenland had been German, the Czech government had been overthrown by thugs, the sudetenland to secede from the Czech government over the ouster, and implored Germany for reunification, but since that didn’t happen, I can only presume you don’t know what the hell you are talking about.


13 posted on 04/07/2014 10:43:49 AM PDT by dangus
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To: MNDude

What next?

“We declare the sovereignty and independence of the corner of Nikolaivich Avenue and East Third Street!”


14 posted on 04/07/2014 10:43:54 AM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: dfwgator

Putin has setup this situation to make it so any reaction by the Ukraine is an excuse for a Russian invasion and any lack of raction will also be a Russian excuse for an invasion. It is time for a response from the Ukrainian goverment and from the members of NATO. The EU now faces its critical juncture in the road, appeasement or a commitment to a forward defense of the rest of Europe.


15 posted on 04/07/2014 10:44:09 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: dfwgator

They are discussing some sort of anti-terrorist action against separatists, but the Interior Minister already declared they won’t shoot. What a pathetic idiot, this is exactly the attitude that lost them Crimea.


16 posted on 04/07/2014 10:45:09 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: dangus

Doing well, go lick some boots now.


17 posted on 04/07/2014 10:47:25 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: WhiskeyX

All of this strengthens the case for a federal solution.

Its better Ukrainians reach an accord on one and soon. Or the May elections will rendered meaningless.

Of course, this depends on whether the authorities in Kiev are willing to respond to protesters’ demands or let events take their course. Blaming Russia will be of no help.


18 posted on 04/07/2014 10:47:48 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: WhiskeyX

Russians and Ukranians are both Eastern Slavs. By “ethnic Russians,” what is meant is “people moved (or whose ancestors moved) to the Ukraine since 1920.” 75% of Donestk residents speak Russian, and not Ukrainian.

In 1991, Russia was still a dictatorship, and the Ukraine represented freedom. If you asked Muscovites would they rather Moscow be separated from the Soviet Union, I’m sure you’d get near 90%. But since then, the Soviet Union has fallen, and the Ukrainian government has been replaced by an anti-Democratic mob. (Yanukovich could have been replaced by May during the regularly scheduled election.)


19 posted on 04/07/2014 10:50:05 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Samogon

The complete intellectual bankruptcy of your position is made obvious by your comment. Thank you.


20 posted on 04/07/2014 10:50:51 AM PDT by dangus
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To: MNDude

How dare them try and over-through their own government. [/irony]


21 posted on 04/07/2014 10:51:36 AM PDT by McGruff (Want to hurt Mozilla? Don't use Firefox's search bar. That is their money maker.)
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To: dangus

Take your delusions to Russia Today - they would love to hear from another Putinoid lunatic.


22 posted on 04/07/2014 10:55:34 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: McGruff

Incomparable.
Popular uprising in Kyiv is called Dignity Revolution.
What is happening in Donetsk is Russian special operation. Not too slick either, IMHO :)


23 posted on 04/07/2014 10:59:43 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: dangus

Stupidity is labeling the Ukrainians Nazis and ignoring the behavior of Russia.

The far right has a prominent role in Russian politics. There has been a pile of murdered journalists in Putin’s Russia. Mass arrests and imprisonment of the opposition in Russia. Etc., Etc. All of that yet you look under every rock for banderites.

It seems your Russophile tendancies are blinding to to the facts at hand, FRiend.


24 posted on 04/07/2014 11:12:11 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: dangus

“The complete intellectual bankruptcy of your position is made obvious by your comment. Thank you.”

The “pro-Ukrainians” (more likely pro-Banderas) ID’s suddenly active on FR would be far better served with intelligent discussion, than insulting anyone not buying the Daily Kos-like line.

They reflect here what is going on inside Ukraine. The radicals have taken control, they are intolerant of dissent, and those that have an option want out.


25 posted on 04/07/2014 11:26:04 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: WhiskeyX
This is a clearcut case of Putin’s Russian regime recruiting a millitant minority of fifth columnists or agents to foment violence and to overthrow the government majority of the population in Donetsk.

Exactly.

26 posted on 04/07/2014 11:26:33 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Play the 'Knockout Game' with someone owning a 9mm and you get what you deserve)
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To: WhiskeyX

“This is a clearcut case of Putin’s Russian regime recruiting a millitant minority of fifth columnists or agents to foment violence and to overthrow the government majority of the population in Donetsk.”

To a point, I disagree. Yes, Putin is taking advantage of already existing animosities. Really, he would be stupid not to. he is a student of Machiavelli, after all.

But, this was predicted to happen 2 months ago, and the only people who seem surprised by it are the Ukrainians. That the new government cannot seem to project much influence outside of Kiev says a lot, as well.

Remember, this a country near anarchy, on the verge of a civil war, that has been a corruption haven on the brink of economic collapse for quite a while.

Losing the Donetsk region, the most industrialized part of Ukraine, would be a body blow to the new government.


27 posted on 04/07/2014 11:34:03 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Samogon

Just to illustrate your utter ignorance, Kiev is now being run in part by the Socialist-Nationalist party, whereas the Russians are supporting a candidate who happens to be Jewish.


28 posted on 04/07/2014 11:35:32 AM PDT by dangus
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To: lodi90
Look under every rock for Banderites? Let's see what rocks you can find self-proclaimed Banderites:

Why the new Minister for Sport. That's the ministry in charge of firearms.

And the Vice Prime Minister.

And the General Prosecutor.

The party is now called Svoboda, since the arrival of presidential candidate Tyanhbok. But lest you think that Tyanhbok was trying to moderate the Nazi associations, he came on board promising to rid the Ukraine of the "Muscovite-Jewish Mafia" which "controlled the banking industry." Of course, the Ukrainian banking industry is really controlled by indicted President candidate and Svoboda ally Petro Poroshenko.

29 posted on 04/07/2014 12:04:16 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

A small vocal minority will win out over a disorganized and divided majority. Putin is forcing Ukraine to act in a thuggish way—so he can invade with “peacekeepers” and snach up western Ukraine. Tartars in East Ukraine would be wise to move west. Russians in West Ukraine would be wise to move east before they are targeted. This is Ukraine Part Two-— NATO and Obama vs Putin. The ball is in our court now.


30 posted on 04/07/2014 12:26:47 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

Of course, Putin is making Tymoshenko call for the genocide of all Russians! Why didn’t I see it, before? Besides it being the most incredible ridiculous nonsense ever uttered.


31 posted on 04/07/2014 12:50:21 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

And please, if you’re going to write as if you are an expert on the Ukraine, for God’s sake, learn East from West.


32 posted on 04/07/2014 12:50:52 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Samogon
No need to shoot. Gas motherfuckers, Dubrovka style.
33 posted on 04/07/2014 1:38:36 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Samogon
No need to shoot. Gas motherfuckers, Dubrovka style.
34 posted on 04/07/2014 1:39:10 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: Grzegorz 246

Gas won’t work on zombies. Bullets do.


35 posted on 04/07/2014 1:45:13 PM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: dangus

Thank you for proving my point. Again in a post you ignore the murdering KGB thug in the room and all the nutballs in the Russian Duma. Including the Vice Chairman who is currently advocating Molotov-Ribbentrop 2.0. That is not an idle threat since Russia has a long history of murdering its neighbors.

Why are you ignoring the KGB killer and yet worry about some dime bag Ukrainian rabble? Buy a clue and notice which country is terrorizing its neighbor right now. It isn’t those evil “banderites”, FRiend.


36 posted on 04/07/2014 2:51:54 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: MNDude

Pro-Russia activists declare east Ukraine independent

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/07/ukraine-gunmen-seized-building/7410151/


37 posted on 04/07/2014 3:28:33 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: goldstategop

“All of this strengthens the case for a federal solution.”

On the contrary, the so-called “federal solution” being shoved down the Ukraine’s throat by Putin’s Russian regime and their cronies like yourself was designed from Day One to make it easier for Russia to invade the Ukraine and claim the federal state being invaded had invited Russian intervention, conquest, and annexation to Russia, just as this currently being attempted right now by the Russian Spetsnaz and FSB operatives masquerading as militant Russophone protest leaders. This is all a staged sham, of course, given that the Russians are only a small one-quarter to one-third or less minority of the population of these Oblasts. This is nothing but naked aggression and conquest by Russia, which has been outlawed since the early 20th Century by the Kellogg-Briand Pact and additional treaties.

“Of course, this depends on whether the authorities in Kiev are willing to respond to protesters’ demands or let events take their course. Blaming Russia will be of no help.”

Putin’s renegade Russian regime has instigated every step of this crisis in a deliberate effort to destablize the economy and the government of the Ukraine, including using Yanukovych and his criminal ministers to do the dirty work. Key leaders of the so-called protestors, really foreign and domestic insurrectionists and traitors, are Russian agents working for the Russian FSB and GRU. The scenario they are acting out now is the same type of game plan for destablizing European governments which the Soviet Spetsnaz trained for in their wargames in 1974 in preparation for a Soviet and Warsaw pact invasion of Western Europe. So, your false propaganda is a transparent fraud in support of an Soviet/Russian tactic old enough to have its own grandchildren.


38 posted on 04/07/2014 3:50:25 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: epluribus_2
So what if mexico did this with San Diego or even L.A.? No different really.

More like what if the US took California from Mexico - or even better, what if we sent citizens into Texas, they proclaimed their independence, and then asked to be merged into the US.

The strong do what they can, the weak do what they must.

There's nothing new under the sun,

39 posted on 04/07/2014 3:53:49 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: tcrlaf

“To a point, I disagree. Yes, Putin is taking advantage of already existing animosities. Really, he would be stupid not to. he is a student of Machiavelli, after all.”

That is false propaganda, insofar as it falsely attempts to shift the responsibility for the events to the Ukrainians while entirely denying the fact Putin’s Russian regime engineered the incidents and the animosities engendered by those incidents.

“But, this was predicted to happen 2 months ago,”

Yes, it is very easy for Putin’s Russian regime to predict these events when it was themselves who instigated and sustained the conflicts.

“and the only people who seem surprised by it are the Ukrainians.”

That is more false propaganda, because it is no surprise whatsoever to the Ukrainians, with the exception of Putin’s Ukranian puppet leaders who were double-crossed, have largely served their purpose for the Russians, and can now be liquidated when convenient or earlier.

“That the new government cannot seem to project much influence outside of Kiev says a lot, as well.”

Putin’s Russian regime is responsible for the Ukraine’s inability to make a forceful response for a number of good reasons. Foremost is the way in which Putin helped to put Yanukovych into power and keep him there long enough to appoint Ministers who were also part of the Donbas organized crime group operating under Putin’s discipline. When the popular revolt displaced his puppets from control of the Ukrainian government, Putin resorted to the faster and more direct expedient of using and threatening direct insurrections and military force.

“Remember, this a country near anarchy, on the verge of a civil war, that has been a corruption haven on the brink of economic collapse for quite a while.”

All of which was organized by Putin’s Russian regime for many years. When the Ukrainian people finally had enough corruption in their government and used their oversight to stop the corruption, Putin resorted to the direct alternative of using military force to do what covert political means had failed to accomplish.

“Losing the Donetsk region, the most industrialized part of Ukraine, would be a body blow to the new government.”

Which is why it was a key target of Putin’s Russian regime, despite the fact Ukrainians and non-Russians represent a large majority of the population of the Donetsk Oblast.


40 posted on 04/07/2014 4:12:13 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

So...
Putin is the Devil Reincarnated, and therefore we are just supposed to forget everything the US State Department, the NGO’s and the Ukrainians themselves have done, and everything that has come before?

Ukraine has been on international criminal hot lists almost since it creation. Is it just too politically inconvenient?


41 posted on 04/07/2014 4:22:27 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: WhiskeyX

“and their cronies like yourself”

Dude...
This hate and insults thing just has to stop. Do you really think that it brings any intelligent person to your side?


42 posted on 04/07/2014 4:24:42 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf

“Dude...
This hate and insults thing just has to stop. Do you really think that it brings any intelligent person to your side?”

Now you are using the Alinsky tactic of using a false allegation to put your target on the defensive. It isn’t going to work. There is no hate whatsoever in what I wrote. What I wrote is the truth about what Putin has done in the past, is doing at present, and appears to be facilitating to do in the future. Putin is known to have engaged in in a variety of criminal activities involving organized crime, drug trafficing, official corruption, looting the state treasury, KGB-FSB coovert assasinations, and likely murder. yet you try to falsely portray this criminal as something quite different and pull the hate card when called to account for your freindliness towards such a person. Your comments are gross distortions of the truth and sometimes outright lies calculated to demean the Ukrainians. Given your praise for Putin and his Russian regime, it appears you consider yourself to be a friend of Putin’s and the Russians committing the aggressions against the Ukrainians. This appears to indicate you are in fact associating yourself with Putin’s cronies.

You also appear to insult easily while freely insulting the Ukrainians and anyone who would defend their rights.


43 posted on 04/07/2014 8:40:07 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Please link to any insults I have made about Ukraine.
OH WAIT...
You can’t.

I have no dog in this fight, YOU however, seem to carry a personal grudge.

Noting the facts as presented isn’t “friendly toward Putin”. Only a fool would argue that.

And every argument has two sides.


44 posted on 04/07/2014 8:44:22 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf

“Ukraine has been on international criminal hot lists almost since it creation. Is it just too politically inconvenient?”

“Is it just too politically inconvenient” for you to acknowledge the obvious truth that Yanukovych and the Donbas ministers he appointed are agents and puppets for Putin’s organized crime syndicate and secret police?


45 posted on 04/07/2014 9:30:07 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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