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Are the wealthy really leaving NJ? Study says yes [moving to states with lower taxes]
CNBC ^ | March 19, 2014 | Robert Frank

Posted on 04/07/2014 12:49:20 PM PDT by grundle

A new study says the wealthy are fleeing New Jersey for lower-tax states like Florida and Pennsylvania. But like many similar studies, it fails to prove a clear cause and effect between the movements of the rich and taxes.

The report, from the New Jersey wealth-management firm RegentAtlantic Capital, has been lighting up the New Jersey media and websites. It says that in 2010 alone, New Jersey lost taxable income of $5.5 billion because residents moved. It ties the wealth flight to the state's "millionaire's tax," which raised taxes on those making $500,000 or more (roughly the top 1 percent of New Jersey taxpayers) starting in 2004.

In a four-year period before the millionaire's tax, the aggregate net worth in the state increased by $98 billion, the report said. After the tax, the net outflow reversed "70 percent of the wealth gained in the prior four years," the report said.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...


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Unfortunately, as soon as they relocate to the states with lower taxes, they vote for candidates who support higher taxes.
1 posted on 04/07/2014 12:49:20 PM PDT by grundle
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To: grundle

How nice...they left out the hoards leaving NY and California for the exact same reason. Sorry...my fault I forgot ONE state has a GOP governor.


2 posted on 04/07/2014 12:55:14 PM PDT by IC Ken
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To: grundle

New Jersey?
3 posted on 04/07/2014 12:57:18 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: grundle

This article makes it clear why you will never see an advertisement proclaiming “Collectors! Now available in limited quantities, The Christie Presidential Inaugural Plate!”


4 posted on 04/07/2014 1:05:00 PM PDT by iacovatx (Conservatism is the political center--it is not "right" of center)
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To: grundle
There are a few things worth noting here:

1. People from New Jersey have been moving to Pennsylvania and Florida for years. People move to Pennsylvania for cheaper housing (but many of them still work in New Jersey anyway, which means they pay New Jersey income taxes). People move to Florida when they retire, which means they are past their prime earning years anyway.

2. The bigger problem New Jersey faces is that a lot of their professional class is moving to places like Virginia, North Carolina and Texas. These moves are driven mainly by relocations of employers, which is a very big problem in the long term.

3. For the "richest of the rich," what is likely to be the final nail in the coffin is the growing political pressure to reduce or eliminate the property tax exemptions for agricultural land in the rural areas of some of the wealthiest counties in the country (Morris, Somerset and Hunterdon). Once this happens, there's a huge financial incentive for someone like Steve Forbes, Woody Johnson or Michael Price to get out of the state.

5 posted on 04/07/2014 1:09:13 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: grundle

You have to be rich to pay New Jersey property taxes, from what I have seen.


6 posted on 04/07/2014 1:13:29 PM PDT by dainbramaged (Don't tell me, I'll tell you.)
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To: grundle

NJ used to extort income tax money from “passing through” trucking companies. (talk about violating interstate commerce)

NJ is toxic stupid. Why the sock exchanges placed their computers there is beyond stupid.


7 posted on 04/07/2014 1:15:10 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Alberta's Child

I don’t see why citizens do not pass referenda outlawing state income taxes.


8 posted on 04/07/2014 1:19:01 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: grundle

Welcome to Florida.
Leave your voting patterns at the state line.................................


9 posted on 04/07/2014 1:24:02 PM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: longtermmemmory

They exchange socks in New Jersey?.............................eeeewwwwww!......................


10 posted on 04/07/2014 1:24:44 PM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: longtermmemmory
Probably because the income taxes start out so small compared to all of the other taxes you pay.

For most income brackets New Jersey doesn't really have an income tax problem. I believe the state income tax rates are lower than all of the neighboring states, except in the very highest bracket.

11 posted on 04/07/2014 1:29:03 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I've never seen such a conclave of minstrels in my life.")
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To: Alberta's Child

“The bigger problem New Jersey faces is that a lot of their professional class is moving to places like Virginia, North Carolina and Texas. These moves are driven mainly by relocations of employers, which is a very big problem in the long term.”

Guilty. I fled as soon as I was able to work remotely.


12 posted on 04/07/2014 1:38:31 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
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To: grundle
Unfortunately, as soon as they relocate to the states with lower taxes, they vote for candidates who support higher taxes

I hear that a lot around here (Union County, NC), and on this forum. I respectfully disagree.

It might seem logical that an influx of people from blue states would move our politics to the left, but you have to remember that we aren't getting a cross-section of the populations of New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, etc. Rather, we are getting a largely self-selected group who decides to move because they can. Retirees, entrepreneurs, and corporate transfers.

I cite as evidence the fact that the most rapidly growing counties in North Carolina, including Union (Charlotte suburbs); Johnston (Raleigh suburbs); Brunswick, Carteret, Dare (coastal resort areas); and Moore (Pinehurst/Southern Pines) have been trending Republican rather strongly. And much of the growth of these counties is fueled by transplants from "Up North."

The election figures are pretty clear. One example: Reagan in 1980 and Romney in 2012 narrowly carried North Carolina, by almost identical margins (about 2%). But in Union County, Carter beat Reagan in 1980, 10,073 (51.2%) to 9,012 (45.8%); whereas in 2012, Romney carried the county 61,107 (64.5%) to 32,473 (34.3%). Note both the incredible increase in the total vote, and in the strong Republican trend.

NC's central cities are trending Democratic, and black turnout in particular has surged, so the last two Presidential races have been close here. On the other hand, the Republicans (and, by and large, the conservative wing thereof) has taken firm control of the State Senate and State House. If NC is becoming a purple state, it isn't because of our transplants.

13 posted on 04/07/2014 1:41:55 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina ("The power to tax is the power to destroy." -- Chief Justice John Marshall, 1819)
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To: grundle

Should be a requirement when moving from a stupid state to a Conservative state: Leave tour politics where you came from.

And you are NEVER allowed to utter the phrase: “the way we did it back home”


14 posted on 04/07/2014 1:54:45 PM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners. And to the NSA trolls, FU)
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To: southernnorthcarolina
It might seem logical that an influx of people from blue states would move our politics to the left...

What do you say about Virginia, which once was a totally red state? Now with the influx of outsiders into northern Virginia, we have two Rat senators and a Rat governor and lieutenant governor. Were it not for being locally elected, the legislature would be in their hands...and may still be in the future as more of the disease comes into the state from the north.

15 posted on 04/07/2014 2:22:51 PM PDT by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: OldPossum
What do you say about Virginia, which once was a totally red state?

What I would say about Virginia is that Federal Government employees, and employees of nominally private government contractors, are a whole different case from employees of truly private companies, and entrepreneurs, and retirees. My view is that the transplants to Virginia (whether from the northern U.S. or elsewhere) are not particularly representative of transplants to other southern states.

The election numbers don't lie. In NC, the areas which are growing fastest, and seeing the biggest influx of northerners, are Republican, and becoming more so. Now, I would concede, based on observation only as opposed to election results, that the new arrivals here may have a tinge of RINOism, especially on social issues. But don't try to raise their taxes, reassign their kids to other schools in the name of racial balance, take away their guns, or stop voter-ID laws.

16 posted on 04/07/2014 3:20:08 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina ("The power to tax is the power to destroy." -- Chief Justice John Marshall, 1819)
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To: southernnorthcarolina

You have a point in that those moving into northern Virginia likely are not typical of transplants moving into other southern states from other regions in that the former are drawn there by the Washington money dispensary. You obviously have been following these demographic trends much more than I have and I appreciate your insights. Good reply, sir.


17 posted on 04/07/2014 4:14:07 PM PDT by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: southernnorthcarolina

I do think that a lot of people here are looking at states like Montana, Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico. Once reliable red states, but now purple (at best). And that is all due to morals-challenged people from California moving there and saying, to the effect: “Wow, it’s so beautiful here, we need to preserve it.” And we ALL know which party will fill that need...


18 posted on 04/07/2014 4:39:05 PM PDT by BobL
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To: southernnorthcarolina
What I would say about Virginia is that Federal Government employees, and employees of nominally private government contractors, are a whole different case from employees of truly private companies, and entrepreneurs, and retirees.

I take issue with this, in part. I am an executive in the defense industry and know the workforce well, at least in the Defense industry. Many are former and retired military members and wherever they live, they tend to help paint their communities red. Of course, other departments such as HHS, DHS, HUD are quite the opposite, but they don't have the budgets to support large numbers of contractors. I think that the government contractor workforce, on balance, votes on the right side of the ledger.

However, when you are one level removed, to the services and infrastructure that supports government spending, I think the opposite effect is in force. Here, the weight and abundance of the federal dollar tilts the balance to Big Government fans. Either directly or indirectly they see the advantage and vote for Democrats. Virginia is becoming a vassal state

19 posted on 04/07/2014 4:51:04 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: southernnorthcarolina

I don’t know if you are correct with your observations, but it’s certainly is refreshing to hear someone argue the issue from the upbeat side you have chosen.


20 posted on 04/07/2014 6:40:27 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Want to keep your doctor? Remove your Democrat Senator.)
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To: Balding_Eagle
I don’t know if you are correct with your observations, but it’s certainly is refreshing to hear someone argue the issue from the upbeat side you have chosen.

Well, thanks. I don't want to come across as blindly optimistic, either with regard to the nation as a whole or with regard to my state, but I just don't accept the meme that "the blue state Yankees are moving to the South, and turning our states blue, too." At least in North Carolina, voting statistics do not support that theory.

This is not to say that everything is rosy for Republicans in NC. At least since 1988, the Republican Presidential candidate has run stronger in NC than in the nation as a whole -- by 9% in 1988, 6% in 1992, 14% in 1996, 13% in 2000, 10% in 2004, 7% in 2008, and 6% in 2012. Some attribute the recent downward drift to, as Aunt Pittypat would have said, "Yankees in North Carolina!" I do not agree. The reason for the falloff is, in predominate part, the fact that President Obama is black; as such, he elicited a huge surge in black turnout.

The state's two largest counties, Mecklenburg and Wake, are indeed trending in the Democratic direction. Charlotte is not yet Detroit South, nor even close to it, but is becoming a blue city surrounded by red suburbs, just like dozens of metro areas nationwide. The suburban/exurban counties, in addition to the resort-heavy counties along the coast, in the Sandhills, and in the mountains, are growing rapidly, and trending strongly in the Republican direction -- all, to continue the theme, areas of "Yankee infiltration."

21 posted on 04/07/2014 8:44:05 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina ("The power to tax is the power to destroy." -- Chief Justice John Marshall, 1819)
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To: Alberta's Child
For most income brackets New Jersey doesn't really have an income tax problem. I believe the state income tax rates are lower than all of the neighboring states, except in the very highest bracket.

New Jersey's income tax might be a little lower than the New York City's combined rates but definitely higher then Pennsylvania's 3.07% -- it's nearly three times the tax on those "one percenters" -- 8.98% -- that they are chasing away. Delaware's income taxes are lower, too, although not by that much.

The state has income tax rates comparable to North Carolina, but New Jersey also has a high sales tax, astronomically high property taxes and a fairly hefty death tax. (I also believe it's the only state that one needs to pay a toll to leave when traveling either east or west. Many say it's well worth it to get out, tho.)

22 posted on 04/07/2014 9:37:20 PM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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