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Social Security, Treasury target taxpayers for their parentsí decades-old debts
Washington Post | 4.10.13 | Marc Fisher

Posted on 04/11/2014 12:34:11 AM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines

The Washington Post reports that hundreds of thousands of taxpayers who are expecting refunds this month are instead getting letters informing them that because of a debt they never knew about — often a debt incurred by their parents — the government has confiscated their check.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/social-security-treasury-target-hundreds-of-thousands-of-taxpayers-for-parents-old-debts/2014/04/10/74ac8eae-bf4d-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html?tid=HP_more


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: adultchildren; debts; irs; irsscandals; irsshakedown; parentsdebts; socialsecurity; ssa; taxrefunds
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Wait until they bill us our parents' social security, Medicaid and ObamaCare benefits...
1 posted on 04/11/2014 12:34:11 AM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

The IRS has put those new 16,000 employees to work digging around in old records for greedy government redistribution.


2 posted on 04/11/2014 12:42:30 AM PDT by raisincane (I'm a resident of Realville.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Here’s a clickable link http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/social-security-treasury-target-hundreds-of-thousands-of-taxpayers-for-parents-old-debts/2014/04/10/74ac8eae-bf4d-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html?tid=HP_more


3 posted on 04/11/2014 12:45:02 AM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Not that legal has anything to do with this bunch, but how can they even do that?


4 posted on 04/11/2014 12:50:51 AM PDT by stevem
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

insanity.


5 posted on 04/11/2014 12:57:28 AM PDT by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

the govt is not your friend


6 posted on 04/11/2014 1:30:22 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: stevem
...but how can they even do that?

Seems to me that this is just the next step. When they started with the confiscation laws in the '80's, the supreme court ruled that it was constitutional to seize people's property without due process. The burden of proof was shifted to the citizen, who has to prove that his property wasn't used for a crime, rather than the government proving that the property was used for crime.

The news article wasn't real clear, but it did seem to indicate that the appeals process is similar here. It's up to the citizen to prove that the debt isn't owed.

Also interesting is that the lady profiled had her entire refund of $4400 seized, even though her "debt" was only $2900.

7 posted on 04/11/2014 1:33:24 AM PDT by j. earl carter
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To: j. earl carter; stevem

Don’t give them your money. Toward the end of the year change your withholding to zero out your tax. Why make the G a free loan in the first place?

Withholding was Milton Friedman’s sin, luckily he atoned.


8 posted on 04/11/2014 1:53:31 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
The aggressive effort to collect old debts started three years ago — the result of a single sentence tucked into the farm bill lifting the 10-year statute of limitations on old debts to Uncle Sam.

The GOP will miss another grand opportunity to practice conservative populism. How many readymade issues must these dolts miss?

9 posted on 04/11/2014 1:55:26 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

If it was in the farm bill, lots of Republicans must have voted for it.


10 posted on 04/11/2014 2:01:39 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 1010RD

The GOP is a black hole that consumes all political cash and stifles grassroot republicans for the sole purpose of electing the next set of bureaucrats. Grassroots volunteers have to lie to the average voter to garner votes. How can you explain the relevance of the Constitution today when all they hear is that illegal immigration is an act of love.


11 posted on 04/11/2014 2:04:52 AM PDT by x_plus_one (Islam Delenda Est)
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To: 9YearLurker

I know, but you have a double attack:

1. simplify the bill and pull out all the welfare in it; plus

2. Kill this collection process. (the article claims they’ll be done collecting by end of summer, so you also get to embarrass Reid and his Senate Dems. We need to kill them all the way - image a 60 vote GOP majority!)

I’d go after it hard, right now, all day long. This is obnoxious. They let billions get wasted and go after people like this?

It’s another readymade conservative populist issue. I’d have this black lady up to Congress for hearings next week.


12 posted on 04/11/2014 2:06:25 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: x_plus_one

Nonsense and exaggeration. The GOP is a solid improvement over any Dem. We need to think Generationally. America isn’t a monolithic whole and it never was. Why do so few FReepers understand the political history of the country or the current state of affairs?


13 posted on 04/11/2014 2:10:23 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

Ping


14 posted on 04/11/2014 2:20:43 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them!)
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To: 1010RD

I don’t think you answered my question, but I do think changing your withholding towards the end of the year is a fantastic idea. I didn’t think of that. So simple and perfect.


15 posted on 04/11/2014 2:23:54 AM PDT by j. earl carter
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Bump


16 posted on 04/11/2014 2:31:04 AM PDT by lowbridge
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

If this was being done by a responsible, fiscally solvent, constitutionally restricted government, I would have no real qualms about it. Would it suck? Sure, but it would be responsible caretakers straightening out past debt not this bunch of adolescents with no-limit credit cards.


17 posted on 04/11/2014 2:32:07 AM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
“We have an obligation to current and future Social Security beneficiaries to attempt to recoup money that people received when it was not due.”

Isn't there a counter-law somewhere that says children are not responsible for their deceased parents' debts?

18 posted on 04/11/2014 2:35:54 AM PDT by blueplum
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To: 1010RD
The GOP is a solid improvement over any Dem.

No question. I don't have to like them 100% to know that an (R) majority, HELD TO ACCOUNT for fiscal responsibility is far, far preferable to anything (D)Marxist.

To those that say they will sit at home and pout on election day, if their preferred Conservative is not running?

You're stupid.
19 posted on 04/11/2014 2:36:47 AM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

At first I read this and was outraged, but it might and can be used as a good lesson to make sure you take care of your own.

Remember the old saying/cliché: “Charity starts at home.”

Right now the government is in the charity business and those that do not take care of the home front are in fact standing before the government with their hands out.

The 0bamacare law includes a section on confiscation if one takes on Medicaid.

The government’s welfare system is not a charity system. If one let’s the village take care of the family, then the village owns all that you have; because the village bought and paid for all you have.

Charity starts at home and take care of your business.


20 posted on 04/11/2014 2:37:19 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: 1010RD

Maybe when President Reagan was president and when Newt Gingrich was majority leader.


21 posted on 04/11/2014 2:45:21 AM PDT by RginTN
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To: 1010RD; x_plus_one
The GOP is a black hole that consumes all political cash and stifles grassroot republicans for the sole purpose of electing the next set of bureaucrats. Grassroots volunteers have to lie to the average voter to garner votes. How can you explain the relevance of the Constitution today when all they hear is that illegal immigration is an act of love.

Nonsense and exaggeration. The GOP is a solid improvement over any Dem.

A few, yes. As a whole? No way.

We need to think Generationally.

What does that mean? Generationally America has slid further and further to the left. Even the so-called GOP has sidled left to cozy up to the populism of, well, populism.

America isn’t a monolithic whole and it never was.

True, but every bureaucrat exists to one end: To feed themselves at the expense of the taxpayer. Until we can utterly dismantle the bureaucracy known as "Uncle Sam" it will not change. Obama, and to some extent Bush, fed and watered that monolith with so many agencies and sub agencies that more than likely one of your neighbors, if not more, rely on the federal govt. for their existence. How do we convince them to vote to end that?

Why do so few FReepers understand the political history of the country or the current state of affairs?

Why do so many FReepers still believe an "R" automatically connotes someone that is on their side in the belly of the bureaucracy?

22 posted on 04/11/2014 2:47:06 AM PDT by raybbr (Obamacare needs a death panel.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

The government can legally claw back an overpayment. The only way it used to be possible to stop them was when you died. Now they can go after your heirs. Its despicable.


23 posted on 04/11/2014 2:48:43 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: stevem

They removed the statue of limitations on debt older than 10 years in the farm bill.

I would like to know WHO exactly, put it in the farm bill and a list of everyone that voted for it.

This is why they like to pass bills before anyone gets to read them.


24 posted on 04/11/2014 2:50:50 AM PDT by MagnoliaB
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To: goldstategop

Oddly the more I am considering this, it is hardly despicable.

With all those who currently abuse the welfare systems we have in place, do we not often desire some sort of repayment?

What is concerning though is the lack of due process. And how it appears to be a slap-shod way of contacting the debtors. (Using the old addresses?)

The other item that comes to mind for THIS generation is what if that old SS# is being used to commit identity theft to collect undeserved benefits? Can you imagine losing your entire home because some illegal alien collected benefits on your parent’s SS#?

The stories presented appear to have some sort of legit basis, but I suspect in time if the Treasury continues to pursue these matters without due process and due diligence, this could become a real boondoggle.


25 posted on 04/11/2014 3:01:55 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: 1010RD

Every one of them, friend. They couldn’t find a populist conservative issue if it jumped up and bit them. Unless, of course, they are in cahoots with the government.


26 posted on 04/11/2014 3:03:08 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: 98ZJ USMC

Except that in most cases a governmental entity, i.e. probate court, with the force of law, reviewed and settled those estates. If another governmental entity such as the IRS, has a late claim, it’s should be with the probate court, not the descendents of the supposed debtor. I am subject to IRS imposed deadlines. Why should the IRS not be held to court imposed deadlines?


27 posted on 04/11/2014 3:03:12 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (When I first read it, " Atlas Shrugged" was fiction)
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To: MagnoliaB

Congresscritters pass laws they don’t even read.

Now the government can collect your long-dead grandpa’s debt from you even if you don’t know he had one.

Its insane. And Congress wonders why its held in such low esteem by the American people.

Due to abusive laws like this one! Go figure.


28 posted on 04/11/2014 3:05:18 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: 1010RD

Yeah, but it’s hard for the same guys who voted for something to then campaign against it.

I agree it should be repealed—but I think a lot of incumbents are in a position where they can’t campaign against it.

Also, there are bigger issues that affect more people—Obamacare, the economy—that make for a better message.


29 posted on 04/11/2014 3:13:38 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: goldstategop
The government can legally claw back an overpayment.

Must fall under the sins of the father statute.

30 posted on 04/11/2014 3:17:01 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine's brother ("When leftists don’t get their way, they start shooting people and bombing buildings." - rr)
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To: goldstategop

Especially since they tell us we don’t have to save more than 7 years of records unless you commit fraud and then you’re suppose to keep them indefinitely. I guess they consider this fraud.


31 posted on 04/11/2014 3:20:59 AM PDT by MagnoliaB
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To: goldstategop
Now the government can collect your long-dead grandpa’s debt from you even if you don’t know he had one.

Worse than that if they schmucks got the wrong person OR A STOLLEN IDENITY ETC by a cheat you've got to prove someone else wasn't your grandpa AFTER your money has been taken. I think some of the Yippie this is a swell idea crowd best think this through real good. The woman in the article was a four year old kid when this took place.

We have due process of law in this nation for a reason or rather we used too. If they can do this then they darn well can make any darn debt up they please for you to pay under these rules or worse your kids after you are dead and gone and they can't ask you about it.

I'm certain the needed records to prove ones side of this are very easy to obtain from the very agency perusing illicit payment Cough Cough.

32 posted on 04/11/2014 3:29:21 AM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Due process has become a joke, apparently.


33 posted on 04/11/2014 3:33:40 AM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be earned and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Now if I were posting on that site, I would flame them by asking why “deadbeats” should be let off. LOL.

Anyway, seriously, if a person has a relatively steady income, such as a 40 hour job, there is NO REASON to ever get a refund. You simply need to up your withholding allowances to the point where you owe the gov. money at tax time, rather than vice versa. In my case, I take several “snapshots” over each year (on a spreadsheet, to make it easier), where I basically fill out my tax form, projecting what my future income will be. You want to get within 10% of tax owed or $1000 (whichever is higher) to avoid any penalties - but even the penalties aren’t that bad. Just stay below what’s owed, and that is done by tweaking withholding allowances.

It doesn’t always work, things can change (job situation, tax laws), and it would be much tougher for a 1099 estimator to get it right - but most people can do it, if they take a little time during the calendar year.

The IRS has a much easier time blocking refunds than they do using other methods, and probably a lot less push back, since the money never reaches the person. They can dip into your checking account, but there’s a much higher PR price to pay if they start doing that in what looks like an arbitrary manner.


34 posted on 04/11/2014 3:36:41 AM PDT by BobL
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To: blueplum

“Isn’t there a counter-law somewhere that says children are not responsible for their deceased parents’ debts?”

I’d imagine they target the beneficiaries of the estate (they got the parents’ money, so they’ll pay).


35 posted on 04/11/2014 3:37:15 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: stevem

The Supreme Court has already ruled that there is no right to Social Security, so yeah, by their twisted logic, they can.


36 posted on 04/11/2014 3:37:55 AM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be earned and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: RWB Patriot

Public benefits belong to the taxpayers at large. They are “common property.” And are not legally yours to keep. If you are no longer eligible to receive them, you must pay them back to the government.


37 posted on 04/11/2014 3:46:10 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

From the article:
“....The aggressive effort to collect old debts started three years ago — the result of a single sentence tucked into the farm bill lifting the 10-year statute of limitations on old debts to Uncle Sam....”

Three years ago? John Boehner became Speaker in Jan 2011. Damned GOP, I thought until I looked at the bill.


“LEGISLATIVE HISTORY—H.R. 6124 (S. 2302):

SENATE REPORTS: No. 110-220 accompanying S. 2302 (Comm. on Agriculture,
Nutrition, and Forestry).
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, Vol. 154 (2008):
May 22, considered and passed House.
June 5, considered and passed Senate.
WEEKLY COMPILATION OF PRESIDENTIAL DOCUMENTS, Vol. 44 (2008):
June 18, Presidential veto message.
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, Vol. 154 (2008):
June 18, House and Senate overrode veto.


The bill is from 2008, not 2011. Six years, not three years.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi

Now why would the WaPo want us to think this was a GOP bill?


38 posted on 04/11/2014 3:47:04 AM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: kearnyirish2

They go after the eldest child first.


39 posted on 04/11/2014 3:49:43 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: All

Since both my folks died before they could collect any SS benefits, will I get a check for their contribution now?


40 posted on 04/11/2014 3:53:13 AM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To win the country back, we need to be as mean as the libs say we are.)
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To: EBH

Do they at least have to show a wealth transfer between the deceased and the offspring?


41 posted on 04/11/2014 3:56:28 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: j. earl carter
Seems to me that this is just the next step. When they started with the confiscation laws in the '80's, the supreme court ruled that it was constitutional to seize people's property without due process. The burden of proof was shifted to the citizen, who has to prove that his property wasn't used for a crime, rather than the government proving that the property was used for crime.

That was for The Drug War. And oh how The People cheered.

42 posted on 04/11/2014 3:57:50 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: kearnyirish2

Nope.


43 posted on 04/11/2014 4:03:54 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: yldstrk
the govt is not your friend
_______________________________________
That statement needs to be put forth to every low information voter. Avoid government entanglement at all cost. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obumacare and any other government sponsored program is just another way of turning Americans into slaves for the state. Their statist view is that they own you, you work for them, and they will make you do what they want whether you want to or not. None of those 'social' programs are voluntary. If they were they would not survive.
44 posted on 04/11/2014 4:17:12 AM PDT by iontheball
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To: stevem

Every day I find a new reason to hate this administration more. I don’t want to hear anyone complain how Putin is a thug. He is a saint compared to Obama and his cronies.


45 posted on 04/11/2014 4:17:26 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: 9YearLurker

Does anyone in congress ever actually read a bill before voting for it???


46 posted on 04/11/2014 4:18:42 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: ilovesarah2012

Nope. As Nancy famously said, “you can find out what’s in it after we pass it.”


47 posted on 04/11/2014 4:20:17 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

The IRS code name for the operation is “Takmydat”


48 posted on 04/11/2014 4:22:04 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: goldstategop

Impeach them all for not doing their jobs. What do they get paid for???


49 posted on 04/11/2014 4:27:05 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: cva66snipe
Quote from article: Grice was also told there was little point in seeking a waiver of her debt. Collections can only be halted if the person passes two tests, Clark said: The taxpayer must prove that he “is without fault, and [that] repayment of the overpayment would deprive the person of income needed for ordinary living expenses.”
_________________________________________________
Note that when you are confronted by the IRS, the burden is on you to prove your innocence, not the other way around. It can only be called treacherous tyranny.
50 posted on 04/11/2014 4:31:47 AM PDT by iontheball
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