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Kiev backpedals on referendums after deadline to stop protest expires
RT ^ | 4-112014 | RT

Posted on 04/11/2014 9:32:51 AM PDT by tcrlaf

Just after a deadline set by Kiev for protesters in eastern Ukraine to vacate seized buildings expired, Parliament-appointed PM Arseny Yatsenyuk pledged to push through a law allowing regional referendums in the country.

Holding referendums on the status of their respective regions was among the main demands posed by anti-Maidan activists, who have taken over a number of governmental buildings in eastern Ukraine this week.

Ukrainian law currently does not allow regions to hold referendums separately from the rest of the country. It was one of the main arguments Kiev voiced in declaring illegal last month’s referendum in Crimea, which ended with the peninsula’s seceding from Ukraine and joining Russia.

Speaking in Donetsk, one of the regions engulfed by the anti-Kiev protests, Yatsenyuk said his government wants greater autonomy for Ukrainian regions, including the abolition of the offices of capital-appointed governors.

He was speaking just as a 48-hour deadline, which Kiev gave to protesters to liberate the seized buildings, expired. Previously the central authorities threatened to use force, including that of the military and even threatened their opponents as terrorists, unless they withdrew from the buildings.

(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: crimea; donetsk; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; ukraine
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Before the Usual Suspects come along and start screaming "PROPOGANDA!", there have been reports circulating on Twitter that the Ukrainian Special Forces were ordered by Kiev to Storm the building in Donetsk, and flat-out refused the order.

This confirms it: "The U-turn comes after Ukraine’s elite Alpha unit reportedly refused to obey an order to besiege protester-held buildings. At a session of law enforcement officials in Donetsk, one of the Alpha commanders said that he and his men are a force intended for rescuing hostages and fighting terrorism and will only act in accordance with the law, local media reported. "

1 posted on 04/11/2014 9:32:51 AM PDT by tcrlaf
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To: tcrlaf

Ukraine is only half a country. Yes, the international community gave it borders, but like Iraq, it was an agglomeration of different peoples and regions, with different cultural attachments. They had 20 years to build their identity, independence and strength, but its “leaders” spent the time looting the country. It seems the so-called Ukraine military isn’t even able to know when it should fight.


2 posted on 04/11/2014 9:38:17 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: tcrlaf
"This confirms it...."
"The unconfirmed act of defiance...."

Looks like the propaganda is yours.

3 posted on 04/11/2014 9:39:55 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

I think we will learn that there has been nothing but propaganda coming out of that area. And not all of it from Russia.

I am always entertained by how one min, people curse the MSM as frauds with their dying breaths, but suddenly, eat up everything they are shoveling when it fits their preconceived ideas.


4 posted on 04/11/2014 9:42:43 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: 1rudeboy

The dealine passed. The building wasn’t stormed. The police commander is ON TAPE saying he also refused to attack.

How do you counter that?


5 posted on 04/11/2014 9:45:39 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf

“The unconfirmed act of defiance...” is RT’s choice of words, not mine.


6 posted on 04/11/2014 9:46:46 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: PGR88

“but like Iraq, it was an agglomeration of different peoples and regions, with different cultural attachments.”

During the Soviet years, Ukraine was “given” more territory to control than they had during the tsarist times, to help keep them pacified.


7 posted on 04/11/2014 9:47:37 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Norm Lenhart

“I think we will learn that there has been nothing but propaganda coming out of that area. And not all of it from Russia.”

Agreed, but more importantly, it seems, is that the coup government in Kiev is making grand pronouncements, that the people in the field are simply ignoring. They made a big deal out of the 48 hour deadline, only to have Yat-whatever fold, and offer big concessions, when his military refused to cooperate.


8 posted on 04/11/2014 9:50:43 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Norm Lenhart
I am always entertained by how one min, people curse the MSM as frauds with their dying breaths, but suddenly, eat up everything they are shoveling when it fits their preconceived ideas.

Excellent observation.

9 posted on 04/11/2014 9:55:53 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: tcrlaf

It seems to me in all this there are a significant number on both sides and a big chunk WANT to go back to Russia/reject the EU.

The media push is all “Evil Empire!” but if this was “Solely” outsider Russia trying to recoup lost land, why is it that there are so many within said land cool with it?

On the other hand, There are plenty who want the EU/western whatever. But it seems like the Ukrainians are not fully ready to go civil war over it.

The best thing for us to do is stay the hell out of their affairs. But I suspect ‘we’ had a lot to do with the issue to begin with.


10 posted on 04/11/2014 9:56:58 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Navy Patriot

It should work both ways, but for the Russians, it apparently doesn’t.


11 posted on 04/11/2014 9:57:14 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf
rescuing hostages and fighting terrorism is what needs to be done with occupied buildings. Somehow I doubt that any commander can refuse lawful orders and not face consequences. On the other hand, RT consistently lies. I call BS. As usual.
12 posted on 04/11/2014 9:59:36 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: Norm Lenhart

“But I suspect ‘we’ had a lot to do with the issue to begin with.”

Yep...
After the Syria embarrassment, they saw the already existing unrest in Ukraine as the way to “get back” at Putin, and poured tons of money into Right-Sector and the OS NGO’s to destabilize it. There are State Department people on caught on tape talking about it.

Instead of making it uncomfortable for Putin, they handed him a golden opportunity on a silver platter.


13 posted on 04/11/2014 10:01:27 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Samogon

” On the other hand, RT consistently lies. I call BS. As usual.”

Most likely..
But, the buildings are still occupied, and the deadline is long past. The initial reports of refusal didn’t come from RT, but from numerous Twitters in the area. RT was about two hours late to the game.

How do you resolve this?


14 posted on 04/11/2014 10:04:20 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf

Indeed. And that is exactly why all the hyperpatriots armchair quarterbacking this thing on the web look so foolish. Had our lovely State Dept under Obama leadership, with backing from the McCain/Grhamm wing of the rinos not stuck our noses where they had no business, the Ukraine situation never would have happened as it did...if at all.


15 posted on 04/11/2014 10:06:23 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: 1rudeboy
It should work both ways, but for the Russians, it apparently doesn’t.

Horse manure, there is plenty of Russian MSM that is unfriendly and critical of Putin while claiming love for Russia.

The American Mainstream Media is far more fawning to Obama in comparison.

Further, the Russian media that goes after Putin are the old time Communist and the current big time Communists, the Russian left, and are closely associated with the Western MSM.

16 posted on 04/11/2014 10:10:16 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
Horse manure, there is plenty of Russian MSM that is unfriendly and critical of Putin while claiming love for Russia.

Maybe you could cite some examples in the original Russian.

17 posted on 04/11/2014 10:15:18 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: tcrlaf

Twitters in the area? Surely reliable source.
One other reason for calling it BS: the same unit liberated SBU office in Lugansk just a couple of days ago. Plus there are lots of other special purpose units ready for the task.
The only reason that the buildings are not stormed yet is that there is still a chance to end this peacefully. Terrorists are even offered amnesty if they lay down weapons and leave.
As much as I would love to see the terrorists be made an example of, peace beats war in Ukrainian officials’ minds.


18 posted on 04/11/2014 10:16:56 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: tcrlaf

Its a positive step in the right direction. Kiev is finally realizing the country needs to move in the direction of federalism - with full autonomy for ALL the country’s regions, guarantees of language equality and full guarantee of minority rights.

The situation cannot be resolved through the use of force but ultimately through political dialogue. The country is waiting for clear answers from Kiev on these questions. Crimea is already lost but the rest of the country can be preserved. The only way out is if all the ethnic and political forces in Ukraine unite. This is in every one’s interests.


19 posted on 04/11/2014 10:17:58 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: tcrlaf
During the Soviet years, Ukraine was “given” more territory to control than they had during the tsarist times, to help keep them pacified.

It was more symbolic than anything, Moscow still called the shots.

20 posted on 04/11/2014 10:20:26 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: PGR88
Ukraine is only half a country. Yes, the international community gave it borders, but like Iraq, it was an agglomeration of different peoples and regions, with different cultural attachments.

Compared to most countries the "peoples" (barf) of Ukraine are pretty homologous.


21 posted on 04/11/2014 10:20:55 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: goldstategop

Yugoslavia had Federalism as well, it didn’t save it.


22 posted on 04/11/2014 10:22:01 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Norm Lenhart
Had our lovely State Dept under Obama leadership, with backing from the McCain/Grhamm wing of the rinos not stuck our noses where they had no business, the Ukraine situation never would have happened as it did...if at all.

Obama has done very little in Ukraine.

This is really not about Obama.

23 posted on 04/11/2014 10:22:54 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

You should do some reading about the State Dept actions over there leading up to this. They are far from innocent bystanders and Berry calls their shots.

I don’t like it either, what happens in our name. But it does indeed happen.


24 posted on 04/11/2014 10:24:53 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: tcrlaf

Are you sure they’re not just using the tweets as the basis of their report?


25 posted on 04/11/2014 10:30:17 AM PDT by Natufian (t)
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To: Norm Lenhart
Obama and his guy Yats are in it to give Russia what they want.

You should do some reading on what Obama and Yats are doing.

26 posted on 04/11/2014 10:31:31 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

I have. they are doing what they always do. Play both sides for personal benefit. Or Liberal benefit.


27 posted on 04/11/2014 10:33:33 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Navy Patriot

That’s not my point. When someone points out that RT is Russian state-owned propaganda, the response by the Borscht Brigade is that “it’s important to hear both sides (paraphrasing),” and “anyway, but MSNBC. But when someone posts something from MSNBC, you never hear “it’s important to hear both sides,” and “but Russia Today.”


28 posted on 04/11/2014 10:38:36 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf
"RT ^ | 4-112014 | RT
Posted on April 11, 2014 10:32:51 AM MDT by tcrlaf
"

Wikipedia
Rossiya Segodnya (official name: Federal State Unitary Enterprise International Information Agency Rossiya Segodnya; from Russian: Россия Сегодня, Russia Today) is the official Russian government owned international news agency founded by presidential decree on 9 December 2013. Rossiya Segodnya incorporates the former RIA Novosti news service and the Voice of Russia international radio service (formerly Radio Moscow).

Why Russia should sell weapons to Iran and Syria
RIA Novosti (Russian state-owned outlet) ^ | 08AUG07 |
Marianna Belenkaya, Russian Government
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1878354/posts


29 posted on 04/11/2014 10:39:01 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: tcrlaf
Russia calls for banning Judaism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1431407/posts

Russia probing whether Jewish law constitutes incitement ["first time since Stalin's regime"]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1431367/posts

Russians Respect Reason For Terrorism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210347/posts


30 posted on 04/11/2014 10:42:37 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: 1rudeboy

MSNBC Articles get posted all the time on FR. Do you have ANYTHING at all to add to the basis of the article, other than rants of “Propoganda!”?

Something to counter the points the article makes, perhaps? That is what we do here, after all.


31 posted on 04/11/2014 10:50:24 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf

Sure, reread my comment #3. You ignored it, for all purposes.


32 posted on 04/11/2014 10:52:45 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

List of journalists killed in Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
(scroll down for list of those recently killed—probably not an up-to-date list)


33 posted on 04/11/2014 10:53:50 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Norm Lenhart
Agreed. The New York Times could counter something that RT reported and the usual RINOS and closet McCain supporters/ uber-interventionists (instead of the CORRECT position: neither interventionist nor isolationist) here would side with the NYT or the Washington Compost, MSDNC, See BS, etc.

RT sometimes has gotten it right, and been followed up by some in the MSM - other times not to on the money.

As with many in the media, verification is necessary.

34 posted on 04/11/2014 10:55:31 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: FreeReign

“Obama has done very little in Ukraine. This is really not about Obama.”
VERY incorrect, and there are numerous articles posted on FR about it.

Russia’s primary concern seems to be to delegitimize the US-supported coup government, at any cost.

This isn’t just about Ukraine. There is a much bigger global game being played here.

If you want to know what that is, pay attention to what Lavrov is saying/has said.


35 posted on 04/11/2014 10:58:34 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

It’s pretty sad that an outfit like the NYT can counter the BS that RT reports, if you think about it.


36 posted on 04/11/2014 11:01:01 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Both RT and The Interpreter have been liveblogging events in Ukraine, often with two opposing viewpoints of the same action.

The Interpreter is carrying more Western reaction.

That said, the point of the article was that Ukraine forces refused to follow orders to attack, and that concessions have been offered.

This person can’t seem to discuss anything, just shout about propaganda. As we know, liberals use that argument style extensively.


37 posted on 04/11/2014 11:03:34 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I was in both print and internet media for over a decade and I assure you that the reason they are called “Stories” is that they are mostly fantasies written to fit the agenda of the editor/publisher.

Someone said it on another thread today but I’ll reinforce it. Do not believe anything written including the word “The”. The only hope people have is reading multiple sources and practically divining the truth from the conglomeration.


38 posted on 04/11/2014 11:05:08 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: tcrlaf
This person can’t seem to discuss anything, just shout about propaganda. As we know, liberals use that argument style extensively.

Nicely done. I merely observed that Russia Today used the word "unconfirmed," and you used the word "confirmed." So your propaganda actually is a magnitude worse than theirs.

39 posted on 04/11/2014 11:09:34 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

The NYT to a large degree and definitely MSDNC, etc, are mouthpieces and shills for Obama. Everyone at FR knows this.

If Obama is going to counter Putin on Ukraine then you can count on MSDNC and other media organs to counter RT.


40 posted on 04/11/2014 11:11:47 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Norm Lenhart

“I was in both print and internet media for over a decade and I assure you that the reason they are called stories is that they are mostly fantasies.”

That may be true, but it still falls within the realm of a logically fallacious Appeal to Authority and is mere anecdotal evidence.


41 posted on 04/11/2014 11:14:42 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
If Obama is going to counter Putin on Ukraine then you can count on MSDNC and other media organs to counter RT.

And our Russian posters will whine about it. Putin simply is misunderstood, that's all.

42 posted on 04/11/2014 11:15:35 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

All I can do is go by my real world experience in multiple news/media outlets from local to international. I’m not in Ukraine/Russia so I don’t “Know” what the truth is. But based on what I do know, having witnessed this kind of thing first hand (media manipulation), tells me that people are getting far from unbiased journalism. In are being manipulated rather effectively.


43 posted on 04/11/2014 11:20:26 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: tcrlaf
This isn’t just about Ukraine. There is a much bigger global game being played here.

This. Should. Just. Be. About. Ukraine.

If you want to know what that is, pay attention to what Lavrov is saying/has said.

"Very" incorrect.

44 posted on 04/11/2014 11:26:23 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: tcrlaf
Russia’s primary concern seems to be to delegitimize the US-supported coup government, at any cost.

Very incorrect.

Yanuckovich was impeached. 75% of the Rada voted for it.

45 posted on 04/11/2014 11:28:09 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: 1rudeboy
Putin is a thug. We all agree upon this.

The point is, support neither Putin, not interventionism when it comes to Ukraine -— Nor Svoboda, nor Right Sector.

We are now at the point that any intervention in Ukraine will be largely about the Obama Adm. wanting revenge over Obama getting embarrassed w/ Syria.

Secondly, McCain was the poster boy for intervening in Lybia. Obama says we need to bomb Lybia. McCain goes to Syria and palled around with some Syrian undesirables. Obama says “let's intervene.” Next, McCain is palling around with Tyhanybok. Now Kerry and Obama are trying to stall Putin's objectives in Ukraine.

Obama and McCain are practically hand-in-hand on overseas military matters.

If McCain says yes, you can bet the right answer is no.

Helping Ukraine in ANY way gets us in a mess that we need to stay out of.

We don't need to help in any way - indirectly or directly Svoboda or Right Sector or any other undesirables.

We need to lave Ukraine alone. Let Europe handle this. It is about time they developed a backbone.

46 posted on 04/11/2014 11:29:42 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
If Obama is going to counter Putin on Ukraine then you can count on MSDNC and other media organs to counter RT.

You mention 5 entities. 4 of them march to the beat of the same drummer whereas Ukraine is a nation looking to set its own course.

47 posted on 04/11/2014 11:35:26 AM PDT by No One Special
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To: No One Special
LOL ROTFL. Stop, I'm going to laugh uncontrollably.

...Entities that you paint with a broad brush. They are entities of different natures and ability to affect change.

Ukraine couldn't collectively change one light bulb, yet alone set its own course.

Ukrainian politicians (in order to topple the former structure(s)) had to have the Maidan/Svoboda/Pravy Sektor thugs to act as brown shirts to evoke change. And now that things have changed they are discovering that governing is different than rabble-rousing.

And they needed old-fart John McLame of all people to come in December to add to the rousing...

And they are billions in debt (beyond the $ they owe to Russia for gas supplies. This doesn't count the billions that Russia has poured in in the past to prop up floundering Ukraine.

The nation will split - Europe will rebuild the West - slowly, and Russia will rebuild the East -slowly.

Set their own course.....

Give me a break.

48 posted on 04/11/2014 1:31:27 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: PGR88

The best analogy, albeit far from exact, for the relationship between Russia and the Ukraine is the relationship between the USA and the South.


49 posted on 04/11/2014 2:21:11 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: FreeReign; All
Yanuckovich was impeached. 75% of the Rada voted for it.

That's false...and a good example of western propaganda.

50 posted on 04/11/2014 2:40:49 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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