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Wearily back to the battlefield (Ukraine and Russia)
The Economist (UK) ^ | April 12, 2014

Posted on 04/12/2014 12:51:00 PM PDT by 1rudeboy

The disturbances in eastern Ukraine demonstrate that Russia wants to destabilise the country before next month’s election

PETRO POROSHENKO, the front-runner in Ukraine’s presidential election, due on May 25th, exudes confidence. “There is no uncertainty. Ukraine will have free and fair elections and a strong legitimate president who will bring it closer to Europe. No Russian troops will cross the border.” His words are like psychotherapy. After a revolutionary winter, the overthrow of a president, Viktor Yanukovych, and the annexation of Crimea by Russia, Ukrainians feel fragile and exhausted. They crave respite, peace and normal life. Instead, they are getting provocations, threats of invasion and gas-price rises, and Russian-fuelled separatism. All this is part of what is known as the “Russian spring”. The activity of Russian agents in eastern Ukraine had seemed to be subsiding; separatist rallies were abating. But on April 6th the Russian spring returned spectacularly.

In a carefully co-ordinated action, groups of men, some armed, took over government buildings in Donetsk, Luhansk and Kharkiv, declared the “independence” of eastern Ukrainian republics, demanded referendums and called for Russian assistance. They aped the Maidan protesters in Kiev with barricades made of car tyres and the distribution of food. The theatrics were said to be directed from Moscow with money from Mr Yanukovych and his son, who still control some local mayors in the Donetsk region. Yet there was little popular support, as most people in the east support Ukraine’s sovereignty.

(Excerpt) Read more at economist.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: crimea; putinsbuttboys; russia; ukraine

1 posted on 04/12/2014 12:51:00 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Putin is, was, and always will be KGB. If you cannot clearly see the effects of communism on the world and its history when it is directly in your face, I feel sorry for you.... and sorrier for my country


2 posted on 04/12/2014 12:58:29 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: 1rudeboy

All the Ukrainians need to do is accept the sodomite-loving, sovereign-debt crisis-burdened, “green-energy”-loving, anti-Christian, social-engineer/mad scientist/central banker globalist elites of the EU/US/UK.

It’s not enough that they’re already doing business with them to the tune of billions, they need to get fitted with tax/debt/regulatory chains.

Then the elites will be satisfied.

Well, maybe after a war that kills a few hundred thousand and destroys much of the country.

That will reduce the world’s poplation a bit. Drastically cut Ukraine’s grain exports, raising global grain prices. And allow for perhaps hundreds of billions in new bonds to be floated to “rebuild” Ukraine.

The globalists plan on assimilating Russia into the EU anyway down the road.


3 posted on 04/12/2014 1:10:49 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

It is ironic that the Ukrainians (for the most part) appear to prefer the “sodomite-loving, sovereign-debt crisis-burdened, ‘green-energy’-loving, anti-Christian, social-engineer/mad scientist/central banker globalist elites of the EU/US/UK,” over the alternative— the “Soviet New Man, church-banning, journalist assassinating, KGB-trained, what central bank I don’t have one, globalist elites of Belarus/Kazakhstan/Random Letters-stan.”


4 posted on 04/12/2014 1:18:37 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Nifster
Putin is, was, and always will be KGB. If you cannot clearly see the effects of communism on the world and its history when it is directly in your face, I feel sorry for you.... and sorrier for my country

Why the obsession with Putin? Whether he is the last strongman fighting for the Christian way of life in the face of islamic and atheistic hoards, or whether he is a duplicitous communist tyrant seeking to takeover the world -- we have bigger problems.
We have a godless marxist in the White House, and this same spirit in many of the offices of the Federal Government. And we have this marxist atheistic infestation in our Media, Universities, and Public Schools. We have much bigger problems than ascertaining whether Putin is mineral or vegetable. I am feeling pretty sorry for my Country -- but it has nothing to do with Putin.

5 posted on 04/12/2014 1:22:10 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: El Cid
Why the obsession with Putin? Whether he is the last strongman fighting for the Christian way of life in the face of islamic and atheistic hoards,

Meanwhile, in the Russian military, new soft looking recruits are routinely homosexually raped by their officers as part of their "hazing," which is protected by the regime. The political occult is also very strong in Russia. As for Putin, he is an adulterer, a murderer, and a thief.

Claims to the contrary are part of long term Russian active measures against American conservatives and right wing movements. The Russian Orthodox Church, by the way, is run by the Russian security service and is used to spread Russian influence abroad. They're even attempting to do the same thing with the Muslims, by training Russian Speaking Mullahs and sending them out into the world.

6 posted on 04/12/2014 1:34:02 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Interesting article from the paper that endorsed Obama and thinks Euro-skeptics are just like the tea party and criticize both.

“Ukraine will have free and fair elections”

You mean like last time?

“...and a strong legitimate president who will bring it closer to Europe.”

And as long as the winner is someone the EU approves, maybe there won’t be firebombs in the streets this time.


7 posted on 04/12/2014 1:56:02 PM PDT by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: 1rudeboy

IMHO, it’s not ironic, it’s a simple case of corrupt Ukrainian politicians, corrupt European and American elites running around trying to annex Ukraine, and corrupt Russian elites who know they can’t deal with re-annexing their satellites having extended credit to the wrong deadbeat nation ruled by corrupt politicians.

Why pay the nation’s gas bill when you can funnel money to your internal and external oligarchs and powerful financial interests ?

If Ukraine somehow manages to stay independent, it still behooves their politicians and business leaders to get smart enough to put the Ukrainian people first and thus allow for the per capita net worth of Ukrainians to rise as a result of small business opportunity and extending excellent investment opportunities to the little guy instead of just forcing him to sell his land to the globalists and oligarchs. Then Ukraine might rise above the doldrums of third-world economic conditions.

Biblical morality must come first for any real, lasting economic prosperity to happen, prosperity that is not built on a house of cards.

This whole boondoggle is just consolidation of nations by globalists and it’s going on all over the world. Globalists arrive to “help” with medicine, food engineering, etc., etc., and what they’re really doing is assimilating your nation into Western central banking. This enslaves your population in the polyester chains of cheap labor, debt, population control, funneling US taxpayer grants and loans back to Western corporations through buying their products and services, etc.


8 posted on 04/12/2014 2:15:24 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

They’re doing what the US and UK governments and their globalist masters have been doing for decades.

Saudi/Qatari/etc. intel is working for US intel and thus the US is really supporting its own “terrorists” through some simple proxies. Churches in the US have longstanding relationships with US intel; the CIA is chock full of Mormons. US and UK are the leaders of promoting sodomy the world over. US military is being forced to officially accept sodomy as just another optional personal choice.

We’re a mess.

I’ve been hearing for weeks now about an upcoming war that Russia was starting, but so far, they’re still just waiting for to get paid for their gas.

Russian continues to supply Boeing with almost a third of the titanium it puts in its planes. Most of US companies doing business in Ukraine (hundreds) are also happily doing business in Russia; trade between Russia and the US continues to expand every year.

Victoria Nuland of the US State Department says the US has invested $5 billion in “helping Ukraine realize its European aspirations”. Sounds like new world order doubletalk. In other words, along with private sector efforts like Coca-Cola, Proctor & Gamble, Kentucky Fried Chicke Ukraine, IBM Ukraine, AIG Ukraine, setting up crop insurance, etc., etc., the US State Department has been waging a massive propaganda campaign for years to convince the Ukrainian public that joining the EU will bring unicorns laden with cash to their country, that they love the Ukrainians, and the check is in the mail. Ukrainians farmers sell their land for a pittance, their kids move to the cities to find work, and somehow the unicorns never show up, the globalist is gone in the morning when they wake up without so much as a love note, and the check must have been lost in the mail.


9 posted on 04/12/2014 2:39:18 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
They’re doing what the US and UK governments and their globalist masters have been doing for decades. Saudi/Qatari/etc. intel is working for US intel and thus the US is really supporting its own “terrorists” through some simple proxies. Churches in the US have longstanding relationships with US intel; the CIA is chock full of Mormons. US and UK are the leaders of promoting sodomy the world over. US military is being forced to officially accept sodomy as just another optional personal choice.

There is a strong possibility, in fact, that Al-Qaeda is controlled by Moscow, the historical seat of terrorism around the world. This was the allegation of Alexander Litvinenko, the poor fellow poisoned with Polonium 210 by a fellow who fled back to Russia (and never extradited).

In fact, the anti-communist cold war structures of the United States and Europe have long been dismantled. There is no counter active measures program in the U.S., and much of the U.S. and Europe itself have been undermined by leftists coming from organizations which themselves were KGB fronts long ago.

The idea that we are globalist masters controlling the world's events on strings is simply... wishful thinking. The truth is we are undermined, weak, and ripe for plucking.

10 posted on 04/12/2014 2:43:33 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Al-Qaeda Moscow ? No, Al-Qaeda CIA.

If you’re arguing that point, it tells what you’re all about.

Anyone can read up on this and form their own conclusions.

Even just from the bits and pieces that are allowed to be put up on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA%E2%80%93al-Qaeda_controversy


11 posted on 04/12/2014 3:33:32 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Al-Qaeda Moscow ? No, Al-Qaeda CIA.

Yes, your claim is totally substantiated from what is "allowed" on Wikipedia, of all places. I'll stick with the anti-Communists and martyrs who have died at the hands of Russia's villainy. You can pick the Reds who, by the way, are still supporting communist movements across the world.

12 posted on 04/12/2014 3:38:56 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Nothing I have written is pro-communist.

You keep trying to say that I am pro-communist.

If you are anti-communist, you should be bothered that Boeing buys 1/3 of its titanium from Russia.

You should be bothered that hundreds of American companies are doing business with Russia.

America does business with many communist countries.

Look at the hundreds of billions going to China every year from America.

How can you be anti-communist - and not want trade with communist nations stopped ?

This is nothing new - Boeing on their website, proudly declares that they have done business with Russia since 1972.

America took the first step to normalize relations with communist China in 1972.

The powers that be in America want conservatives to see communism as their enemy, but the powers that be in America have all along been cozy with communists.

I don’t subscribe to communism - for real. I’m not just talking, I really would refuse it completely if it were forced on me. I’d do everything I could to bring the system down.

But right now, we have a dozen aircraft carriers and nuclear subs that I see as being something that no other country even comes close to.

So I don’t see an immediate need for war against anybody.

Well, other than the statism that is increasing inside the American government. And globalist businesses and banks seem to love statism; they happily participate in godless statism every chance they get.

When someone tells me there’s an external national security threat, I stop and think, calm down, and analyze - I want to know if the threat is real, or if our military is being used for some alterior motive.

My family arrived here in the 1630’s, I don’t ever want America to be defeated. But I also don’t want America to be suckered into fighting a war on behalf of a few financial elites, so they can install a puppet government of their liking somewhere.

The US military should not be used for such purposes.


13 posted on 04/12/2014 5:28:33 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Nothing I have written is pro-communist. You keep trying to say that I am pro-communist.

You are writing apologetics for Russia, and regurgitating their propaganda, from a country still under the control of hidden communist structures that were never dismantled, who today is still aiding and abetting communist movements across the world. You are most certainly pro-communist, if not knowingly, then unknowingly.

How can you be anti-communist - and not want trade with communist nations stopped ?

Who says I don't? The Communists in Red China and in Moscow are playing by the same playbook that Lenin did during the NEP years. The communist crab walks backwards. Our money and our way of life is only safe so far as they are still preparing for war. Once they're ready, they won't need our money or our western values anymore, and it will be the time of the "one clenched first," and a new world war. Such is the combined consensus of so many dissidents and defectors from those countries, but, we never hear about them.

14 posted on 04/12/2014 6:17:16 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

You are a gassy little troll aren’t you?


15 posted on 04/12/2014 6:37:09 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck
(Ukraine and Russia), mac_truck wrote: You are a gassy little troll aren’t you?

Says the Putinist celebrating a potential Russian invasion of Ukraine to remove the "radicals" of Kiev on the forum. I weep for my country when there are people as you living in it.

16 posted on 04/12/2014 6:59:58 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
You are most certainly pro-communist, if not knowingly, then unknowingly.

I am not pro-communist, globalist American elites are.

How can you be anti-communist - and not want trade with communist nations stopped ?

Who says I don't?


So you want this trade stopped ? Why haven't the American business leaders, the supreme capitalists of the world - simply cut them off and driven them into bankruptcy - defeating communism forever ?

Instead, they trade with communists and prop them up.

Why should "little people" Americans go fight and die in wars against "communism" - while globalist Americans continue for decades to prop up that same communism ?

Last year the US trade deficit with Russia was almost $16 billion, with China it was about $318 billion - on imports of about $440 billion. The first year the census dept has China figures for is 1985, when we imported about $3,8 billion, and the trade deficit for the year was only $6 million.

Wow, that's one heck of a way to treat our so-called enemies. Not to mention, if we "went to war" with them we would need alternate sources of supply for vital goods like titanium and computers.

If elite business/finance/capitalism WANTED China and Russia to abandon communism, it would have been very easy to squash it FIRST, then start trading.

So if this did not happen, it's because elite business/finance WANTS communism in the countries where it is.
17 posted on 04/12/2014 7:08:59 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
So you want this trade stopped ? Why haven't the American business leaders, the supreme capitalists of the world - simply cut them off and driven them into bankruptcy - defeating communism forever ?

Because we live in a materialistic society where money-power is everything, where all things become subservient to money making, even the church, the arts, the sciences. This is not a new phenomena, we've had this problem for awhile now, slowly growing, and even foreseen. This is why the Founders said that our form of government was for a moral and religious people. Once those supports are gone, once materialism became dominant and made itself the center of the void, society then kills itself. It has no bearings. No vision. It lacks political depth, reducing everything to the checkbook, thinking that wars are won with money-- when, really, wars are won with soldiers, who can then get at plenty of money. Our founders were strong, and the aristocracy of old was strong, because they still had the warrior traditions of Christendom. Now only Russia has them, but they are not Christian traditions, but the traditions of communism, and that means mass murder on a scale never seen before.

18 posted on 04/12/2014 7:24:13 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: El Cid

Read The Perestroika Deception

The commie in the WH is part of a larger commie plan....Putin is NO Christian and thinking that he might be will lead to destruction


19 posted on 04/12/2014 7:25:45 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Nifster; El Cid; All

New Lies for Old is also worth a read, by the same author, and I would check out anything by Trevor Loudon (you can google his blog) and J.R. Nyquist.


20 posted on 04/12/2014 7:35:43 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Thanks for the heads up. I always like a good read


21 posted on 04/12/2014 7:47:05 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

And a double thanks. I thought I had read everything about Angleton and his efforts to keep this country safe but apparently I haven’t. I am a huge fan of (to me)a true American hero


22 posted on 04/12/2014 7:55:07 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Nifster

Nyquist dedicated his book, Origins of the Fourth World War, to Angleton, I highly recommend it.


23 posted on 04/12/2014 8:02:43 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
So you want this trade stopped ? Why haven't the American business leaders, the supreme capitalists of the world - simply cut them off and driven them into bankruptcy - defeating communism forever ?

Because we live in a materialistic society where money-power is everything, where all things become subservient to money making, even the church, the arts, the sciences.


No, you can make MORE money if two RICH nations trade with each other...

than if a BACKWARD SLAVE nation trades with a RICH nation.

If more MONEY was what was motiving globalist capitalists, they would want capitalism EVERYWHERE.
24 posted on 04/12/2014 8:14:57 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
If more MONEY was what was motiving globalist capitalists, they would want capitalism EVERYWHERE.

You assume that those to whom we whore ourselves wish to be rich capitalists. They are content with being poor Communists with a lot of money invested in their military.

25 posted on 04/12/2014 8:55:12 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: 1rudeboy

I think the Ukrainians choose to be Europeans and not Asians.


26 posted on 04/12/2014 9:08:13 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

So you want this trade stopped ? Why haven’t the American business leaders, the supreme capitalists of the world - simply cut them off and driven them into bankruptcy - defeating communism forever ?


27 posted on 04/12/2014 9:15:11 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
So you want this trade stopped ? Why haven’t the American business leaders, the supreme capitalists of the world - simply cut them off and driven them into bankruptcy - defeating communism forever ?

Because they're materialists, as I said, with no political depth, but I'll add that they are also stupid when it comes to human nature, and they assume that their enemies think as they do, in terms of prosperity. Hence, the cold war itself was waged on "who can be more comfortable," which the Commies were never really interested in in the first place.

28 posted on 04/12/2014 10:24:34 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: 1rudeboy; gandalftb; SunkenCiv; Tailgunner Joe; Grzegorz 246; Thunder90

These https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=df92b3Aozog are not locals. This means that Russia technically has invaded another country


29 posted on 04/13/2014 6:10:08 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
So you want this trade stopped ? Why haven’t the American business leaders, the supreme capitalists of the world - simply cut them off and driven them into bankruptcy - defeating communism forever ?

Because they're materialists, as I said, with no political depth, but I'll add that they are also stupid when it comes to human nature, and they assume that their enemies think as they do, in terms of prosperity.


I said before - they would make much MORE if they got rid of communism by starving it out. Once they got rid of it they would make FAR MORE money. But they don't get rid of it. You say they are greedy and want more money. But the fact that they don't economically wipe out communism and replace it with prosperous small business-based societies where MOST people are comfortablely wealthy PROVES that they (the wealthiest elite "capitalists") want communism for countries like China. In place where mostly everyone is wealthy - check out your local wealthy towns - everyone is well off. Even the poor have it good; they're not poor in any real sense of the word, they just perhaps drive American cars and have smaller houses. Money is flowing like water, everyone can get a good paying job, when a company introduces a product they can sell millions of them - because most people in an affluent society have money to burn, and they provide for themselves and have money left over. Charities can easily collect all they need. Life is good. But the problem in this case for the financial elites is simple: they lost control. Far too many people are NOT living paycheck to paycheck. They have businesses, they can take time off to plan a new business, they can pool their money and invest in a larger new business, they have the brains to realize when something like a phone company monopoly is ripping them off, they have the brains to start their own competing phone company, etc. And horrors: affluent people do not need to BORROW; they are not debt slaves. The can afford good accountants and shelter their income from taxes the same way the elites do. They represent the monopolist's worst nightmare: competition & escape from debt slavery, a people that are not controlled by the elites and thus might reduce the elites to just MERE WEALTHY CITIZENS, citizens like everyone else. No more elite, who can dictate every aspect of everyone else's life. Jeremy Bentham's worst nightmare. Perhaps even the drug lord business might get shut down, as the local affluent folks start thinking - why not just shut this down, it's bad for us. Perhaps they'd lose their hold over the advisory roles to Presidents and Prime Ministers. Perhaps the local Congressman could get elected without the backing of the elites, but just the large group of local affluent folks. Perhaps the monopoly of Wall Street and the SEC on capital markets would be broken. Horrors. So the elites need to keep most people poor and stupid, and make sure that there is only a small affluent class that has time to think, and they've turned over all their capital to Wall Street to manage, and then skampered off to live the good life and stopped thinking about everything.

In today's economy, the elite capitalists have managed to get $400 billion American dollars going to COMMUNIST China every year to pay for virtual slave labor, which means that their primary goal all along was instituting virtual slavery of the Chinese po' folk. Companies controlled by elite finance have the work brought to the Chinese, then the finished goods brought back to America and sold for much higher profit margins than would otherwise be possible without Chinese workers working for pennies per day. The Chinese ruling elites and the global financial elites are both very happy about their arrangement.

The ugly fact stares us in the face: American/UK/Euro elite capitalists are slave masters, and they mostly desire to continue investing in closed, communist slave states. International finance DOES invest in them, with debt and equity investing, it's just not covered on the evening news.

Communist states are like an economically "captured" state, where there is NO BUSINESS COMPETITION. That's the "ideal" that elite international capitalist monopolists LOVE. Socialist states, of course, are basically the same thing, except the people were gullible enough fall for the scheme wihout coercive force.

Our financial elite masters can make billions any time they want, that's not the real point. They consider themselves elite - it's the CONTROL of society that they are working towards over the centuries. If, for example, we're making jet engines, in so-called "free market" countries they want to have a highly regulated market, so that only a big company with the resources for expensive compliance would consider getting in the jet engine business. In captured/communist nations, there will only be one buying decision for the whole country, so the jet engine salesman does not have to run around convincing different airplane companies to buy his engines. He just goes to the "minister of transportation" and gets a deal signed. Once you get enough industry consolidation in free markets, and the rest of the world is communist countries, elite capital's worldwide marketshare tends to go to 100% (no small competitors) and the monopolist can then set prices as he wishes, and determine industry standards as he wishes.

The ruling elite in communist countries deals directly with the elite capitalists for all their financing and trade needs, including food, arms, key natural resources, etc. And the elite capitalists always win in the end, and they've been winning for centuries. They hold not only the carrot of finance and trade, but also the stick of being able to use their influence in other nations to start wars and revolutions to replace uncooperative vassals, such as is happening on this thread.

The real rulers of the world, the elite capitalists, therefore have communist countries firmly under their control, with a ruling class of vassals in place to serve as the public face of a government. Also, however, step by step over the centuries, they've been inching the Western "free" nations closer and closer to statism, which is our immediate problem here in America.
30 posted on 04/13/2014 8:41:21 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: AdmSmith

Correct, apart from the “technically” proviso.


31 posted on 04/13/2014 1:54:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

ok,

Military: Turkish jet fighters intercept Russian plane over Black Sea
The IL-20 is a reconnaissance plane designed to carry out military intelligence missions. Turkey has scrambled warplanes several times since last year to intercept IL-20s, although it is not known why the Russian airplanes have been flying close to the Turkish coast, as there has been no statement from Russian authorities.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-344567-military-turkish-jet-fighters-intercept-russian-plane-over-black-sea.html


32 posted on 04/13/2014 2:28:36 PM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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