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Kiev bows to Moscow, devolves near-autonomous powers on restive pro-Russian regions(Russia Won)
Debka File ^ | 04//2/2014 | Debka File

Posted on 04/13/2014 12:53:34 AM PDT by goldstategop

The Ukrainian government has offered sweeping autonomous powers to restive, pro-Moscow regions of the country, in an attempt to hold its head above water against Moscow, without a source of revenue or a viable army. Acting prime minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk told regional leaders and businessmen Friday, April 11, in the eastern town of Donetsk, where pro-Russian separatists have declared a People’s Republic, that he is ready for parliament to consider a law on referendums. The referendum staged by Crimea last month caused the region to join the Russian Federation and practically precipitated the revival of the Cold War. The devolution of power to the regions is a major concession by the pro-Western administration in Kiev to Moscow which, backed by 40,000 troops on Ukraine’s borders, demands recognition of the rights of Russian speakers living in the country’s east and south by means of a federal system.. Yatsenyuk proposed handing “executive committees” in each region, all financial, economic, administration and other powers,’ giving them “the ability to attract investment.” The central government is ready to meet “the legal demands of every resident of the country,” he said. With the separatist movement spreading – Saturday, armed men in camouflage occupied a police building in Slaviansk, 150 km from the Russian border - the provisional government in Kiev met the protesters half-way to avert Ukraine’s breakup into pro-Western European and pro-Russian regions. His only condition was that the regional administrations recognize central government in Kiev. The prime minister did not refer to the Crimean breakaway from Ukraine when he addressed the separatists. It was clear to both sides that the strategic peninsula's annexation to Russia was water under the bridge and any international deal on the future of Ukraine would have to accept it as an accomplished fact and move on. The offer of devolution came six days before the foreign ministers of the US, Russia, the European Union and Ukraine are due to meet in Geneva to discuss how to defuse the world powers’ confrontation over Ukraine. Yatsenyuk’s offer sounded like a trial balloon to show Moscow how far the West was willing to go for an accommodation. The Donetsk protesters turned him down on the spot, but the rules of the game are laid down in Moscow. . Even so, up until the four-way foreign ministers’ meeting in Geneva, local separatist firebrands will increasingly assert their claims in one trouble spot after another by taking over power centers in their regions. Clashes cannot be ruled out with the provisional authorities when they show resistance. DEBKAfile: The provisional Ukrainian government’s offer of near-autonomous powers to the regions is the first backward step to be taken by the US and EU from its confrontation with Moscow since Crimea’s breakaway. Russian troop concentrations on Ukraine’s borders are clearly there to stay, and Moscow has further turned the screw by its “gas sanction” against Ukraine, which is being charged a much higher price for its gas and told to settle payment for past supplies. If Moscow makes good on a threat to cut off Ukraine for non-payment of bills, supplies to the rest of Europe would be disrupted. From the early days of the Ukraine crisis, DEBKAfile’s sources reported that the government set up in Kiev had no chance of survival; nor were its leaders qualified to rule a country of 46 million – and certainly not to stand up to Russian military and economic might. Nevertheless, the Obama administration and NATO officials continued to issue a stream of portentous denunciations against Moscow – and Friday, more Crimean officials were added to the US sanctions list - even though it must be obvious to Washington that the US, Europe and NATO combined are short of the traction – military, economic and political – for forcing Moscow to accept the provisional regime. The billions of dollars they have laid out for propping it up went on a lost cause.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: debkafile; federalism; russia; ukraine
Ukraine has been forced to settle on Moscow's terms. Ukraine will be transformed into a federation - though to save Kiev face, it will not be officially called one but in practice it will function like one.

This is a big win for Moscow and a major defeat for the West.

1 posted on 04/13/2014 12:53:35 AM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop
At the risk of sounding (gasp!) Wilsonian, what's wrong with countenancing the self-determination of peoples?

If the Russian speaking, Russian orthodox church attending, ethnically Russian people of eastern Ukraine are fools enough to submit themselves to a mafia government in Moscow, why should we put ourselves at risk of the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place to save them from their own folly?

In effect, I must concede I am countenancing one man, one vote, one time which I oppose in places like Iraq or Afghanistan-oppose in the sense that I see no connection between pouring American blood and treasure into the sands of those countries and making America secure from terrorism of the pan-Islam movement to dominate the world. And that is the distinction: The acquisition by Russia of eastern Ukraine does not pose a threat to the security of the United States. I do not even believe there is a real historical parallel going back to the 1930s in the era of appeasement.

In sum, when a pan national movement such as communism when it was virulent and aggressive, fascism in the same mode, or Islamism, grab off a piece of turf even, by the consent of its occupants, I say we have to be Ronald Reagan like in our defense posture. But when one man, one vote, one time occurs without substantially increasing the threat to national security, I say we increase our defense forces, accumulate allies, and bide our time.


2 posted on 04/13/2014 1:21:05 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: goldstategop
You remind me of this creep...

http://youtu.be/WvxbvLI-gRU?t=24m43s

3 posted on 04/13/2014 1:24:04 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: nathanbedford

Exactly my view.

Our punishment of Russia hasn’t increased our influence or shown our deterrence.

We all knew how it was going to end... and you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.

A Chicago Community Organizer was outmaneuvered by a KGB spy. They can keep telling themselves in Washington Moscow was taught a lesson.

The facts say different.


4 posted on 04/13/2014 1:29:48 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

You can shoot the messenger.

I am not gloating! We are playing with a weak hand - and bluffing.

If you can refute the report, be my guest. But our hearts, time and money weren’t in this fight and FYI, most Americans don’t care.


5 posted on 04/13/2014 1:32:52 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

http://youtu.be/WvxbvLI-gRU?t=1h17m57s


6 posted on 04/13/2014 1:35:30 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

You don’t need to tell me about good vs. evil.

We lost one and we’ll live to fight where it really matters - and when it does my friend, we’ll be fighting in the same trenches together.


7 posted on 04/13/2014 1:39:17 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Our money is in this fight...big time....big time. Who do you think funds 90% of the EU?


8 posted on 04/13/2014 1:40:24 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

EU? Europe is wealthy enough to defend itself.

They have to live with Russia. We don’t. And that’s a fact that will be obvious long after this crisis over.


9 posted on 04/13/2014 1:42:59 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

We don’t have to live with Russia? How is that possible, even short term?


10 posted on 04/13/2014 1:52:20 AM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: nathanbedford

I see your point, but I doubt if Russia is willing to let these votes occur inside Russia where Russians are not the majority. It’s a tool they want to use to weaken Ukraine; it’s not a sincere concern for the poor Russian speakers.


11 posted on 04/13/2014 2:09:34 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre
Agreed, Vladimir Puritan's regime is a Mafia with no concern for the the the yearnings of any of the peoples of the former Soviet Union.


12 posted on 04/13/2014 2:13:54 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: goldstategop
You may not know this, but Debka isn't always the most reliable website. You'll have to temper your enthusiasm for a little longer. Kiev has not given up yet.

There is, to be sure, a good chance that blood is flowing today. So you can be happy about that.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-ukraine-official-antiterrorist-operation-launched-20140413,0,3694525.story#axzz2ykvpniGW

13 posted on 04/13/2014 2:15:22 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: goldstategop

You are right Ukraine will still be a separate country but a Russian satellite in fact. Smart move by Putin we have no leverage


14 posted on 04/13/2014 3:25:29 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: goldstategop

The EU has over three times the population of Russia and an even bigger lead in money.


15 posted on 04/13/2014 6:09:12 AM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Monmouth78

The EU though has no real military muscle and no way to stand up to Russia.

Today’s debacle in Slaviansk have only underlined the vital importance of Ukraine in Moscow.


16 posted on 04/13/2014 7:43:41 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

This is nothing for us to get ourselves in a twist about.

Right now the we live in the Democratic Socialist States of Amerika. We need to get our Constitutional Republic back before we worry about Russia and the Ukraine.


17 posted on 04/13/2014 8:43:16 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: goldstategop

Seems a likely outcome, but is there a source other than Debka?


18 posted on 04/13/2014 8:47:15 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: goldstategop
This is a big win for Moscow and a major defeat for the West.

I Imagine that in all but a few large cities in the East of Ukraine a vote to join Russia would lose. So will these cities be Russian enclaves within the Federal districts? There choice is either to be part of Europe or Asia.

19 posted on 04/13/2014 9:21:26 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: nathanbedford
At the risk of sounding (gasp!) Wilsonian, what's wrong with countenancing the self-determination of peoples?

The government offices of the Oblasts the Russians want to steal have been captured by Russian troops. What type of self determination does that allow? The Majority Ukrainian populations will be suppressed if not cleansed.

20 posted on 04/13/2014 9:28:14 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Mike Darancette
We were talking Crimea (large majority Russian as opposed to Ukrainian) and Eastern Ukraine, also majority Russian. You are conflating Western Ukraine with its majority Ukrainian population.

Do I believe that 96% of Crimea voted to join Russia? Of course not but I do believe that the majority did. I have no idea how the majority will vote in eastern Ukraine but if they have a fair and honest election which opts for Russia so be it even if it is one man, one vote, one time.


21 posted on 04/13/2014 9:33:26 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford
Eastern Ukraine is not majority ethnic Russian. Don't confuse language with ethnicity. The Ukrainian Language was outlawed by the Russiand and Communists for many years.
22 posted on 04/13/2014 9:53:41 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Mike Darancette

Mike:

I do not pretend to be an expert on the ethnic breakdown of Ukraine, I am merely reacting to what I have seen. This map from the Washington Post tells a somewhat different story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/12/09/this-one-map-helps-explain-ukraines-protests/


23 posted on 04/13/2014 10:28:13 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Your links are like the Maidanheads. Nonfunctional.


24 posted on 04/13/2014 10:49:50 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: Psalm 144
Your links are like the Maidanheads. Nonfunctional.
Actually, my links are functional. Content at the links is an entirely different matter.
25 posted on 04/13/2014 11:28:46 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

I understand. The rifle works. The rounds are duds.


26 posted on 04/13/2014 12:30:58 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: Psalm 144

The person I replied to got the rounds.


27 posted on 04/13/2014 2:00:01 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: nathanbedford
WAPO Map shows only Crimea as majority Russian ethnicity (solid brown). Striped brown/yellow is mostly Russian speaking with significant (not majority) ethnic Russians.

Ethnic Russians are a minority in all Oblasts of rump Ukraine. Especially the area bordering Crimea.

28 posted on 04/13/2014 2:06:22 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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