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Ukraine says it can prove that Russia coordinated weekend attacks
KyivPost ^ | April 13, 2014 | Katya Gorchinskaya

Posted on 04/13/2014 11:51:32 AM PDT by 1rudeboy

Ukrainian officials say that Russia coordinated the takeovers of several Donetsk Oblast government buildings seized over the weaken by heavily armed and masked men in military uniforms.

“We have all concrete proof of Russia's secret agency involvement in the separatist insurgency and takeovers of government buildings in eastern Ukraine. The evidence and witness testimonies will be presented to the international community on April 17 in Geneva,” Ukraine's Foreign Ministry said in a statement on April 13.

Former Vladimir Putin's adviser Andrei Illarionov, expressed a similar conviction to Ukraine's Gordon.ua news website.

“I have to stress, this is an intervention, an insurgency of Russian special forces, not a separatist riot on the territory of Ukraine. If the problem is not solved within three days, the territories of Ukraine will be lost,” said Illarionov.

Some of Ukraine's security specialists say that the Russian military operation is supported by genuine separatist sentiment in the east.

“It's not a clean insurgence. There are, unfortunately, also separatist moods, and people think Kyiv is full of 'Banderites' and set them up,” says one senior source from a security agency, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of sensitivity of the issue. "Banderites" refers to supporters of Ukrainian nationalist Stepan Bandera (1909-1959), who is reviled by the Kremlin as a Nazi collaborator.

“If it was just clearly Russian invasion, the operation would be much cleaner,” the source said.

Nevertheless, there is plenty of evidence to point to heavy Russian military presence in the coordinated takeovers.

Use of Russian weapons, well-trained men

Some of the weapons used by the “little green men,” the camouflaged soldiers with no insignia who appeared over the weekend in many towns in eastern Ukraine, are not carried by either the Ukrainian army, or any of its special agencies. In particular, automatic rifles of AK-100 series that are visible on many photos and videos from Sloviansk, are one type of such weapons.

Acting President Olekandr Turchynov also said in his April 13 address that it was “terrorist groups coordinated by the Russian Federation” who took over Interior Ministry departments and other administraive buildings in Sloviansk and other cities of Donetsk Oblast. “It was particularly dangerous in the town of Slovansk, where professionally trained criminals were working, dressed in Russian camouflage and armed with Russian automatic weapons,” Turchynov said.

Videos taken in Kramatorsk show what is clearly a well-organized military operation, where part of the camouflaged men walk inside the building, while others secure the perimeter outside as they kneel in front of the entrance, pointing their guns outwards. (More videos here and here.)

Heavy presence of Russian coordinators

Earlier this month, Ukraine's Security Service detained Roman Bannykh, affiliated with Russia's Main Intelligence Department, in Luhansk Oblast, when he attempted to enter Ukraine. The SBU said he organized and coordinated the work of a subversive group operating in Ukraine. SBU has reported a number of similar cases in the past two months, indicating a growth in the presence of Russia's secret agents in Ukraine.

Dmytro Tymchuk, a retired high-ranking army officer who organizes Information Resistance, a group that fact-checks and collects military information, said that “the general supervision over the actions of separatists is performed by the coordinators of Russian Main Intelligence Department.” He also said some of the operations are performed by troops of the Main Intelligence Department of the Military Headquarters of the Russian Federation, in coordination with private guard of a Ukrainian oligarch and local separatist troops made up of volunteers.

Communication traffic traced back to Russia

The analysis of communication traffic of the separatists can be traced back to Russia. The actions of separatist forces are coordinated through radio channels and online channels, and coordinators of actions can be traced back to the Russian Federation, Ukraine security source said.

Geography of attacks is not accidental

The geography of attacks in Donetsk Oblast is not accidental for two reasons. Many of the cities that were attacked are located close to the Svyatohorsk Assumption Lavra, or monastery, of the Moscow Patriarchate, which Ukrainian security officials believe serves as a military base for the insurgents. The towns such as Sloviansk and Kramatorsk in Donetsk Oblast, where separatist actions have been particularly fierce, are easily accessible from that location.

Moreover, the towns have a certain strategic significance, particularly from the point of view of securing control over transport and access to Donetsk Oblast. Krasnoarmeisk, for example, hosts a military air base used by a flight club at the moment. Druzhkovka and Gorlovka are railway junctions.

“From the map you can clearly see that all the towns that became epicenters of conflicts (on April 12) form a provisional chain that cuts Donetsk Oblast from Dnipropetrovsk,” Levyi Bereg news website wrote on April 12.

Copy of Maidan

The separatists in eastern Ukraine attempt to copy the EuroMaidan Revolution's successful tactics in their work. They create barricades around buildings they take over, they use car tires and set them on fire to protect themselves from attacks of anti-terrorist troops unleashed by the central government. These are all planned attempts to legitimize the separatist moves in eastern Ukraine, some analysts have noted.

At the same time, much of what happens in Ukraine is similar to the early stages of operations in Crimea. There, similarly clad military men also appeared at the early stages of the takeover of the peninsula, and were then followed by Russian army vehicles.

Turchynov, in his April 13 address, noted this similarity. “We will not allow Russia to repeat the Crimean spenario in the eastern region of Ukraine,” he said, announcing a massive anti-terrorist operation.

The action looks coordinated to be over by April 17

Ukraine's authorities fear that the separatist actions that started in eastern Ukraine this weekend look coordinated to finish by April 17, when multilateral talks are planned on Ukraine-Russan relations in the wake of Crimea annexation.

But Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned U.S. State Secretary John Kerry in a telephone conversation on April 12 that the talks will not happen in Kyiv uses force to deal with insurgence in the country's east.

“Lavrov warned that in the case of materialization of the threats that sound from Kyiv to use force against the desperate residents of southeast, the prospect of further cooperation on Ukrainian issue will be disrupted, including the planned four-side meeting in Geneva” Russia's Foreign Ministry warned in its April 13 statement.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: donetsk; putin; russia; ukraine
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1 posted on 04/13/2014 11:51:32 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Just kidnap a few of those Russians and hold them for ransom. Have them I.D. themselves on youtube and THEN watch what happens back home!


2 posted on 04/13/2014 12:04:14 PM PDT by DIRTYSECRET (urope. Why do they put up with this.)
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To: 1rudeboy

The Ukrainians are playing this smart. Shining light on the rats is the best thing to do, so nobody is taken in by Russian propaganda when they march into Ukraine to commit slaughter.


3 posted on 04/13/2014 12:11:18 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: DIRTYSECRET; 1rudeboy

Finally ever sice this started I’ve been screaming that’s what the Ukrainians should be doing this in post #4 ;
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3143592/posts
along with and actually earlier in post #10 http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3143651/posts
and above all take this position.

Putin is moving troops into areas where there are significant shale oil deposits along the Ukrainian eastern border between Belaruss (White Russia) and Russia. Along with sending in the insurgent teams into towns creating instability so he can move in and under the guise of the Russian people and secure these fields for himself and his oil company oliarchs including Krill the metroplitan and leader of the Russian Orthodox church.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3141958/posts


4 posted on 04/13/2014 12:59:49 PM PDT by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause.Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Many people are deliberately believing Putin despite all the evidence that he’s a world class liar.


5 posted on 04/13/2014 1:09:56 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: 1rudeboy

That proof and a $5 bill will get you an Obama coffee.


6 posted on 04/13/2014 1:22:40 PM PDT by Iron Munro (The future ain't what it use to be -- Yogi Berra)
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To: 1rudeboy
I bet they have electronic intelligence from the extensive network of Ukrainian satellites, sophisticated “technical means”, and reliable unbiased sources.

Seems to me that the Ukraine leaders think that as long as they yell, "the Russians are coming" no one will pay any attention to what the new leadership is up to.

I can't decide whether the Ukrainians or the Russians are tossing more manure around. If the Ukrainians can't get their act together pretty soon the Russians won't have to do anything except accept the delegations from the Eastern Ukraine who show up to ask to be part of Russia. They won't even have to send anyone, just nice new uniforms and ammo.

7 posted on 04/13/2014 1:30:53 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

I’d wager that the amount of manure is 80 - 20 in favor of the Russians. Of course, we have a good number of FReepers who are skeptical of everything, unless it’s sourced through Russian state-owned media.


8 posted on 04/13/2014 1:36:04 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
fyi . . . Some "proof" isn't very convincing. The AK-100 is available in a number of calibers including NATO 5.56 and in fact are inexpensive by comparison to the M-16 family.

From "The Guns Network LLC" site"

AK-100 SERIES: RUSSIAN EXPANSION OF MARKET

The mere fact of appearance of the AK-100 series is a sure indication that IZHMASH makes a vigorous attempt to regain and expand its International markets. When caliber 5.45 x 39 mm weapons were introduced into mass production to replace the rifles in 7.62 x 39 mm, it was discovered that most of the Russian traditional foreign customers would think twice before placing firm purchase orders. They merely did not trust 5.45 so well as they trusted an old and proven caliber 7.62. In addition 5.45 x 39 mm ammunition was harder to get, while 7.62 x 39 mm was easy to come by. As a result, the volume of exportation shrank considerably. In order to enhance market competitiveness IZHMASH decided to put in line the guns in three calibers: 5.45, 7.62 and 5.56. The Kalashnikovs in 5.56 x 45 mm were created exclusively for export. As a matter of fact, firing the NATO ammunition, AK-101 and AK-102 showed the results noticeably better than 5.45 x 39 mm. First, the case of a 5.56 round is by 6 mm longer and provides propulsion about 20 % greater. Second, quality of cartridge components including propellant, primer and projectile is evidently superior. The geometry of the longer NATO case with least difference between the diameter of the case body and the bullet results in better fire accuracy. Hence, the hit probability as well as the accuracy potential of AK-101 is 22 - 23 % higher than those of the AK74M. Now having the Kalashnikovs in 5.56 x 45 mm IZHMASH seems to be ready to deal with those clients who were traditionally controlled by Western arms suppliers. Anyway, if there is a demand, there must be an offer.

So, what round do those AK-100s fire? NATO 5.56 would be my bet. If I'm wrong, I'll be glad to hear it but right now, I'm looking at the way Libya was handled along with the way this administration and the EU tried to hand Egypt to the MB on a silver platter and thinking that I don't trust anything a gang backed by the EU/US has to say. Especially when they're backing a government that installed itself by mob rule only a few months prior to an election.

9 posted on 04/13/2014 1:52:37 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

It’s only mob rule if it’s not the Russians . . . .


10 posted on 04/13/2014 1:54:27 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
" . . . unless it’s sourced through Russian state-owned media."

Hardy, har, har. At least the Russians know how to make their propaganda rat poison with 90% plus fact mixed in it and if you're on your toes you can figure out and ignore the 10% that's rotgut.

The Ukrainians, so far, can't seem to even keep their yarns straight two days in a row and as with the "AK-100" stuff seem to think there's no need to check the facts as long as they use the right buzzwords. If they're actually dumb enough to report on those weapons with no statement about which round they fire, maybe they're just too inept and disorganized to know what's going on. In fact, that would explain a lot.

11 posted on 04/13/2014 2:00:15 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: 1rudeboy
So, I see, you either believe all Russia's fault our you're a rabid Ruskie supporter. Well, at least no one will ever drown in the depths of that sort of thinking, not even an ant that can drown in a drop of water.
12 posted on 04/13/2014 2:05:13 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: 1rudeboy
Krasnoarmeisk?

Interesting name. Red Army Town?

13 posted on 04/13/2014 2:07:03 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus (ADES)
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To: Rashputin

You should heed your own advice, especially regarding your concerns about “what the leadership is up to,” not trusting a “’gang’ backed by the EU/US,” and governments installed “by mob rule.”


14 posted on 04/13/2014 2:12:10 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Rashputin

Many special forces units have AK-100 series.


15 posted on 04/13/2014 2:13:52 PM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: kronos77
So I've heard which is why I looked up a link with the info. When I first heard there was an assault rifle in the AK series and an LMG similar to the SAW both made in Russia and both firing NATO 5.56 I thought that must be a mistake.

I figured they were weapons altered about the same way I had a Garand altered to use NATO 7.62. I was wrong, both are export versions made in Russia and readily available for a very good price on the world market. I would bet more than a few have been purchased with US and EU tax dollars.

16 posted on 04/13/2014 2:27:29 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: 1rudeboy
Sure, the only voice of reason just happens to be the one you agree with. Gotcha.

If that wasn't a mob in Kiev there's never been one. A mob can replace a bad government with a good one, a good government with a bad one, or a bad government with a worse one. It's still a mob, especially if it forces a change of government only months prior to a legal, Constitutional, election.

Sorry, I'll think for myself and so far for every bit of Russian BS I've seen it's been called and raised by Ukrainian BS. If you figure the Ukrainians now in charge are on the side of the angels, so be it, more power to you.

have a nice day

17 posted on 04/13/2014 2:33:07 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: 1rudeboy
A majority of Ukraine's military in Crimea decided to leave the Ukraine military and become Russian citizens. They've got access to anything Ukraine left behind, probably weapons of their own, and the knowledge and training to run effective military operations in adjacent districts. It's not a stretch to imagine them organizing this without Russia's help.

One thing we haven't seen anything about is if other members of Ukraine's military have left and are fghting against the thug government in Kiev.

18 posted on 04/13/2014 2:36:47 PM PDT by grania
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To: Rashputin
And while we're on the subject of heeding your advice, what did the Ukrainian president do that put peaceful protestors into the street? (Granted, the protests later turned violent, so that is not in dispute). Later, why did the protests turn violent?

You imply that you're following some sort of a timeline, but yours doesn't start at the beginning.

19 posted on 04/13/2014 2:39:50 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: grania

Russian citizens but no Russian help. Got it.


20 posted on 04/13/2014 2:40:42 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

2008 picture shows Special Battalion Vostok. Spetznaz unit of Russian military intelligence (GRU). Manned with Chechens.

21 posted on 04/13/2014 2:46:52 PM PDT by Krosan
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To: 1rudeboy
If they're Ukranian citizens who left the military when Crimea became part of Russia but don't live in Crimea, they're still Ukraine citizens. Add to that Ukranian military who sided with eastern Ukraine. They'd be Ukranian citizens and capable of running a military operation in their home area.

Meanwhile, it's pretty certain that McCain and Nuyland openly supported and met with the Kiev thugs. And isn't Biden going there to show support in about a week?

22 posted on 04/13/2014 2:47:16 PM PDT by grania
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To: elhombrelibre

Putin has meat shipped from Southside Market in Elgin, Texas. The man knows his sausage!


23 posted on 04/13/2014 2:47:24 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican
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To: grania

‘nuther thing I find humorous . . . we are supposed to believe that Nuland had her fingers in the pie, but Putin? How dare anyone even suggest the thought!


24 posted on 04/13/2014 2:50:32 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: elhombrelibre

People prefer lies over the truth.


25 posted on 04/13/2014 2:56:17 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Do they really need proof? It’s not like Sri Lanka did it


26 posted on 04/13/2014 2:56:26 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Krosan
Found a bigger image.


27 posted on 04/13/2014 2:56:31 PM PDT by Krosan
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To: Rashputin; All

The Ukrainians are correct in their assessment. Photos have been shown of known GRU and Spetznaz troops seen in Crimea now present in Eastern Ukraine, and many of their agents have been arrested, along with communications intercepted. Also, it is unlikely that home grown rebels are able to launch a coordinated assault against multiple targets all at the same time, all along an important invasion route for Russia. The Useful Idiots here are a little too trusting of their communist overlords in Moscow. Anyone who doesn’t understand what the Russians are doing in Ukraine is an idiot.


28 posted on 04/13/2014 3:00:51 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
"Anyone who doesn’t understand what the Russians are doing in Ukraine is an idiot."

And anyone who doesn't understand what the US and EU are doing in the Ukraine is an idiot.

But, it takes a really, really, special kind of idiot to think the Russians are the only ones double-dealing and murdering in the Ukraine.

29 posted on 04/13/2014 3:05:07 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: 1rudeboy

One group seemed to be calling themselves “Afghanistan Veterans”


30 posted on 04/13/2014 3:05:44 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Rashputin

How many troops has the US or EU sent to Ukraine?


31 posted on 04/13/2014 3:08:58 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: mosesdapoet

Capture a couple of them and post pictures saying “Come get your husband/kid”. Interesting to see if Putin can get away with this in age of social media


32 posted on 04/13/2014 3:09:23 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Rashputin
And anyone who doesn't understand what the US and EU are doing in the Ukraine is an idiot.

You mean, what the Ukrainians themselves are doing in Ukraine. I don't believe conspiracy theories about the NWO. But, it takes a really, really, special kind of idiot to think the Russians are the only ones double-dealing and murdering in the Ukraine.

Nothing sickens me more than liberal style moral relativism, seeking to equalize NATO with the Soviet bloc. Even with Obama at the helm, we are nothing like the Russians who are literally being led by people with sympathies for Neo-Nazi doctrines and Aleister Crowley Satanists.

33 posted on 04/13/2014 3:09:27 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Rashputin
Whoops, forgot a slash: And anyone who doesn't understand what the US and EU are doing in the Ukraine is an idiot.

You mean, what the Ukrainians themselves are doing in Ukraine. I don't believe conspiracy theories about the NWO.

But, it takes a really, really, special kind of idiot to think the Russians are the only ones double-dealing and murdering in the Ukraine.

Nothing sickens me more than liberal style moral relativism, seeking to equalize NATO with the Soviet bloc. Even with Obama at the helm, we are nothing like the Russians who are literally being led by people with sympathies for Neo-Nazi doctrines and Aleister Crowley Satanists.

34 posted on 04/13/2014 3:10:07 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: elhombrelibre
Many people are deliberately believing Putin despite all the evidence that he’s a world class liar.

Many people believe that Russians are the majority, so what Putin is doing is OK.

35 posted on 04/13/2014 3:12:09 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Mike Darancette

Or maybe they just think it’s none of our business.


36 posted on 04/13/2014 3:13:20 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Mike Darancette

65 percent of people in Eastern Ukraine, from recent polling, do not support being annexed by Russia, and a greater number do not claim to be “pressured” or under threat from Kiev. The “protestors,” with a good portion of them being pre-invasion forces of Russia, are a small minority.


37 posted on 04/13/2014 3:15:28 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Rashputin
If that wasn't a mob in Kiev there's never been one. A mob can replace a bad government with a good one, a good government with a bad one, or a bad government with a worse one. It's still a mob, especially if it forces a change of government only months prior to a legal, Constitutional, election.

Is it just possible that Putin faced with an election which was probably going to go against Russian interests inject a "false flag" group into demonstrations? The only way he could grab Crimea was to delegitimize the Ukrainian government before the election.

38 posted on 04/13/2014 3:21:06 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: elhombrelibre

The Ukranian leaders simply need to come out against gays, that’ll bring the Putin fans back behind the Ukranians.


39 posted on 04/13/2014 3:25:43 PM PDT by AnAmericanInEngland
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To: AnAmericanInEngland

Slavs, in general, don’t care for gays.


40 posted on 04/13/2014 3:28:17 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: 1rudeboy
Later, why did the protests turn violent?

Ukrainian government snipers killing rioters. Of course riot police don't usually use snipers. Maybe Russian "false flag"?

41 posted on 04/13/2014 3:34:16 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Rashputin
“fyi . . . Some “proof” isn't very convincing. The AK-100 is available in a number of calibers including NATO 5.56 and in fact are inexpensive by comparison to the M-16 family.”

And... ? You mean Soros/NWO purchased them and set it all up to make Russia look bad ?

42 posted on 04/13/2014 4:02:23 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: 1rudeboy
Not to worry Ukraine, Obama is sending help the following week.

Joe Biden

43 posted on 04/13/2014 4:03:11 PM PDT by AU72
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To: AU72
"President Obama personally asked me to relay a message that he enjoys MRE's also, but that they don't meet the First Lady's dietary guidelines for preschoolers."
--Joe Biden
44 posted on 04/13/2014 4:05:51 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Grzegorz 246

Set it up so their guys wouldn’t look any different than the Russians would be more like it.


45 posted on 04/13/2014 4:22:58 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: mosesdapoet

Putin wants to reconstruct the USSR...


46 posted on 04/13/2014 4:46:13 PM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: 1rudeboy
"How many troops has the US or EU sent to Ukraine?"

At this point I'd say several dozen each from the US and whatever NATO country or countries volunteered to help our guys. What's your guess?

47 posted on 04/13/2014 9:04:57 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I think the Ukrainians are playing it dumb. They should be already blowing crap up in Russia. They should be talking to the Turks to liven things up there.

By doing nothing they allow Putin an easy victory.

or maybe they don’t really want to bleed to get their freedom? Maybe they want U.S. to.....in which case I tell em to go to hell.

Show me


48 posted on 04/13/2014 9:32:31 PM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, WIN LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: TomasUSMC

Well do you really want to get in a p*ss fight with the Bear?


49 posted on 04/13/2014 9:35:27 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Mike Darancette

They’re the majority only in Crimea. And do you think that Putin would allow areas in Russia where Russians are not a majority to secede?


50 posted on 04/13/2014 9:42:20 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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