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IRS seizes refunds of taxpayers whose parents owe the government money
American Thinker ^ | 04/12/2014 | Rick Moran

Posted on 04/13/2014 11:55:27 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

When are the sins of the father visited upon his children? When the IRS and Social Security Administration say so.

Hit and Run:

Holding children responsible for the debt incurred by their parents is a feature of historical feudalism and a few modern third-world shitholes.

Developed countries, by and large, assume that a debt dies with the person who willingly incurred it, or at least stops with his or her estate. "By and large," I write, because the U.S. government has broken with centuries of tradition holding individuals responsible for their choices, opting to withhold tax refunds from children whose parents incurred vague and often ill-documented obligations to the feds.

The case of Mary Grice, a Maryland resident, reveals just how much Obama has "transformed" America:

A few weeks ago, with no notice, the U.S. government intercepted Mary Grice’s tax refunds from both the IRS and the state of Maryland. Grice had no idea that Uncle Sam had seized her money until some days later, when she got a letter saying that her refund had gone to satisfy an old debt to the government — a very old debt.

When Grice was 4, back in 1960, her father died, leaving her mother with five children to raise. Until the kids turned 18, Sadie Grice got survivor benefits from Social Security to help feed and clothe them.

[...]

“It was a shock,” said Grice, 58. “What incenses me is the way they went about this. They gave me no notice, they can’t prove that I received any overpayment, and they use intimidation tactics, threatening to report this to the credit bureaus.”


(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: irs; tax; taxes
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1 posted on 04/13/2014 11:55:27 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Well isn’t that typical of people who believe in collective lives instead of individuality.


2 posted on 04/13/2014 11:57:09 AM PDT by Kackikat
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To: SeekAndFind

By such logic, the children of the EXEMPT should
have their homes taken to repay for ObamaCARE,
and the IRS and NSA scandals.

Sounds like a future Constitutional Amendment.


3 posted on 04/13/2014 11:58:17 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Kackikat

I wonder how much she loves Obama now.


4 posted on 04/13/2014 11:59:00 AM PDT by Perdogg (Ted Cruz-Rand Paul 2016)
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To: SeekAndFind
THE IRS IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION!

5 posted on 04/13/2014 12:00:26 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal the 16th Amendment)
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To: SeekAndFind

Those in government are going after and seizing everything they can to keep their opulent tax paid retirement pensions from going bankrupt.


6 posted on 04/13/2014 12:00:33 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Perdogg

By default, isn’t our president then responsible for the total amount of welfare and housing paid out to his Auntie Zetuni?


7 posted on 04/13/2014 12:01:23 PM PDT by blackdog (There is no such thing as healing, only a balance between destructive and constructive forces.)
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To: Perdogg

Let’s see how the MSM will spin this.

1. The IRS doesn’t just go after Tea Party folks ?

2. Well, if they owe the money, then that is that?

3. The IRS should leave them alone if they are a minority?

4. I’m sure 0bama will use his pen to fix this ?


8 posted on 04/13/2014 12:04:52 PM PDT by Zeneta (Thoughts in time and out of season.)
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To: blackdog

He signed the farm bill which included this provision in 2010.


9 posted on 04/13/2014 12:04:53 PM PDT by Perdogg (Ted Cruz-Rand Paul 2016)
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To: SeekAndFind

Thanks Obama!


10 posted on 04/13/2014 12:06:04 PM PDT by Dallas59 ("Remember me as you pass by, As you are now, so once was I, As I am now, so you will be," -Epitap)
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To: blackdog

Only applies if you or your parents are/were conservative.
Liberals will get a pass. There are too many Lois Lerners types at IRS.


11 posted on 04/13/2014 12:07:32 PM PDT by entropy12
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To: SeekAndFind

I never thought of Social Security survivor benefits as incurring a debt to the government. In the olden days they used to call it INSURANCE. People bought it, paid for it, and their family never got anything unless they died. This opens the door for the govt to come after any family whose breadwinner paid into social security and died. Are the Lois Lerners now going after those elderly widows collecting their husband’s “benefits”?


12 posted on 04/13/2014 12:13:09 PM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: Diogenesis

Taking the homes after the parents die as repayment for medicaid, is already the law and has been for some time.


13 posted on 04/13/2014 12:14:13 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The headline misstates the facts. The parents are not the owners of the money, she is the one that was over paid. At least that is the charge.

I suspect she knows that because her objections were not to the facts but that it was so sudden. She was given no warning prior to the withdrawal.

She says there is no proof and that may very well be the case but that is a matter for the courts to decide.

She has my sympathy


14 posted on 04/13/2014 12:14:51 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: SeekAndFind

They voted for it, they got it.

Elections have consequences.


15 posted on 04/13/2014 12:16:02 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: SeekAndFind

This should be an violation of probate law.

When a person dies, there is a very short amount of time for any creditors to make claims on a persons estate.

After that time, the distribution of the assets of the estate are final.

I do not see how the IRS can retroactively attach the assets of a fully probated estate so what they are doing should be illegal.


16 posted on 04/13/2014 12:20:24 PM PDT by rdcbn
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To: SeekAndFind

This is insane and tyrannical


17 posted on 04/13/2014 12:20:38 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: GeronL

As Christians I know we are not supposed to hate others but one half-breed in the WH is really pushing my limits...and the majority of the populace probably


18 posted on 04/13/2014 12:24:21 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: jsanders2001

Very true


19 posted on 04/13/2014 12:25:03 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: unixfox

The District of Criminals is a criminal organization.


20 posted on 04/13/2014 12:28:25 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: SeekAndFind
If this is the case then the descendants are due the money that was due the parents when they died. I don't believe they can have it both ways. My family is due pension money from the Civil War for duties for the Union Army.
21 posted on 04/13/2014 12:30:13 PM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: SeekAndFind
I can guarantee that the moment that Osama Obama realized that he was gonna get his 16,000 new IRS agents he "climaxed" in his pants.

Repeatedly.

22 posted on 04/13/2014 12:31:52 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Stalin Blamed The Kulaks,Obama Blames The Tea Party)
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To: SeekAndFind

Will the government punish Hussein’s kids for their Communist father destroying the USA?

(That question assumes Hussein is actually related to those kids).


23 posted on 04/13/2014 12:33:49 PM PDT by LyinLibs (If victims of islam were more "islamophobic," maybe they'd still be alive.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Oh yeah, like they need an excuse.


24 posted on 04/13/2014 12:35:27 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: jsanders2001

“As Christians I know we are not supposed to hate others”

Actually, there are several references in the Bible commanding God’s people to “hate evil”. And I know evil when I see it/him.


25 posted on 04/13/2014 12:35:28 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam
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To: MayflowerMadam

Actually you are right. I know many if the verses. I was speaking in generalities.


26 posted on 04/13/2014 12:43:14 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: SeekAndFind

Section. 10.
Clause 1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

We fought a war against King George over this, amongst other things. And they find the authority to do this where?


27 posted on 04/13/2014 12:43:28 PM PDT by Clay Moore ("To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." ~Voltaire)
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To: silverleaf

Exactly!!!! This is insurance just like disability with SS.


28 posted on 04/13/2014 12:49:11 PM PDT by autumnraine
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To: dragnet2

Bears repeating ...

Those in government are going after and seizing everything they can to keep their opulent tax paid retirement pensions from going bankrupt.


29 posted on 04/13/2014 12:56:58 PM PDT by George from New England (escaped CT in 2006, now living north of Tampa)
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To: Clay Moore
And they find the authority to do this where?

The muzzle of an IRS agent's gun.

30 posted on 04/13/2014 1:00:19 PM PDT by OldMissileer
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To: rdcbn

I wonder if it was fully probated? My lawyer told me that many times no one wants to probate and estate, and sometimes houses just sit and deteriorate and fall down.

He had a client who contacted Medicaid and asked them if they would take the lead, because no one in the family wanted to. Medicaid said no, that they would not file their claim until after a claim was filed with probate.

Also, their are some people who quietly transferred the ownership of their home to their children years before they went on Medicaid, so that it would not be an asset in their estate. A real estate agent had my Grandma do this when she sold the farm and bought a little house in town, just in case.

At one time there were lawyers that went around writing trusts to help people avoid their homes being pulled into the estate for settlement of Medicaid and other creditors. However laws were written to make that illegel IIRC.


31 posted on 04/13/2014 1:00:30 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: greeneyes

On the transfer to family or someone else prior to medicaid, there is a look back period. Don’t recall if it’s 3 or 5 years.

If you transfer within that time frame they can still try to recoup your medical costs. Have to get the transfer done early.

Trust does not protect the asset.


32 posted on 04/13/2014 1:03:30 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: MayflowerMadam

When will everyone finally realize that this is no land of the free. It’s just an illusion. We are living in a totalitarian country run by the oligarchs - foreign or domestic. There are hardly any states rights left, their is virtually no sovereignty left. As soon as the Feds decide to tighten the fake money supply you won’t recognize anything about this once great nation.


33 posted on 04/13/2014 1:04:25 PM PDT by Digger
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To: SeekAndFind

Fascism in practice.

The irs is the most corrupt organization there is.


34 posted on 04/13/2014 1:06:57 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: blackdog

“By default, isn’t our president then responsible for the total amount of welfare and housing paid out to his Auntie Zetuni?”

This !


35 posted on 04/13/2014 1:07:18 PM PDT by daku
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To: SeekAndFind

This is a violation of a lot of fair debt collection acts. They didn’t send proof of the debt, and it is so old that no one had the paperwork to defend themselves with.


36 posted on 04/13/2014 1:54:16 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: SeekAndFind

Sippenhaftung


37 posted on 04/13/2014 1:58:02 PM PDT by Peet (The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal. - Aristotle)
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To: morphing libertarian

Yes, there is a lookback period. My granny’s children were the owners of her house a good 10 years before she had to go to a rest home, and didn’t even know it until the application for Medicaid.

Trust doesn’t protect it that’s true. However, before the legal changes, there was a way of setting up an irrevocable trust that some lawyer figured out. It was a loop hole that was quickly closed. I can’t remember the exact details now, because it was quite some time ago.


38 posted on 04/13/2014 1:59:28 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: GeronL

Well, if it must be, I hope they perform attachment and/or jail for all the EBT scum.


39 posted on 04/13/2014 2:02:08 PM PDT by SgtHooper
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To: SgtHooper

Exactly


40 posted on 04/13/2014 2:02:57 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: SeekAndFind

If you like your tax refund (aka what you already overpaid), you can keep your refund.

not...


41 posted on 04/13/2014 2:30:52 PM PDT by bgill
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To: silverleaf

In the olden days it was also not supposed to be used as ID but now they’re talking about putting your picture on it to be used as ID.


42 posted on 04/13/2014 2:40:30 PM PDT by bgill
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To: SeekAndFind

Will they want food stamps repaid?


43 posted on 04/13/2014 2:50:23 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: greeneyes
ah but now obamacare can demand repayment of any “subsidies” received for an “affordable” obamacare policy!

They specifically made it for age 55 and above, all those folks getting forced by unemployment or trickle up poverty into MEDICAID and subsidies, but too young for Medicare

And you can also get screwed if your income goes up or family circumstances change - then the IRS will come after you to repay your healthcare insurance “subsidy"..guess they can also come after your heirs if you die, they seem determined to get the assets of the elderly and middle class, to redistribute

and Nancy Pelosi stands there and parses this as the AFFORDABLE AFFORDABLE AFFORDABLE Care Act

It's a govt loan, not a "subsidy"

44 posted on 04/13/2014 2:54:43 PM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: SeekAndFind

Proving once again that in Obama’s Bible “We are our brothers keeper”...


45 posted on 04/13/2014 2:56:11 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: Perdogg

I thought about that and prayed the whole black community would be up in arms, since they have a lot of ancestors who were on disability and other forms of government programs....if there is outstanding debt the IRS said they would get it from descendants and family members. This may get changed once zero and the democratss running for office realize who it was.


46 posted on 04/13/2014 3:00:52 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: SeekAndFind

Corruption of Blood

The doctrine of corruption of blood mandated that when a person committed a criminal or treasonous act, he and his entire family became outlaws...
Why the founding fathers rejected corruption of blood remains unclear, but they seem to have been concerned about creating familial, rather than individual, punishment...
http://uscivilliberties.org/themes/3651-corruption-of-blood.html


47 posted on 04/13/2014 3:10:11 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: greeneyes

Thanx good story


48 posted on 04/13/2014 3:21:51 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: silverleaf

And most people aren’t even aware of it. Obama care removed the asset limits, so more people qualify for Medicaid, and there’s not an alternate on the exchanges. So people either accept the Medicaid, or pay a fine. Quite a little pincher manuver.

Then there is the Medicaid expansion that is being pushed for those at 139% of poverty. I haven’t heard anyone mention to the people that are for it, that the government will lay claim to the recipient’s estate.

I talked to my State Senator about this on Friday. Nary a word from the people pushing this, and the Republican response that gets press? There’s not such thing as a free lunch. Pubbies just can’t articulate facts that help their case it seems.

Hypthetically, the people can go on Medicaid, never use it, and drop dead at home, and I guess their estate will be charged for the “value of that insurance”. That could be some serious bucks, depending how they calculate it.

My private insurance was a 5000 dollar deductible 80/20 with no Rx, for just me and it cost me $800 dollars a month. I never spent more than %500/year for my medical care during all that time. I did benefit from the insurance company’s negotiated rate vs the individual rate for non-insured.


49 posted on 04/13/2014 3:27:57 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: morphing libertarian

Glad you found it of interest.


50 posted on 04/13/2014 3:31:14 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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