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Ukraine Asks U.N. to Help Control Insurgent East
NY Times (Still better than Russia Today) ^ | APRIL 14, 2014 | ANDREW HIGGINS

Posted on 04/14/2014 7:34:01 PM PDT by BurningOak

KIEV, Ukraine — Ukraine’s failure to enforce its own ultimatums and its appeal on Monday to the United Nations to send peacekeepers laid bare a grim reality for the shaky government in Kiev, where political leaders and security forces have few reliable ways to confront Russian-backed separatists in the restive east.

A deadline set by Ukraine’s acting president for the start of a “large-scale antiterrorist operation” in the east passed without any clear police or military intervention. Meanwhile, pro-Russian militants seized yet another government building in the Donetsk region, bringing to at least nine the number of eastern towns now swept up in a spiraling insurgency.

The country’s acting president, Oleksandr V. Turchynov, asked the United Nations to send peacekeepers. But the move was widely viewed as an act of desperation, given that Russia holds a veto at the United Nations Security Council and is unlikely to assent to a such a request.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: putin; russia; ukraine; un
It looks like the Ukraine government is going belly up in the fight against Putin. Asking for the UN to intervene is utterly silly and weak with Russia seating on the Security Council. I am not sure I can blame them, they got Russian special forces and Kremlin loyalists running around with machine guns taking over government and security buildings. If Ukraine lets this slide, they effectively lost control and East Ukraine goes the way of Crimea. If Ukraine fights back, the Russians massed at the border will invade.

The only thing that can stop this is a unified response from the West that threatens to meet force with force. When I say West I mean West, not just US, it would have to be a combined force from all free nations, NATO and beyond. Thus far, I do not see the willingness to do this, so Ukraine is screwed. That what they get for wanting freedom I guess.

1 posted on 04/14/2014 7:34:01 PM PDT by BurningOak
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To: BurningOak

Asking the most useless organization since the League of Nations for help? I’m sure they’ll get all the support they need.... in the form of a very nice letter from Ban Ki Moon.


2 posted on 04/14/2014 7:41:30 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: Viennacon

Israel gets the letters. Russia will not even get a fax from this utterly useless waste of of NYC real estate.


3 posted on 04/14/2014 7:48:43 PM PDT by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: BurningOak
The only thing that can stop this is a unified response from the West that threatens to meet force with force. When I say West I mean West, not just US, it would have to be a combined force from all free nations, NATO and beyond. Thus far, I do not see the willingness to do this, so Ukraine is screwed. That what they get for wanting freedom I guess.

Actually, the only things that can stop this are the appointment of men to security positions who are actually doers, and the willingness of the Ukrainian people to fight. The Interior Minister appears to be an academic whose specialty is sociology. Russia's Interior Ministry put down the Chechen revolt. Without the appointment of people to key positions with experience leading large bodies of men in the security apparatus, Ukraine is done as a sovereign nation. George Washington was a key commander in the French and Indian Wars. Key commanders in the Continental Army had experience leading formations in Europe. Many of the the men of that era viewed an education in military history and strategy as a key component of a classical education. If Ukraine cannot bring itself to either fight the Russians or appoint men who are willing to do so in leadership positions, perhaps its destiny is to become a Russian province. Nobody respects an underdog who gives up without a fight.

4 posted on 04/14/2014 7:48:43 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

I agree about putting competent people in important places, one of the great indictments of free government is that we end up with people like Clinton, Bush, and Obama in charge.

But I disagree with you about Ukraine being able to do anything about the Russian invasion without outside help. Sometimes brains and cojones are not enough. It is nearly impossible to win a war against an enemy with vastly superior forces and better technology. Sure, they can do as the Chechens, Syrians, and Afghans, but I understand a civilized nation not wanting to go the route of a million corpses.


5 posted on 04/14/2014 7:56:23 PM PDT by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: BurningOak; Jacquerie; Jane Long; All

Another opportunity approaches for B. Hussein Obama to have “his finest hour.”

Yes indeed! For over five long years, B. Hussein has been waiting for the perfect moment to demonstrate to the Liberals who voted for him in the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize White Guilt Contest, that he really was worthy of an award that he had done nothing to earn.

The time is now, as many, in ridicule, have said that Obama looks like an Ass when he leads from behind.

Now is the time to “Carpe’ the Diem” and shower his diplomatic brilliance over the pesky Ukraine incident for all the World to see.

BTW, if B. Hussein can pull this “his finest hour” off, the most surprised person will be his former self and alter-ego, Barry Soetoro.


6 posted on 04/14/2014 7:56:43 PM PDT by Graewoulf (Democrats' Obamacare Socialist Health Insur. Tax violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: BurningOak
If the Slovenes and the Croats has been as disorganized as the Ukrainians, they would still be ruled by Serbs today. The Serbs and Russians called them fascists and Nazis, too, but they prevailed anyway, because once the fighting started, the David vs Goliath nature of the war became clear, and it's pretty natural to side with the underdog.
7 posted on 04/14/2014 8:07:11 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: BurningOak

This is why the UN should never have been permitted to get involved in internal conflict anywhere, in the first place.


8 posted on 04/14/2014 8:07:18 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Zhang Fei

The problem is that all of Kiev’s best men for handling this have either defected to Russia or are working for Russia.


9 posted on 04/14/2014 8:08:51 PM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: BurningOak
But I disagree with you about Ukraine being able to do anything about the Russian invasion without outside help. Sometimes brains and cojones are not enough. It is nearly impossible to win a war against an enemy with vastly superior forces and better technology. Sure, they can do as the Chechens, Syrians, and Afghans, but I understand a civilized nation not wanting to go the route of a million corpses.

Ukraine is civilized? You know what the Ukraine is? It's a sitting duck. A road apple. The Ukraine is weak. It's feeble. Putin thinks it's time to put the hurt on the Ukraine.

10 posted on 04/14/2014 8:11:35 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: BurningOak; Zhang Fei

I don’t know how accurate this is, but much of it seems to fit, and it does describe well the difficulties Kiev faces...


April 14, News on situation in Ukraine.

KARGO-200, in Russian GRUZ-200 was code name for a zinc coffin with bodies of Soviet soldiers killed in Afganistan war. 200 because weight of coffin with body was about 200 kgs.

Today first two Cargo 200 have been loaded for Russia. Among terrorists killed two Russian militants. How many Cargo 200 will go to both sides in the future? Can be many.

Kiev is launching a full scale anti-terrorist operation. It will be slow because local police are total scam, in army many locals, they won’t shoot separatists. Border guards too will let Russian troops in.. this is the problem with area where half of population ethnic Russians. They ignore commands they receive from president, unless president is from their region, like was Yanukovich.

So what do we do? to begin combat with potential traitors by you side is risky. That’s smart of Kiev to start anti-terrorist operation with moderation. Another smart move is to send folks army, every region of Ukraine will send one battalion. Alltogether will be 12.000 troops. They all patriots, they won’t betray but the danger is they can easily turn in punitive force.

The action taking place in Donetsk region with population 4,4 million people, Luhansk area 2,9 million people. Could be some parts of Kharkiv regional area affected too. Good news is that neighboring regions of Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhya although Russian speaking are very pro-Ukrainian. People living there historically very militant, war like and very willing to go fight separatists in Donbass (name for Luhansk and Donetsk) Donbass itself is divided 50/50. Half loyal to Kiev and half looking to Moskov.

One don’t have to be very great strategist to see there is perfect condition for civil war. I’d say civil war is looming which will turn into war with Russia and it will be disaster for millions of people living in the area. Kiev already flooded with refugees from Crimea who keep coming every day. Tens of thousands Tatars and military men with families live in tents on Maydan. Now people start leaving Donbass so we have new wave of refugees and they almost all Russian speaking. I have to remind that Putin say his business in Ukraine was helping out Russian speaking population and this days in downtown you can see people with posters- I am ethnic Russian living in Ukraine, Putin, please don’t help us.

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/maydan/updateapril14.html


11 posted on 04/14/2014 8:14:11 PM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Thunder90
The problem is that all of Kiev’s best men for handling this have either defected to Russia or are working for Russia.

Plenty of foreign talent available. The Continental Army certainly employed a good number of them. Heck, plenty of ex-NATO and ex-Warsaw Pact guys with a hankering to put the hurt on the Russians.

12 posted on 04/14/2014 8:14:20 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Paul R.
I don’t know how accurate this is, but much of it seems to fit, and it does describe well the difficulties Kiev faces...

I kinda suspected that this might be a problem in the east. Tories vs Patriots all over again.

13 posted on 04/14/2014 8:18:00 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

I don’t think there is a lack of will among the people to pick up a rifle. Their problem is that the leadership is failing them and seems very lost in the matters of force usage. They have left many obvious things undone and seems they just don’t know what to do so those waiting for commands never get them.


14 posted on 04/14/2014 8:23:54 PM PDT by Krosan
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To: Paul R.

The Continental Army had a key advantage in that the British Isles weren’t just across the border, and Canada was sparsely-populated, so most of the King’s men were literally an ocean (and a month) away.


15 posted on 04/14/2014 8:30:55 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: BurningOak

“It is nearly impossible to win a war against an enemy with vastly superior forces and better technology.”

If Russia was using superior forces, or better tech, I might agree with you, but they aren’t.

They are putting a few key people in key places, and taking advantage of the already existing unrest. And winning by doing so.

The coup government, on the other hand, can only rely on a few forces in the western part of the country, and their version of the skinheads. They can’t project influence much beyond Kiev. Ukraine is even more lawless now, than it was before, which isn’t helping. Kiev is losing control over events, badly.

The Obama dministration destabilized yet another country, and got their picked people in charge, but it isn’t working out the way they had planned, because the Russians have decided that they get a vote, too.


16 posted on 04/14/2014 9:16:26 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Zhang Fei

T. Shevchenko had a line - “When will Ukraine get her Washington?”

But yeah, the current government is severely lacking in great men


17 posted on 04/14/2014 9:28:44 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: tcrlaf
The coup government, on the other hand, can only rely on a few forces in the western part of the country, and their version of the skinheads. They can’t project influence much beyond Kiev. Ukraine is even more lawless now, than it was before, which isn’t helping. Kiev is losing control over events, badly.

LOL, Zhirik is already planning a Victory parade for Yanukovich by May 1st

18 posted on 04/14/2014 9:36:16 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: tcrlaf
Here are your brave boys in Zaporizhya. Which borders Donbas, btw, but mentally is far from it. This Sunday, a pro-separatist group was surrounded by a much bigger Ukrainian crowd, holding them for 5 hours. It was very similar to what happened in Donetsk a month ago, when the pro-Russian crowd attacked a smaller Ukrainian group and killed one. This didn't happen here, because there's subtle difference humans and animals. Instead, the people in the picture were pelted with eggs, sour cream, flour etc.
Text reads, "one hour later", "4 hours later"
19 posted on 04/14/2014 9:51:28 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: tcrlaf
They are putting a few key people in key places, and taking advantage of the already existing unrest. And winning by doing so.

I'm inclined to agree with you - it looks like Putin bought people in key positions and probably is continuing to do so up and down the line. Anyway you slice it, a victory through bribes is gonna be way cheaper than a vicious and bloody stalemate fought for a decade or more. The wildcard here is whether the average Ukrainian is prepared to rejoin the Russian empire. If not, Putin can buy any number of Ukrainian pols, but it will only win him the right to provide these pols with lifetime pensions in exile in Russia proper, because Ukrainians will drive these quislings out along with Russian occupation forces once they realize they've been stabbed in the back.

20 posted on 04/14/2014 10:18:50 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Yes, and the Continental Army ended up with a substantial ally too...


21 posted on 04/16/2014 1:24:29 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Zhang Fei

I have read (don’t know if it’s true) that more Crimeans have fled Crimea than have acquired Russian citizenship.


22 posted on 04/16/2014 1:27:43 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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