Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

How to Control the IRS
American Thinker ^ | 4/15/2014 | Jon N. Hall

Posted on 04/15/2014 3:57:38 AM PDT by markomalley

Americans despise and fear the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS has been discriminating against, and has even persecuted, conservative groups. The IRS will soon be policing ObamaCare compliance with thousands of new agents.The IRS is no longer just a collection agency. The IRS even has its own SWAT teams. Something needs to be done about the IRS.

The way to get control over the IRS is through tax reform. Several tax reform plans, such as the one from the Bowles-Simpson commission, have proposed the same thing: ridding the Tax Code of its exceptions. Exceptions are the exemptions, deductions, credits, write-offs, loopholes, and gimmicks that allow taxpayers to pay less than their tax rates would indicate.

These plans are headed in the right direction, but they don’t go far enough. What they should recommend is the complete elimination of all exceptions. That would allow for the lowest rates possible that would still bring in the same revenue. Eliminating all exceptions dictates setting the new tax rates to their current effective rates, what folks actually pay. So if one currently has an effective income tax rate of, say, 10 percent, under the new system that taxpayer would have a statutory income tax rate of 10 percent. The new low rates would be levied against every dollar of income.

I’ve written about this tax reform idea here, but I didn’t give readers an idea of what their new tax rates would be. People may be surprised at how low their new rates would be under this idea.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/15/2014 3:57:38 AM PDT by markomalley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Close it...all of it. Go to flat tax...problem fixed...easy-peesy.


2 posted on 04/15/2014 4:12:00 AM PDT by Dubh_Ghlase (Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

The problem of taxing income lies not in the rates or the progression of rates, or even with “exceptions” intended to reduce the burden on the “poor” (whatever that means).

It is with the very definition of “income.” Wages? Capital gains (long or short)? Dividends? and on and on. And what about the notion of “imputed income”? What is the value of all those welfare freebies and handouts?

The solution is a consumption tax applied to all end-use purchases, with a rebate to every person (not “family”) each year of a fixed amount.

Taxing only end-use purchases prevents multiple taxation. Taxation at points prior to end-use are necessarily paid by all subsequent purchasers, not by the producer, because the producer must make a profit net of taxes.

A fixed rebate eliminates the tax burden on everyone below a certain consumption level (yes some very low level consumers might actually make a net profit), and rapidly causes the net tax rate to reach a fixed, flat level once consumption exceeds the threshold represented by the rebate.


3 posted on 04/15/2014 4:16:12 AM PDT by motor_racer (Who will bell the cat?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
Control[ing] the IRS...

A household pest.

The IRS should be treated like pantry moths or earwigs.

Squashed.

4 posted on 04/15/2014 4:26:56 AM PDT by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
In the end, we should just tax consumption instead of the process of earning money--the way the Founding Fathers intended in the first place.

By no longer taxing the process of earning money, that means income, pensions, bank account interest, capital gains and stock dividend payments are no longer taxed--and it means our banks will be fully-funded, the stock market will be WAY stronger, and there is WAY more incentive to operate a business here, since you don't have to factor in income taxes as the cost of running your business. And that means a roaring economy.

5 posted on 04/15/2014 4:37:24 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C210N

I am NO FAN of the IRS and never will be. Despite the desire of all of us to eliminate the IRS, I do NOT see that happening anytime soon. Ideally, the entire tax system would be completely overhauled or eliminated by implementing a flat tax. How will that ever happen unless the entire country votes AGAINST the demodummies?


6 posted on 04/15/2014 4:38:44 AM PDT by DaveA37
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

The irs is the engine of income redistribution.
First, by who it hires. Overwhelmingly affirmative action.
Second, by what it does. Takes money from those who earn it honestly, and gives it to those who faithfully vote democrat.


7 posted on 04/15/2014 4:47:40 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

No mention of the FAIR TAX which would eliminate the need for the irs.FAIL.


8 posted on 04/15/2014 4:50:45 AM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Abolish withholding. Problem solved.


9 posted on 04/15/2014 4:52:33 AM PDT by abb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RayChuang88
In the end, we should just tax consumption instead of the process of earning money--the way the Founding Fathers intended in the first place.

Agreed
10 posted on 04/15/2014 4:53:59 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Why do we continue to be saddled with an income tax, at all? Switch to a consumption tax, ala the Fair Tax (less the prebate garbage, unless you are also going to dump welfare), and scrap the IRS completely.
The collection mechanism is already in place via the current sales tax and state tax collection processes, and the control remains much more local than the current fedgov mess.
Dump the tax code as we know it, and no more income tax filing.

Just sayin’

And, save the flames. I’ve heard them all, and it still is not more sensible to tax income rather than consumption.


11 posted on 04/15/2014 5:02:03 AM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2016; I pray we make it that long.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: motor_racer

Here is the problem with his argument.

It doesn’t take into accout that when a rat is in office, he will raise the rate. And the libs in the house and senate will go along with that.


12 posted on 04/15/2014 5:03:43 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Tax reform (while good for its own sake) is a half assed measure for reigning in government overreach.

The A9 Ace to bulldoze most of this crap away is simply to remove non jury courts in their entirety. Thus jury nullification is restored to its proper role as a counter balance.

No tax courts.
No traffic courts.
Nada.


13 posted on 04/15/2014 5:05:33 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PubliusMM

The IRS isn’t going anywhere. Anyone trying to tell you it will under a national sales tax is either a retard or a liar. It will just get a new job and lots more yummy power. If you think an income tax audit is intrusive (and they are. I’ve been there), just wait until you have to prove you paid sales tax on every item in your home.


14 posted on 04/15/2014 5:10:32 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
"That would allow for the lowest rates possible that would still bring in the same revenue.

That's a start, as the cost of compiling with the income tax runs into the dozens of billions of dollar, which is a total dead weight loss to taxpayers.

Of course, taxes are too high, the income tax is propably unconstitutional and there's a sketchy approval history. The Federal Government should have no role in taxing individuals.

The goal has to be the elimination of the income tax and the IRS. Reforms toward that goal are good, but keep the goal in mind.

15 posted on 04/15/2014 5:12:20 AM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (You can have a free country or government schools. Choose one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog
The IRS will essentially become the collection agency for the revenue generated by FairTax. And that means the size of the agency can be cut by 80% or more. And it also means 95% lower yearly tax compliance costs--instead of an estimated US$430 billion per year, it will be like US$21.5 billion per year. That's US$408.5 billion per year now spent on tax compliance freed up for way more productive use.
16 posted on 04/15/2014 5:31:25 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: RayChuang88

Who is telling you that lie?


17 posted on 04/15/2014 5:59:31 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Every IRS “reform” effort has resulted in a more intrusive, more oppressive, mind-numbingly complex agency. It’s obvious that our elected officials don’t really want to rein in the monstrosity known as the IRS. If our senators and representatives really wanted to do the right thing they’d abolish the IRS and replace it with a National Retail Sales Tax. The inherent simplicity and fairness of the NRST, however, is repulsive to our masters. The IRS enables our masters to control the peons while the NRST would bestow freedom upon American citizens.


18 posted on 04/15/2014 6:56:19 AM PDT by lakecumberlandvet (Appeasement never works.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

How about using a consumption tax,but revenue is distributed from the bottom up,instead of top down? Tax revenues would go to local needs first,then state,& finally to feds. The 3 tax entities could fight it out amongst themselves as to who gets what. Why tax at fed level & then filter it back to state/local? Money going through all those hands creates waste.


19 posted on 04/15/2014 7:28:54 AM PDT by oldtech
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

How many of you live in a state where the residents are abused for their political actions by their state sales tax department?

That should give you a clue as to how to reform the federal tax system.


20 posted on 04/15/2014 7:41:59 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dubh_Ghlase
Close it...all of it. Go to flat tax...problem fixed...easy-peesy.

What? A flat tax is still an income tax. Most of the IRS code is about what is and is not taxable income, and that will not change with a flat tax.

As long as we have an income tax, we will have the IRS and their proctology practice.

21 posted on 04/15/2014 9:01:26 AM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
I've seen a tax plan put forward by someone else on here, maybe a year or so ago. Eliminates the individual from Federal taxes entirely, and I think it's a great idea. Don't remember who/where it was posted (forgot to copy that data), but here ya go:


How about we eliminate the Federal tax and replace it with representative apportionment.

1) Congress determines the amount of taxes to be collected
2) The amount is split into two equal pots - one for the Senators and one for the Representatives
3) The pot for the Senators is divided by 100 to determine the per Senator tax bill.
4) The pot for the Representatives is divided by 435 to determine the per Representative tax bill
5) The treasury then calculates the tax liability for each state by multiplying the per Senator amount by 2 and adds to that amount the per Representative amount, calculated as the number of representatives times the per representative amount
6) That total tax liability is then divided into quarterly amounts and communicated to each state.
7) States are then free to determine for themselves what is the best tax collection method for their citizens
8) States which are more than one quarter behind are prohibited from paying their State legislature or Governor their state salaries
9) States that are more than two quarters behind are no longer allowed a vote in committee
10) States that are more than three quarters behind are no longer allowed a vote on the floor
11) States that are more than four quarters behind will have a garnishment of all tax revenues to the State



The only issues I really see are:
- Senators get half the pot. This really unfairly burdens small states with few Reps, as their 2 Sens would inflate their bill greatly. Better to just split the total pot by 535.
- Would really require repeal of the 17th.
- Dems (when in charge) would need to submit a budget. You could argue, however, that as long as no budget has been passed for the year, that the States need pay no taxes until a budget is fully approved.
22 posted on 04/15/2014 9:20:21 AM PDT by Svartalfiar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog

Why would you have to prove you’ve paid sales tax on anything? The Sales Tax is collected at the point of sale of all new finished goods. You buy new goods, you pay the tax. You buy used goods, it’s already been paid (when it was sold new), so no record needed.
The collection mechanism is already in place via the State Tax Collection authority. The accounting is the same. Businesses remit in the same process as today, and the State makes the split and remits to fedgov.
IRS not needed.
April 15th is just another day.

And, the taxpayers can (within reason) vote with their pocketbooks, again.


23 posted on 04/17/2014 7:44:10 PM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2016; I pray we make it that long.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: PubliusMM

The infernal revenue service will start making you prove you paid sales tax on everything in your home because of the massive underground economy that will spring up do to the 30% sales tax that hack who wrote that book wants to impose onto us. The next thing that will happen is all cash transactions over a certain amount will become a felony. Cash would eventually be banned because it would be deemed the tool of tax cheats.

The fools pushing for that scam are playing with matches in pool of gasoline.


24 posted on 04/18/2014 7:28:54 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog

Orangedog, do you seriously think an underground economy does not currently exist? One that has as it’s goal the avoidance of income taxes? Really?

What about the whole illegal drug market? The billions of dollars in income go untaxed. At least under the FairTax, those dollars would be more likely to be counted and would contribute to the tax pool. Even drug pushers buy groceries, clothes, and appliances. Even drug kingpins buy cars, furniture, houses, and on and on and on.

That’s just one example.

I think you’re exaggerating the outcome. The IRS would NOT be needed in the FairTax model because the tax collection and distribution would happen at the state level, which is already established to handle and manage a consumption tax model.


25 posted on 04/24/2014 8:16:43 PM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2016; I pray we make it that long.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: PubliusMM
Yeah, you're right. The fedgov and its support mechanism, the IRS will just say "Aw shucks...guess we're just gonna go find new jobs in the private sector. You sure showed us!"

Normally I would be happy to let the fairness taxers and con/conners have their plans blow up horribly in their faces, but those fools will be taking me and mine to hell with them in the process so I'll be calling them out for the idiots they are whenever I can.

26 posted on 04/26/2014 6:29:39 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson