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Putin: Ukraine’s radical escalation puts it on edge of civil war
RT ^ | 4-11-2014 | RT

Posted on 04/15/2014 2:07:36 PM PDT by tcrlaf

The sharp escalation of the Ukraine crisis virtually puts the country on the brink of civil war, Russian President Vladimir Putin told German Chancellor Angela Merkel during a telephone call.

Putin and Merkel discussed the upcoming Ukrainian crisis talks between Russia, Ukraine, the EU and the US, scheduled to be held on Thursday in Geneva.

Merkel’s press office noted that, despite some differences of opinion, the upcoming talks were the main focus of the telephone conversation.

(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Russia
KEYWORDS: civilwar; putinisanatheist; putinsbuttboys; russia; russianoccupation; ukraine
The rhetoric is ratcheting up again.
1 posted on 04/15/2014 2:07:36 PM PDT by tcrlaf
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To: tcrlaf

Putin’s rhetoric reminds me of the democrats. It seems the Ukraine people are just sitting there minding their own business, but now that Putin wishes to invade them, they are the extremists for not approving it.


2 posted on 04/15/2014 2:14:04 PM PDT by MNDude
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To: MNDude
It seems the Ukraine people are just sitting there minding their own business

They overthrew their government by force... not sure if that counts as "just sitting there minding their own business".

3 posted on 04/15/2014 2:17:50 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: tcrlaf
Some days I think Putin needs to have an accident.

He's been sending commandos and armed Russian goons into the Ukraine to collapse it, and he'll do the same to the Baltics and Poland. Kind of reminds you of the $60 million gold marks and the special train the Germans gave Lenin to hire an army to take over Russia—to get Russia out of the alliance with England and France.

For Germany, Communism in Russia was just a means to an end. I guess they lived to regret it.

Putie won't stop until somebody stops him—in the personal sense.

4 posted on 04/15/2014 2:21:03 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: tcrlaf

I’m with John Bolton on this, there’s plenty of blame to go around.


5 posted on 04/15/2014 2:55:14 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: All

The Thursday 4-17 date is when the Ukraine are expected to parade their evidence of direct Russian intervention to the UN. Particularly Russian use of specialized forces taking over towns within the Ukraine’s eastern border region which also has potentially huge shale oil deposits.

Probably Putin was attemtpting to leverage to get the meet canceled or limited in scope. Instead he may after a arranging a barrage of Ukrainian attrocities begin blasting over Kremlin news sources which should begin about now.Move in his usefull idiots operating the artillary, tanks and air force who will be doing some blasting away of their own. And attempt to seize the oil soaked territory for his companies before they can stop him.


6 posted on 04/15/2014 3:24:40 PM PDT by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause.Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
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To: tcrlaf
upcoming Ukrainian crisis talks between Russia, Ukraine, the EU and the US, scheduled to be held on Thursday in Geneva.

That could be interesting.

7 posted on 04/15/2014 3:29:27 PM PDT by McGruff
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To: SamuraiScot
"Putie won't stop until somebody stops him—in the personal sense. "

Give Matt Damon a knife and send him in.

8 posted on 04/15/2014 3:29:58 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: tcrlaf

No doubt we’ll have incoming Putinistas to tell us all how this is the fault of neo-cons, the Bilderberg Group, fascists, fiat currency, gold reserves, blah, blah, blah.

Putin is trying to rebuild the Russian empire. Period. He is not our friend and he is not the good guy here. We should be helping Ukraine with arms, intelligence support and tough sanctions against Russia whether the EU likes it or not. The American public may be tired of war, but that is not an excuse for feckless, idiot Obama not to lead and stop Putin in his tracks. If we don’t do it now, we are going to end up in a real shooting war when Putin tries these same tactics in Estonia and maybe even starts threatening Poland.

We know how this is likely to play out. The easier we make these land grabs on Putin, the more he is going to try for.


9 posted on 04/15/2014 3:49:15 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Cementjungle
They overthrew their government by force... not sure if that counts as "just sitting there minding their own business".

It's their government.

It's. Their. Own. Business...whether they were "sitting" there or not.

Putin keep out.

10 posted on 04/15/2014 4:09:09 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Longbow1969
Putin is trying to rebuild the Russian empire. Period. He is not our friend and he is not the good guy here.

Still, it's hard not to be envious of the Russians. They have a totalitarian president who loves his country; we have a totalitarian president who hates his country.

11 posted on 04/15/2014 4:19:47 PM PDT by kevao (Biblical Jesus: Give your money to the poor. Socialist Jesus: Give your neighbor's money to the poor)
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To: MNDude
Putin’s rhetoric reminds me of the democrats. It seems the Ukraine people are just sitting there minding their own business, but now that Putin wishes to invade them, they are the extremists for not approving it.

Actually, Putin has been playing defense since the the February coup overthrew the elected Ukrainian government that had been friendly toward Moscow. Make no mistake about it, that coup was aided by the United States and our NATO allies with the intent of installing a West-friendly government in Kiev that would join NATO. Putin could not allow that to happen, as Russia's strategic naval and air bases in the Crimean peninsula are vital to its southern defense via the Black Sea -- and that's why Moscow immediately occupied Crimea to prevent its bases from falling into NATO's hands.

NATO tried a similar land grab six years ago in Georgia, and Russia thwarted us by invading Georgia and installing a friendlier government in Tbilisi. What many in the West fail to accept is that control of the Black Sea is vital to Russia's strategic defense -- which means Russia must and will do whatever it takes to retain its control. This is not unlike our own longstanding Monroe Doctrine, which declares that any colonization or interference in our hemisphere by a European power is viewed as aggression against the United States. NATO's expansion to Russia's borders is similar to one of our distant enemies signing treaties and basing its forces in Mexico, Quebec and British Columbia.

A little background into NATO's treachery... At the time of Germany's reunification in the early 1990s, NATO promised Russia that it would not expand eastward if Moscow withdrew its troops from former Soviet bloc countries. Then, in two batches in 1998 and 2004, NATO admitted 12 new Central and Eastern European members - right up to the borders of Russia itself. The Atlantic alliance that was founded to defend against Soviet invasion had morphed into an offensive alliance hell-bent on encircling and dominating Russia itself. Moscow pushed back when NATO began courting Black Sea nations, beginning with its Georgian invasion in 2008. NATO's hand was caught in the cookie jar in Tbilisi, just as it is now exposed in Kiev.

Frankly, I don't give a damn. I have nothing against any party in the fight, as it is none of my business. Likewise it is no business of the United States; contrary to all the War Party rhetoric, our security is not threatened one iota by the events along the Black Sea. Unless we choose to stick our nose where it doesn't belong, and we get bitten.

12 posted on 04/15/2014 4:37:53 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: tcrlaf

Yawn...


13 posted on 04/15/2014 4:39:04 PM PDT by the anti-mahdi
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To: FreeReign; Cementjungle
It's their government. It's. Their. Own. Business... whether they were "sitting" there or not. Putin keep out.

Cannot the same thing be said of the United States and NATO? Should we also keep out? Would you take the same position if Russia or China signed treaties with Mexico and the provinces of a divided Canada and based its troops along our borders?

14 posted on 04/15/2014 4:43:33 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine

Truthful post as I have ever read. I also totally agree.


15 posted on 04/15/2014 4:46:41 PM PDT by dforest
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To: Always A Marine
Cannot the same thing be said of the United States and NATO? Should we also keep out?

If Ukraine invites NATO or the US to help defend itself against Russia, that's their right and certainly appropriate.

Would you take the same position if Russia or China signed treaties with Mexico and the provinces of a divided Canada and based its troops along our borders?

Do we threaten Mexico or Canada with annexation? Of course not. Ask that question when we do threaten Mexico and Canada.

16 posted on 04/15/2014 5:17:21 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Always A Marine
NATO tried a similar land grab six years ago in Georgia, and Russia thwarted us by invading Georgia and installing a friendlier government in Tbilisi.

Unbelievable.

If Georgia wants to belong to a defensive pact such as NATO, that's there right.

Meanwhile Moscow invaded Georgia, used Chechyan Muslims to ethnic cleanse Christian Georgians and then annexed Abkazia an N. Ossettia.

BTW they never did "installed" a government in Tbilisi although they have tried.

17 posted on 04/15/2014 5:22:55 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: kevao
They have a totalitarian president who loves his country; we have a totalitarian president who hates his country.

Putin loves his country because it's a totalitarian country. Obama will love this country when he is finished turning it into a totalitarian country.

And he's almost there.

18 posted on 04/15/2014 5:25:17 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

~BTW they never did “installed” a government in Tbilisi although they have tried~

In fact Five Day War was one major point in a Georgian opposition campaigns since 2008. President Saakashvili has lost his last elections, fled Georgia and most of his administration are jailed or wanted by current government.


19 posted on 04/15/2014 6:01:37 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix
BTW they never “installed” a government in Tbilisi although they tried

In fact Five Day War was one major point in a Georgian opposition campaigns since 2008. President Saakashvili has lost his last elections, fled Georgia and most of his administration are jailed or wanted by current government.

No.

Saakashvili served his full second term as president all the way to the end of 2013. The War was in early 2008. He didn't "lose" his last election. He wasn't eligible to run for a third term.

He didn't "flee" Georgia.

Most of his administration isn't jailed or wanted.

Russia didn't "install" a new president in Georgia.

20 posted on 04/15/2014 6:49:36 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
If Ukraine invites NATO or the US to help defend itself against Russia, that's their right and certainly appropriate.

Certainly that's their right, but does it make sense for NATO or the US to go to war on Russia's doorstep on behalf of Ukraine -- a significant portion of which favors an alliance with Russia? That's what is at issue here.

Do we threaten Mexico or Canada with annexation? Of course not. Ask that question when we do threaten Mexico and Canada.

Do the battles of Monterrey, Tabasco, Veracruz and Chapultepec or the American military occupation of Mexico City ring any bells? We invaded Mexico in the 1840s and then "annexed" most of what is now the Western US. And just prior to WWI, President Wilson ordered the US Army into Mexico during the "Punitive Expedition" of 1916-17 -- which was actually our intervention into the Mexican Civil War.

During the War of 1812, we invaded parts of Canada since they were British soil and launching points for British attacks on American territory and shipping. And on many occasions throughout the 19th and 20th Centuries, we have intervened militarily in numerous Central and South American countries when it served our interests.

So Russia must do what we say, and not what we do?

21 posted on 04/15/2014 6:56:27 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine
Do we threaten Mexico or Canada with annexation? Of course not. Ask that question when we do threaten Mexico and Canada.

Do the battles of Monterrey, Tabasco, Veracruz and Chapultepec or the American military occupation of Mexico City ring any bells? We invaded Mexico in the 1840s and then "annexed" most of what is now the Western US.

1840?

It's 2014.

We are making no threats to annex Mexico.

So Russia must do what we say, and not what we do?

You've not made that point.

22 posted on 04/15/2014 7:01:41 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
If Georgia wants to belong to a defensive pact such as NATO, that's there right.

In a court of law, that would be their right. But the real world is not a court of law, so Georgia was forced to fight for that right -- which it did, and lost. Did anybody really expect Russia to tolerate the flag and troops of a hostile alliance on the east coast of the Black Sea? Really?

What is at issue around the Black Sea is not any pure concept of right and wrong -- there is plenty of each on both sides. What is at issue is power politics and the strategic military interests of Russia along its southern borders. Whoever doesn't like it must ultimately either live with it or challenge it on the battlefield. I argue that it is not our fight.

23 posted on 04/15/2014 7:05:51 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: FreeReign
1840? It's 2014. We are making no threats to annex Mexico.

Perhaps we got all the land we wanted back then -- California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado!

Seriously, we aren't making any threats because Mexico has not formed any military alliances with our enemies. If Mexico City made a mutual defense treaty with Beijing and allowed Chinese troops, planes and warships along our border, we might behave differently toward our southern neighbor. And why wouldn't we react to such a threat to our national security?

24 posted on 04/15/2014 7:17:05 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: FreeReign

~No.

Saakashvili served his full second term as president all the way to the end of 2013. The War was in early 2008. He didn’t “lose” his last election. He wasn’t eligible to run for a third term.

He didn’t “flee” Georgia.

Most of his administration isn’t jailed or wanted.

Russia didn’t “install” a new president in Georgia.~

Saakashvili says he will not return to Georgia
http://news.yahoo.com/saakashvili-says-not-return-georgia-160812902.html;_ylt=AwrBEiFGPE5Ts3wA_k7QtDMD

Georgian prosecutors summon ex-president Saakashvili
http://news.yahoo.com/georgian-prosecutors-summon-ex-president-saakashvili-163052716.html;_ylt=AwrBEiFGPE5Ts3wA.k7QtDMD


25 posted on 04/16/2014 1:20:21 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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