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Storm Clouds Gathering: Bundy Ranch – What You’re Not Being Told
SCGNEWS ^ | 14.Apr.2014

Posted on 04/16/2014 3:32:17 AM PDT by dontreadthis

In this we're going to present you with evidence of blatant corruption and criminal activities that anyone, including law enforcement, can easily verify.

But before we go into the details, it's important to acknowledge here, that the political left and the political right are watching this crisis through very different eyes. You on the left saw this old rancher defying the Federal government over cattle grazing fees, with right wing pundits pleading his case, and armed militia moving in to intervene... it probably gave you the impression of Tea Party temper tantrum... with guns. Given some of the personalities who were involved in the media circus surrounding this, that impression is perfectly understandable, but underneath the appearances there is something here that all Americans need to see, whether they consider themselves conservative, liberal or none of the above.

All I ask is that you suspend your preconceived notions of what this crisis was about, for five minutes.

(Excerpt) Read more at scgnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blm; bundy
VIDEO AT SITE
1 posted on 04/16/2014 3:32:17 AM PDT by dontreadthis
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To: dontreadthis

No one in this country will “suspend preconceived notions” at this point. We have come to the place where Solomon splits the baby.


2 posted on 04/16/2014 3:35:22 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: dontreadthis

!


3 posted on 04/16/2014 3:37:08 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun. Right..0'Caligula / 0'Reid? ;-)
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To: dontreadthis
Storm Clouds Gathering: Bundy Ranch –

the reason for the 2nd. Not hunting or target shooting.

4 posted on 04/16/2014 3:48:12 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: sneakers

bttt


5 posted on 04/16/2014 4:01:38 AM PDT by sneakers
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To: dontreadthis

“I fear that all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant.” Admiral Yamamoto after Pearl Harbor

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana


6 posted on 04/16/2014 4:03:43 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners. And to the NSA trolls, FU)
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To: dontreadthis
All we need is somebody in law enforcement with a spine, but that's another story isn't it.

Totally agree.

7 posted on 04/16/2014 4:06:46 AM PDT by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: dontreadthis; All

https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch


8 posted on 04/16/2014 4:09:34 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: dontreadthis

bttt


9 posted on 04/16/2014 4:17:53 AM PDT by sphinx
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To: dontreadthis

One can say all they want to about rumor, unsubstantiated claim, ulterior motives, etc. But when there is documented compelling evidence like the cached pages from the BLM website (removed now), the Chinese connection becomes real.

Further, the investigator’s efforts to document the transformation of the pages, even with looks at Google cache, etc., and seeing even THOSE disappear indicates something most foul is afoot here, Dr. Watson.


10 posted on 04/16/2014 4:25:08 AM PDT by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: dontreadthis

Cattlegate - That’s what this is. If we called the episode with Chris Christie Bridgegate with no evidence other than suspicion, then this event - with evidence - is certainly worthy of an investigation. But who has the political will to take on the most powerful politician in the country? Who? Who?


11 posted on 04/16/2014 4:40:58 AM PDT by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer

Cattlegate
make it stick


12 posted on 04/16/2014 4:43:40 AM PDT by dontreadthis
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To: dontreadthis

The militia are not autonomous, despite such a belief by many at FR.

In the USA, there is only 1 militia per U.S. state, and 1 militia per U.S. territory, and 1 militia for DC.

In general, all non-conscientious-objector, able-bodied men are regarded as a pool from which the militia may be mustered and/or recruited and/or some may volunteer.

We do have the right to keep and bear Arms, but to use martial power lawfully, requires the authority of either the duly-elected state/territory governor, lt. gov., secy of state, attorney gen’l ... or the duly-elected legislature.

Usually the legislature selects or assigns a committee to oversee the matters at hand and respond to the emergency that has caused the people to urge the members of the legislature to order the muster.

The duly-elected state/territory legislative body has the overall authority, and it can order the muster despite all the other elected officials and/or judges.

In general, the proceedings are modeled along the same lines as used by our Continental Congress and the various Committees of Safety within the colonies.

(Massachusetts was the first to choose a Committee of Safety that had authority over its militia.)

The authority to exercise martial power and law enforcement by force, stems from a duly elected body, and we are expected by our Founding Fathers, to adhere to such due process, as they did.

The militia can train, but cannot exercise martial power without the approval of duly-elected civilian authority. That distinguishes the militia from “an armed gang or mob.”

Almost all, if not all, militia in the U.S. are out of the practice of responding to state and local emergencies -— because the traditional musters have waned for a long time, now. The lack of practice, is what leads to errors and missteps, particularly in regard to The Authority for The Militia to Act.

If you volunteer for some emergency, or what you think is an emergency, you have volunteered for service to the needs of the citizens.

If you exercise martial power, you better be prepared to announce the state/local civilian authority that authorizes your actions.

If you volunteer to enforce the local and/or state laws, you better be prepared to accept your role as a sheriff deputy and as much as you are able, pains-taking-ly note how you are following due process. Basically, *you have to* keep a log of your activities, somehow; take notes; record events; do what you can to demonstrate to the local and/or state duly-elected civilian authority (and to judges), that you made a good faith effort to follow the law(s).

If you think that your cause is just, and you are responding to abuse by government, it is in the best interest of the community in which such abuse takes place, that its duly elected civilian authority *under the command of which, you are operating,* is both:

a) opposed to said abuse by government
b) has authorized certain steps to be taken and authorized you to perform those steps

*Then* you are in compliance with the public’s trust.


13 posted on 04/16/2014 5:14:58 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: First_Salute

“If you think that your cause is just, and you are responding to abuse by government, it is in the best interest of the community in which such abuse takes place, that its duly elected civilian authority *under the command of which, you are operating,* is both:

a) opposed to said abuse by government
b) has authorized certain steps to be taken and authorized you to perform those steps

*Then* you are in compliance with the public’s trust.”

Were the actions taken at the Bundy Ranch in compliance with the public’s trust based upon a) and b) that you stated?


14 posted on 04/16/2014 5:24:52 AM PDT by dontreadthis
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To: dontreadthis

The Fed judge that signed this order needs to be brought to heel. When he signed this he knew it wasn’t right and it could blow up into a political hot potato. He wrote it as a permissive order for the BLM to carryout with the Sheriffs help. Given contracts, Federal land, and asset forfeiture it would have been the U.S. Marshall’s Service to service and enforce. But, the judge did not want the court to be involved and therefore gave it to BLM so it would no be seen as a court action. This is telling and this judge should be questioned. Federal judges are political beast. Was he compromised by Dingy Harry? What other similar orders did he sign in the past? Did Harry push his confirmation to the Federal bench through?


15 posted on 04/16/2014 5:44:12 AM PDT by DeWalt (Times are more like they used to be than they are today.)
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To: skinkinthegrass; dontreadthis

No name or source for this article???


16 posted on 04/16/2014 5:48:57 AM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: dontreadthis

Whooooooah, BUNDY!

17 posted on 04/16/2014 5:51:18 AM PDT by Hatteras
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To: dontreadthis
"CattleGATE"
or (preferred) "RustlerGATE".."ReidGATE" (put Reid's name on it :)

18 posted on 04/16/2014 5:56:09 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun. Right..0'Caligula / 0'Reid? ;-)
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To: danamco

this is what is posted at SGH:
http://scgnews.com/who-is-scg


19 posted on 04/16/2014 5:56:52 AM PDT by dontreadthis
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To: First_Salute

“but to use martial power lawfully, requires the authority of either the duly-elected state/territory governor,”

You don’t understand this country or the militia in the slightest. The PEOPLE decide what and who will govern them, not government officials, and your illogical conclusion places the power of the people in the hands of the government.


20 posted on 04/16/2014 6:07:03 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: First_Salute
The rule of law is dead. Therefore your learned discourse is moot. We are at the point in Alas Shrugged where Floyd Ferris explained things to Hank Reardon.

The law is only used to punish political enemies and inconveniently located peasants. Criminals get a free pass, or a seat in the Senate.

21 posted on 04/16/2014 6:21:24 AM PDT by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: Gaffer

As long as Eric Holder is AG and Obastard sits in the White Hut...nothing will happen to Harry Reid


22 posted on 04/16/2014 6:46:41 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (To the left, everything must evidence that this or that strand of leftist theory is true)
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To: dontreadthis

23 posted on 04/16/2014 7:57:04 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: dontreadthis

Can’t figure out who SGH is/are or who’s behind, no names???


24 posted on 04/16/2014 4:43:35 PM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: dontreadthis

That depends upon the decisions and statements of the duly-elected representatives of the county -AND- whether or not, in lieu of the existing, let’s say county commissioners, does a duly-elected Committee of Safety exist in their stead?

Such a Committee of Safety may exist there, but remains out of the news?

There is a basic principle in our law, that civilian authority trumps the exercise of power and moreso trumps the exercise of martial power. We rely on that principle, for our duly-elected representatives to outrank members of our military and to outrank police powers as well.

Thereby, you, as a duly-elected civilian in charge of an office of government that contains a department of military and/or department of police powers, have the *civilian authority* to remove from position the agents and officials of those departments ... and your decision is final, there is no appeal for some “civil servant” when they serve in a capacity of exercising forceful power.

In short, the people, here, are sovereign, intead of some arrogant class in robes and uniforms and/or some groups of armed people exercising martial power without the authorization of duly-elected civilian authority.

The actions taken at the Bundy Ranch may very well be in compliance with the public’s trust ... because of the sentiments of the public ... but officially, it is much better that the public’s sentiment be known and be reflected in the decisions of the existing duly-elected representatives, and if not them, then at the minimum, by a duly-elected Committee of Safety.

If no such civilian authority gives the approval for the exercise of martial power, then the volunteers who show, are as civilians exercising as you would when attempting to help a neighbor ... and the common law applies ... and basically you are attempting to enforce the law.

Let us say, that thankfully no shots are fired, but a group of volunteers apprehended some of the BLM agents during some mixup that could have occurred last Saturday. The volunteers would be affecting citizens arrests and detaining the BLM agents to be handed over -safely- to the local sheriff. It is very important that the volunteers carefully document their actions, effectively as spur-of-the-moment volunteer deputies.

In our country, the people have the right to muster and drill. The people have the right to petition our duly-elected representatives to Order the Muster in expectation that the Militia may exercise martial power for the common safety. The people have the right to petition our duly-elected representatives to appoint from among the members (or all of) the Militia, deputies to enforce the laws and/or reinforce an organization of law enforcement ... or utterly replace an organization of law enforcement.

It’s all up to the people, thru their duly-elected representatives.

That is how we respect adherence to the public trust; and it is what our Founding Fathers both respected and wished for us, should necessity come.


25 posted on 04/16/2014 4:57:14 PM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: First_Salute

very refreshing, thank you


26 posted on 04/16/2014 5:25:12 PM PDT by dontreadthis
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To: First_Salute

Can you cite the sources for all these requirements for militias?

They seem very authoritative. Thanks!


27 posted on 04/16/2014 5:30:25 PM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: First_Salute

So, in order to make a citizens arrest, that citizen has to be a deputy sheriff? Can you cite a source for busy too?

Thanks!


28 posted on 04/16/2014 5:35:23 PM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Triple

You do not have to be a deputy.

You do want to respect due process, same as we expect of any law enforcement officer.

In effect, you act accordingly. You have to remain concious of the fact that you are not authorized to carry a badge, but your duties to uphold the law and respect due process are the same as if you are a deputy.

If you effect a citizens arrest, you are responsible for the well-being of the person(s) whom you arrest. Just as a law enforcement officer is responsible.


29 posted on 04/17/2014 12:47:04 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Triple

That the Militia are answerable to civilian authority is older than the country. Author David Hackett Fischer goes deeper into the details on the Militia, in the immediate time frame of the Battle at Lexington, in 1775, in his book, Paul Revere’s Ride. [See Chapter “The Muster - The Rising of the Militia,” pg. 149.]

Since the formation of the United States from the “united states” in the American Revolution, the level of federal burden or tyranny must affect enough people in a community or State, to compel their elected officials to authorize the Militia to muster for the common defense.

A “well regulated Militia,” that is, “well trained to Arms,” was an expectation that, when so trained, the Militia’s “military discipline” would lend this assembly of able-bodied men to respond to its civilian authorities -— the body of elected law-makers -— the lawful authority to apply force.

Our burden -— seeing as how the socialists certainly do not think it is their burden -— is to make good law [through our duly-chosen representatives] and make it work, and to remind both our neighbors and government of the limits on government.

If we do not understand the Founding Fathers’ and Framers’ original intent in the construction of our Constitution, nor understand that government’s powers are limited by the process of enumerating such powers -— that is, listing such powers -— then our burden is much greater.

These burdens must be addressed, whether or not armed force stikes one as being some sort of solution at this time.

. . .

I do not have readily available, a list of sources. Some are books deep inside an old footlocker. IIRC, the National Rifle Association has a collection of small booklets re the history of the militia. The NRA’s ILA Research & Information Division has a very long list of sources.

From some notes that I found ...

- - -

Military Obligation: The American Tradition. A Compilation of the Enactments of Compulsion From the Earliest Settlements of the Original Thirteen Colonies in 1607 Through the Articles of Confederation, 1789. Compiled by Arthur Vollmer. Volume II of United States Selective Service System, Special Monograph No. 1: Backgrounds of Selective Service. 14 parts. Washington, 1947.

Gleeson, Paul F. “The Newport Light Infantry.” Rhode Island Historical Society, Collections, 33 (1940), 1-13.

Cole, David William. “The Organization and Administration of the South Carolina Militia System, 1670-1783,” Unpublished Ph.D. Dissertation, University of South Carolina, 1953.

Minutes of the Albany Committee of Correspondence, 1775-1778. Edited by James Sullivan. 2 volumes. Albany, 1923-1925.

Burn, Richard. The Justice of the Peace, and Parish Officer. 4 volumes. 13th edition. London, 1776. [1st edition, 1754].

Howard, Simeon. A Sermon Preached To the Ancient and Honorable Artillery-Company, in Boston, New-England, June 7th, 1773. Being the Anniversary of the Election of Officers. Boston, 1773.

Dalton, Michael. Officium Vicecomitum. The Office and Authority of Sheriffs: Gathered Out of the Statutes, and Books of the Common Laws of this Kingdom. London, 1682.

Lambarde, William. The Duties of Constables, Borsholders, Tithing-men, and such other Low Ministers of the Peace. London, 1583.

- - -

Those are examples of sources that can be found, pertaining to the history of the militia and the history of the sheriff “of the peace.”

Please do not think that I’ve read all those; they are examples of the biblio from what I have read; I just scrounged them up quickly, so you would have an idea of the extent and types of sources.


30 posted on 04/17/2014 1:33:23 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Triple
A revision of what I wrote in 2006, here at FR, in response to President Bush's condescending remarks and characterization of Americans as "vigilantes." He was demeaning and apparently intending to discourage the citizens arrests of illegal aliens.

To the contrary, you being vigilant, does not make you a "vigilante" as in some ruffian beating up people; to the contrary, you being vigilant, is one of the reasons we have so many great volunteers mindful of our civic duty to help our neighbors.

Americans have much soverign authority, and we may affect a citizens arrest, but it is not easy. Most of the time, the citizens affecting the arrest make mistakes which may be overlooked by the courts because the citizens intent to uphold the law and get the job done well enough, has "saved the day" and usually somebody's life.

To affect a citizen's arrest, the lawful procedures are nearly the same as they are for a "law enforcement officer."

You do have to read the perp his rights. You must take an audit of the perp's physical and mental condition, and include a list of the perp's property taken into your custody. You must be able to state to the judge, the moment when you saw the perp(s) acknowledge your clear statements of your purposes.

"I saw that the perp acknowledged that I was making an arrest and that I was not a law enforcement agent - that I was affecting a citizens arrest."

You have to clearly state to the judge, that you afforded all the due process that can have been reasonably expected of you in the circumstances.

You are responsible for that perp's safety and well being ... all the way on up to the moment of your handing over the perp(s) to the LEOs of the jurisdiction where you made the arrest. You may be liable, just like an LEO, for the perp's attorney's "coming at you" for screwing up the arrest.

DO NOT impersonate an LEO.

IN GENERAL - the best practice is to NOT go looking for bad guys to arrest.

IN PARTICULAR - the best practice is to alert the LEOs AND take copious notes and film, audio and video recordings.

If you do not get an active, repeat, active, positive response from law enforcement, then contact the news media ... and contact forums on the Internet.

DISCLAIMER: My statements above, about the procedures for making a citizens arrest, are my recollections of some of the training that I had as a federal agent, forty years ago. The statutes and procedures may have changed. Look up the matter yourself. I suggest that you use the above information as a guide, for helping you to figure it out.

31 posted on 04/17/2014 2:42:45 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Triple

More examples ...

Alexander, Arthur J. “Exemption from Militia Service in New York State during the Revolutionary War,” New York History, 27 (1946), 204-212.

Alexander, Arthur J. “Exemption from Military Service in the Old Dominion during the War of the Revolution,” Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, 53 (1945), 163-171.

Alexander, Arthur J. “Pennsylvania’s Revolutionary Militia,” Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, 69 (1945), 15-25.

Anderson, John R. “Militia Law in Revolutionary Jersey,” New Jersey Historical Society, Proceedings, 76 (1958), 280-296; 77 (1959), 9-21.

Ansell, S. T. “Legal and Historical Aspects of the Militia,” Yale Law Journal, 26 (1916-17), 471-480.


32 posted on 04/18/2014 7:08:18 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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