Skip to comments.Cliven Bundy and me: His treatment by the BLM reminds me of my experience with the IRS
Posted on 04/16/2014 9:42:45 AM PDT by Kaslin
Im sure youve heard about this dispute in Nevada, where a rancher named Cliven Bundy was confronted by a virtual army of armed agents from the U.S. Bureau of Land Management. The whole thing is a dispute over very complicated laws concerning grazing rights, and the laws are too confusing for me to sit here and tell you who is right and who is wrong.
But the complicated nature of the law is a huge problem here, as it is when we deal with things like tax law. Thats why I have sympathy for Mr. Bundy. His issue with the BLM reminds me of one I had 20 years ago with the IRS. In both cases, an out-of-control federal agency uses intimidation tactics to accuse you of a violation of laws so complicated no one can even really understand them.
Harry Reid is playing a role here too, and as you might expect, its not on behalf of the private citizen who is crosshairs with the federal government. In his usual matter, Reid recently declared, This is not over. We cant have an American people that just violate the law and just walk away from it, so its not over.
I love what a Bundy family member said about Reid:
He doesnt have enough moral fiber in his bones at all to see what happened, but we the people got together to make something right, and he needs to be kicked out of office even if he is the Senate Majority Leader. It doesnt matter.
Oh yes, sir, I could give you lots of other reasons Harry Reid needs to be gone.
Ive heard conflicting reports that say the Bundys were encouraged by the government over 100 years ago to use that land for cattle grazing, and now the government is coming out saying, oh no, you owe some grazing fees. I dont know what to believe, but I see that the Bundys are standing up against the federal government, and some of their neighbors came to their rescue.
Cliven Bundy described the day when he saw a massive platoon of BLM agents coming over a hill toward him. It was like a war zone.
Im not in Afghanistan, he said. I think Im in Nevada.
The BLM had decided to be heavy handed and use the Bundys to set an example. But some of their neighbors showed up, and they showed up with guns. The cited the Second Amendments statement that we need to maintain a well-regulated militia and these folks were acting as a militia in the defense of their neighbor against government thuggery. Good for them.
So now the BLM say it is going to back off and use judicial and administrative procedures. Thats what they should have done in the first place! You dont converge on a citizen of the country armed with firepower because of a dispute over a very complicated law.
This is the same problem we have with the tax code. The IRS can come at you and demand all kinds of information, and you never know if someone is out of bounds when theyre making these demands.
The IRS has 80,000 ways to intimidate people. The IRS can ask you for more and more and more information in order to intimidate people ad infinitum. You have no idea whether or not they are overstepping their bounds. If you decide to challenge the IRS, youre going to have to pay for that legal challenge. And do you know how theyre going to fight that legal challenge? With our money. And they can drag it out over years, assuming you will just say uncle and give in.
Their audit of me, after I challenged Bill Clinton at a town hall meeting, lasted from 1996 through 1998. It started with them auditing 1994. Then they came back and said they needed to audit me for 1993, as well as 1995. All the while the meter is running on my tax attorney.
Finally they came back and said I owed $1.8 million! I had to make a decision as to whether I would fight this, which I did, and ultimately they dropped the claim, but demanded a penalty for the wrongdoing of which they accused me.
This is not right. People need to follow the law, but when the federal government is using intimidation tactics, all justified by extremely complex laws no one understands, this needs to be reined in. Our representatives in Congress both the House and the Senate should be standing up for citizens when stuff like this happens. If you live in Nevada, I guess you dont have much hope of getting help from Harry Reid.
And from the way these government agencies have been acting lately, it doesnt sound like theyre too intimidated by anyone, nor do they care much about the rights of American citizens.
No wonder people feel they have to come against them with guns. When the government gets like this, what else can you do?
fyi: Two years back I used the Congress funded taxpayer advocate service. What a mistake — They only dragged the problem on for another year and gave me false advice. Thanks for nothing congress.
You are on your own when ANY fed agency targets you.
The byzantine complexity of tax law appears almost intentionally designed so that it can be used as a cudgel against anyone who doesn’t tow the line. Raise your head politically, start making some waves, and expect the bureaucratic state to find some legal excuse to hammer you back down. This is not what America was meant to be!
1. If the People need to follow the law, then our elected representatives need to follow the law as well.
2. The People need to follow a just and righteous law. Not every law passed follows that criteria.
What a bunch of useless frauds! They made mistake after mistake, did nothing but make a few phone calls, elongated by the process by a year and ended up simply saying, "The insurance company sees your issue differently, and since we're not a court, you'll have to bring suit yourself."
“heres no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there arent enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? Whats there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of lawbreakers and then you cash in on the guilt. Now thats the system, . . . thats the game, and once you understand it, youll be much easier to deal with. - Floyd Ferris to Hank Reardon in Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand
Bundy did not violate any law. He would not comply with the regulations arbitrarily enforced by a federal agency.
Cain nails it here. Of course Bundy’s breaking the law - THAT’S THE POINT. The fed overwhelms you with regulations and demands to the point that you are forced to either fight back or give up, go out of business, pay the penalties, etc.
“No wonder people feel they have to come against them with guns. When the government gets like this, what else can you do?”
Not according to our new Messiah Glenn Beck. :-)
Yes. That quote is well known on Free Republic, and it’s true. If I was a government official who lacked morals and wanted to hold onto power, I could easily use our byzantine laws to find some way to persecute my political enemies. It’s almost impossible for someone, especially someone trying to move up politically, to avoid violating some sort of rule or regulation.
Again, I say that this is not what America was meant to be! I know we aren’t and weren’t a perfect nation, but the American ideals of liberty, small government, individual morality, and self reliance were worth working for. Too many people are eager to sacrifice real liberty (being a libertine is not free) for what? So we can become just another socialized Euro-state? What am I saying? We already ARE a socialized country operating off the hard work of previous generations.
Take a look at the geriatric Senate! I have nothing against old people. I’m not young myself, but c’mon. Tell me we can’t do better than the aristocratic dinosaurs we keep sending to D.C.!
You know what really, really saddens me? That no matter how much I and other FReepers try to educate ourselves and others, the vast majority of Americans are still on cruise control. Our handful of votes for liberty are drowned out by people who either buy the Democrat shuck and jive about some “War on Women” or rampant racism, or people who just don’t care enough to learn about the person they’re endorsing with their votes. We virtually all complain about D.C. and its crappy leaders, but WE KEEP ELECTING THEM!
You make a very good argument and if you will allow, I will add on a very sad statistic about our General Election. BHO was elected by 51% of the voting public. OR, should I say 51% of those eligibile voters that showed up? An estimated 55% of those eligible to vote actually did. That means roughly 28% of eligible voters but the blamer-in-chief back in office. Numbers wise, out of 153 million eligible voters, just over 84 million got off of their couches and went to a booth and just under 43 million voted "D". The blame lies at the feet of those that did not vote as well as the Obamatons.
I guess it’s a symptom of our relative wealth and ease that far too many Americans can’t bother themselves to actually vote. Forgive me if I resent them. I guess some of them won’t care until it crashes down, but by then it will be too late. Too many others have bought the media’s propaganda hook, line and sinker! How many still get all their “news” from the alphabet networks? They need to wake up!
I mean we have an administration that is using government agencies to persecute political enemies! I know. The outrages come so fast and furious (pun intended) these days, it’s almost impossible to get fired up over another one, but geesh! What will it take for Americans to actually give a crap about the direction we’re heading?!?!
The left is merrily stacking courts all over this country with political activists. They selectively apply the law to punish political enemies and use “executive discretion” to ignore/change laws they don’t like. They funnel buckets of taxpayer money to their corporate friends and leftist NGOs and use the regulatory state to wrap their claws around virtually every industry, to include stepping between us and our doctors! Then some of the WORST offenders (Harry Reid) have the gall to admonish us that we can’t just break the law and walk away! Yet, Americans sleep...
Someone like Cliven Bundy has little or no chance against something like that, because he’s not an aggrieved minority or an insider, and he hasn’t paid off (ahem...donated piles of money to) the political class. I have no idea how many rules and regulations govern running a ranch and/or grazing cattle on federal land, but I’m certain the bureaucrats can find some pretext to abuse Mr. Bundy if he won’t submit to the federal behemoth.
And again, Americans sleep...
The above map details the percentage of state territory owned by the federal government.
TAXES AND A CIVILIZED SOCIETY
4 ½ minute video
Looks like the West isn’t so free after all.
Why can't we have somebody like this running our nation?
Either that or they are distracted. This Prick-In-Chief is the hip-hop president for a reason. Just as Nero discovered that Romans were most easily pacified through chariot races and gladiators, BHO knows that the more mind-numbing entertainment, the more sheep he regins over. Far too many people are mesmorized by the Kardashians to be bothered with the knowledge of whom they have as their elected representative.
This country is indeed headed for another war and blood shall run in the streets for a purge will be necessary. (For all of you FBI/NSA folks peeking in, I am not the one calling for it, merely predicting the inevitible.)
Maybe then they will awake.
There has never been a better time to take out the IRS.
THE FAIR TAX WOULD BE THE BIGGEST TRANSFER OF POWER FROM DC BACK TO THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRYS HISTORY.
The FairTax is replacement, not reform. It replaces federal income taxes including personal, estate, gift, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes.
The FairTax brings jobs back to America by allowing companies to operate on our soil tax free rather than paying the current corporate income tax of 35 percent. Under the FairTax, various economists have predicted higher economic growth ranging from 7 to 14 percent over the current system, more jobs, and higher wages.
With the penalty for working harder and producing more removed, Americans are free to keep every dollar they earn, and a new era of economic growth and job creation is unleashed. Hidden taxes are history, Americans are able to save more, and businesses invest more. Capital formation, the real source of job creation and innovation, is facilitated. Gross domestic product (GDP) increases by an estimated 10.5 percent in the first year alone. The FairTax as proposed raises the economys capital stock by 42 percent, its labor supply by 4 percent, its output by 12 percent, and its real wage rate by 8 percent.
As U.S. companies and individuals repatriate, on a tax-free basis, income generated overseas, huge amounts of new capital flood into the United States. With such a huge capital supply, real interest rates remain low. Additionally, other international investors will seek to invest here to avoid taxes on income in their own countries, thereby further spurring the growth of our own economy.
This discussion thread just caught my eye...Does anyone here really know why Glen Beck had a problem with all those folks coming to Bundy’s defense, both armed and not armed???
I mean really???
I wonder what/where Beck’s threshold, or line in the sand really is???
I do believe the government backing off till the heat comes down is a setup for additional physical efforts to squeeze the Bundy’s and anyone else in the way out of that area...
I would not be out of line if the plans were to setup a situation where the government with the aid of the media mis-inform and out and out lie about any future violence and blame the Bundy’s and or the “armed” civilians opposing this intrusive government action...
I would be very careful of that extreme probability/potential situation...
Just my opinion...
[ fyi: Two years back I used the Congress funded taxpayer advocate service. What a mistake They only dragged the problem on for another year and gave me false advice. Thanks for nothing congress.
You are on your own when ANY fed agency targets you. ]
You are almost better off dropping off the grid if government ever targets you, get a dark tan, change your last name to something that ends in “ez” and learn enough spanish to fill out forms in espanol...
[ This discussion thread just caught my eye...Does anyone here really know why Glen Beck had a problem with all those folks coming to Bundys defense, both armed and not armed???
I mean really???
I wonder what/where Becks threshold, or line in the sand really is??? ]
It makes me uneasy...
On one side I wonder if it is because of some insider knowledge that Glenn has that the FedGov is actually the one Itching for a fight and Glenn feels he needs to diffuse it...
On the other side, I have to wonder if Glenn has been told by someone higher up not to get involved in this otherwise they will destroy him...
And on the other side maybe he thinks we should be playing it safe until the results of the 2014 election...
Or he has just gone crazy by drinking too much of his Ghandi/MLK kool-aide...
You know why he was driven out, and some in here bought the lies about him from the left. He was my first choice, but I could never vote for him because he dropped out before the primaries even started
When the government gets like this, what else can you do?
Ask the Romney campaign...
He can't be crazy.
He decided, of his own free will, to become a MORMON.