Ukrainian Forces Kill 3 Pro-Russian Demonstrators

NY Times ^ | 4/17/14 | ANDREW E. KRAMER

[jimbo123]

-snip-

The operation that the government said would confront pro-Russian militants in the east unraveled Wednesday with the entire contingent of 21 armored vehicles surrendering or retreating.

-snip-

One of the armored columns stopped when a crowd of people, many of whom were drinking or yelling taunts, gathered on the road before them. Later in the day its commander agreed to hand over the soldiers’ assault rifles to the very separatists they were sent to fight.

Another column from the same unit, the 25th Dnipropetrovsk paratrooper brigade, surrendered not only its weapons but also the tracked and armored vehicles it had arrived in, letting militants park them as trophies, under a Russian flag, in a central square.

A pro-Russian militant climbed into the driver’s seat of one of the vehicles and spun it around on its tracks, screeching and roaring, to please the watching crowd.

The events on Wednesday underscored the weakness of the new Ukrainian government as it begins critical talks about the country’s future with the United States, Russia and the European Union in Geneva on Thursday. Officials unable to exercise authority over their own military seem increasingly powerless to contain a growing rebellion by pro-Russian militants.

[jimbo123]

As always, the NYT buries the lede.

[elhombrelibre]

It’s very unfortunate, but it was inevitable. The ROE has changed, and the provocateurs will not be able to scarve up a tank with a wee little protest. Since the Putinista goal is to ultimately steal as much of Ukraine as possible, they’re insurrectionist. When they use violence, they’ll be dealt with as foreign enemies. Still, this is what Putin wants so he and his cronies can steal more of the Ukraine. I know some FReepers think this is only about sodomy and Soros, but it’s really about Putin and Putinism.

[grania]

It was unbelievably dumb of the pro-Kiev military to shoot to kill on the eve of the talks. I can’t see that Kiev has done ANYTHING that would encourage the rest of the country to side with the coup government.

[Tallguy]

“A pro-Russian militant climbed into the driver’s seat of one of the vehicles and spun it around on its tracks, screeching and roaring, to please the watching crowd.”

... thus indicating that these “militants” have more than a passing familiarity with Russian-built APC’s. Ya think these “militants” might actually be Spetnatz troops?

When is the Media going to buy a clue?

[McGruff]

A government firing on it’s own people. Glad that couldn’t happen here.

[jimbo123]

Federalization is going to pass everywhere except for Western Ukraine since most of the rest of Ukraine doesn’t want to be part of Russia.

But they don’t want Soros/Kerry’s Banderist clowns in Kiev to be running things either.

Germany and Russia are calling the shots now and federalization will be on the ballot.

[wetphoenix]

~... thus indicating that these “militants” have more than a passing familiarity with Russian-built APC’s. Ya think these “militants” might actually be Spetnatz troops?~

Every village idiot in former Soviet Union and most of the Eastern Europe is a trained soldier to some degree. As far as late 1980s you had to hit a man-sized target with AK from 150 yards in full-auto just to graduate a secondary school and be eligible for high school or college in Russia or Ukraine. And it was only one of many military-related tests aka getting ‘GTO certified’. While you were taught duck-and-cover they taught their kids basic urban warfare or how to aim a rifle at moving helicopter to hit it as part of a school program. AKs and training RPG units were standard gear at school gyms.
And most farmers who are licensed to operate agricultural machinery are trained as a drivers of military tracked vehicles by the military in that same schools for government dime and counts as reserve tank drivers for a war events.
All of the above are primary reasons why civil wars were so bloody in that part ofmthe world since the fall of communism.
None are civilians.

[Ivan Mazepa]

Russian specnaz storming Ukrainian military bases and they dare to shoot back, I’m shocked.

[Tallguy]

“Every village idiot in former Soviet Union and most of the Eastern Europe is a trained soldier to some degree. As far as late 1980s you had to hit a man-sized target with AK from 150 yards in full-auto just to graduate a secondary school and be eligible for high school or college in Russia or Ukraine.”

I take your point. However these are allegedly Russian-nationals living inside the Ukraine — separate from Mother Russia politically & militarily for over 20 years. Most of those that would have been in the old Soviet Army would be, what, in their early 40’s (best case).

I’ve seen the photos of these masked, cammie-wearing gunmen. Those are some bad dudes in peak physical condition, not some rag-tag pickup football team toting AK’s.

A handful of more recent Russian-army vets might have emigrated to the eastern Ukraine, and surely it’s possible that one of them might be demonstrating the “Tokyo Drift” on a Ukrainian BMP, but putting little events like this into the overall context and you have 1 big false-Flag operation going on.

[wetphoenix]

~I take your point. However these are allegedly Russian-nationals living inside the Ukraine — separate from Mother Russia politically & militarily for over 20 years. Most of those that would have been in the old Soviet Army would be, what, in their early 40’s (best case).~

~A handful of more recent Russian-army vets might have emigrated to the eastern Ukraine, and surely it’s possible that one of them might be demonstrating the “Tokyo Drift” on a Ukrainian BMP, but putting little events like this into the overall context and you have 1 big false-Flag operation going on.~

I might be wrong but the majority of protesters looks like 40 something to me, contrary to Crimea. And I’m not sure if an old Soviet practice of universal military training at school is not still in place in Ukraine. At least both Ukraine and Russia are still have a draft military and every able male has to serve a couple years or face felony charges for dodging.

I can’t 100% exclude there are Russian forces in E Ukraine but I’m yet to see evidence to the contrary. Even EUSSR spy chief said there are none.

[wetphoenix]

~I’ve seen the photos of these masked, cammie-wearing gunmen. Those are some bad dudes in peak physical condition, not some rag-tag pickup football team toting AK’s~

Not as many of them as in Crimea, none are wearing Russian uniform, and even the firearms aren’t Russian standard issued.

[Tallguy]

Hmmm! I’ll have to compare the Crimea & eastern Ukraine gunmen photos to see if I can detect a difference.

[wetphoenix]

~http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8mywTyAhlJM~

Here is a video of a typical skirmish between Ukrainian military and protesters. I could only find a single person distantly alike to a Russian regular for the whole video.