Skip to comments.NATO Commander Offers Evidence of Russian Troops in Ukraine
Posted on 04/18/2014 1:32:13 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
...Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday again vigorously denied Western claims that Russian forces were operating in eastern Ukraine. But he also finally confirmed what had long been suspected and that he had repeatedly denied: that the well-armed forces with no insignia on their uniforms that took control of Crimea last month were in fact Russian troops.
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I totally believe him and so does anyone with a brain, but so what? Everyone knows that Putin invaded Crimea with special forces that wore uniforms without insignia. Everyone knows that Russian agents are destabilizing East Ukraine using commandos and rent a mobs with Russian weapons. Calling them out is not enough, we are way past criticing Putin, what will be done?
The “so what” is exposing Putin as the lying invading criminal that he is. You say everyone knows, but that is different from everyone has to admit (to be credible and taken seriously).
Your reputation precedes you.
Putin, Obama, Clinton, Kerry...What difference does it make...they’re all liars.
Putin, Obama, Clinton, Kerry...What difference does it make...they’re all liars.
And what is America going to do about it?
Nothing. Putin successfully bluffed his way into Crimea. And if he takes over eastern Ukraine by stealth, will they lose sleep over it in Washington?
America is exposing Putin for the creepy lying thug he is.
Difference is Vlad invades neighboring countries for territorial gain.
He only bluffed you. Most everyone else is fully aware of what he's doing.
How is Ukraine in our National Interest.
If Europe is worked, let Europe do something. Ask the Germans—I am sure they have maps and plans.
Oooohhhh.....and I will bet Putin is so afraid.
“America is exposing Putin for the creepy lying thug he is.”
I think we can enhance this...
“America is exposing Obama for the creepy lying thug he is.”
That is why Freedom Loving People turn to America.
If you follow the news even a little bit, you would know Europe has imposed sanctions much like America did.
America is exposing Obama for the creepy lying thug he is.Let's go all in...America is exposing Obama and Putin for the creepy lying thugs they are.
That's the best defense you can come up with for Putin? LoL!
How is Ukraine in our National Interest.
You are asking the wrong question. How is an aggressive and empire building Russia in our National Interest? How is Russian support of thr Iranian nuclear program in our national interest? How is Russian destabilization of NATO countries in our national interest? How is Russian threats of economic warfare in our national interest?
You can be an hobbyist isolationist if you choose. Unfortunately, eventually everybody on Main Street USA will pay if bad actor countries are giving free reign.
I don’t know about “most”.
But one can’t ignore the fact that the same scenarios happened in Crimea, which Putin has now admitted he lied repeatedly about.
I think you have failed to see that Mainstreet USA is already under siege, but not because of Russia. When a government becomes a police state, uses propaganda and regulation, mandates, registrations, agencies of government for punishment, you are no longer talking about freedom. You are denying what is the near threat for something that one day could be if you fail to take back your own house.
The US has no moral authority anymore, especially since Obama. We have become a new bad actor that uses world wide community organizing that has torn the world to shreds and set up this stage of misery.
I feel bad for Ukraine, because they have no good options. Either way, they will not enjoy real freedom which the US used to guarantee and fight for all over the world.
What are we supposed to say now? “hey Ukraine, come and be as free as what we have left of freedom”?
Of course they do - the Germans conquered Ukraine twice in the last 100 years. Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire for hundreds of years. As sympathetic as I am for the Ukrainians, it's hard to see this being the business of the European Union, let alone the United States. Russian reluctance to have NATO troops at its doorstep is hardly irrational.
Let the Ukrainians do something. So far they are making the ARVN look competent in comparison.
I'm most certainly not an isolationist. But Russia is a huge, somewhat sparsely populated country surrounded by strong, dangerous neighbors. For hundreds of years Russia has been very sensitive to border states that it sees as potential threats. At the moment it has three threats: (1) the European Union and NATO, which could be at its doorstep if Ukraine continues to move towards the West (just as would have happened w/Georgia prior to the 2008 war), (2) Islamic extremism both within Russia and in the neighboring Stans and (3) China. Russia has been actively threatened by #1 and #2 -- and simply lacks the ability to do much of anything about #3 except beef up its nuclear deterrent. However angry Putin's actions make us, they are consistent with a long Russian tradition of perceived self interest in creating buffer states between it and potential external threats.
To be clear, I don't think Russia's invasion of Ukraine is morally defensible but it's neither surprising nor a sign that Putin is about to send tank brigades into the Fulda Gap and start World War III.
“That’s the best defense you can come up with for Putin? LoL!”
There is no excuse for Putin or Obama. But let’s be fair and name both thugs.
At the moment it has three threats: (1) the European Union and NATO, which could be at its doorstep if Ukraine continues to move towards the West (just as would have happened w/Georgia prior to the 2008 war)
Hogwash. NATO is only on Russia’s border because Russians have a nasty habit of periodically murdering their neighbors. Naturally, the neighboring countries of Russia do not want to be under Russian hegemony. We can see how much of a threat the EU is to Russia. Putin is busy committing war crimes, invading his neighbors with a fifth column and the EU has done NOTHING.
I'm not going to disagree, but I'd note two things: (1) that trait is hardly unique to the Russians (the English, Japanese, Chinese, Germans, etc. also have rather unneighborly histories; (2) other countries have a long history of invading Russia or, failing that, intervening in its internal political conflicts.
Naturally, the neighboring countries of Russia do not want to be under Russian hegemony.
Of course they don't. But so what? It's never easy to be a smaller weaker country next to a stronger, larger one. Just ask the Poles, the Mexicans or the Irish.
Putin is busy committing war crimes, invading his neighbors with a fifth column and the EU has done NOTHING.
So what would you propose? Sending German Panzer divisions to Kharkov? Because they've tried that before.
America is done being the world police. The EU has over three times the population and even more times the money than Russia does. If they want to fight about Ukrainian, no one is holding them back.
This is not a matter for the USA to get involved in.
True...but then so is everybody else in this fray....there are no good guys in this fiasco on any side. Never was.
Both Russia and the EU/US have been meddling in Ukraine for years.....politically and otherwise. It should surprise no one all sides have troops on the ground in one form or another...in uniform and out...assisting which ever side they are attempting to influence, and in some cases often..lead.
Sadly so...this has caused peoples death...it always does.
Good post...I think it was obvious from the beginning that EU and US would have little ability or desire to do much about this. Unfortunately, and once again, Ukrainians failed to recognize that they themselves have to gain their freedom...and they will never have the financial backing nor military to accomplish that.
So, why not start with the "bad actors" in the Africa and work our way North to the Ukraine?
I figure if we stop the routine slaughter of Christians by Muzzies in Africa and the Arab countries by the time we get to the Ukraine they'll have gotten the hint that we're willing to fight for our values.
Funny how little Hell raising there is over the US arming Iz Lame scum in Syria who are murdering whole little towns full of Christians but there's all this deep concern for the Ukraine. What's with that, only what the EU wants is worth defending or does dealing with reality interfere with getting the propaganda message out?
As we speak Nigerians are fighting Muzzies tooth and nail to keep terror from destroying their freedom and starting the massive murder of Christians, but Ukrainians obviously want someone else to do it for them.
As for aid, sell them all the ammo they want. Shucks, I'd even go along with selling them stockpiles the BLM, HHS, Toilet Inspectors, and other benign US agencies have at half the original price. Jumping into the Ukraine is fiddling while Rome burns, as they say. After all, the EU was started with the idea of being the primary power center in Europe to replace US influence there so let them get on with it.
Let the Ukrainians fight to the last drop of someone elses' blood, not ours.
“Calling them out is not enough, we are way past criticing Putin, what will be done?”
Nothing as far as I can tell, if Russia want’s Crimea again, Russia is going to get Crimea again. I don’t know of any treaty that obligates us to do a thing about it.
If the Ukraine wants our help they better find up a treaty to oblige us. Otherwise its none of our business.
I think the only reason the media cares about Crimea is it illustrates yet again just how much of a completely incompetent failure Obama is.
That being said I am hard pressed to care less. As far as I know we ain’t got no defense treaty with the Ukraine, that means in no uncertain terms ITS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!
There is only one place in the world where its right to fight for your own values, and that is over your own home. Russia ain’t threatening any of theses united States nor are they threatening anyone we (by treaty) are obligated to help to defend. Therefore it is none of our business.
“America is done being the world police. The EU has over three times the population and even more times the money than Russia does. If they want to fight about Ukrainian, no one is holding them back.
This is not a matter for the USA to get involved in.”
I agree, I really don’t see what is in it for us to get between Russia and the Ukraine.
Do we want Crimea? No
Do we have a defense pack with the Ukraine? No
As far as I can tell no, so getting involved would at best be to help reinforce some screwed up notion of global order to be imposed upon all other party’s and payed for by we the overburden Taxpayer.
To be blunt there is nothing in the Ukraine for us, worth the cost of getting involved. I suspect the EU will make the same judgement even thou this aggression takes place right on their door step. Just like they have done other time.
Althou if I were them I would strengthen Nato and do some military exercises to make sure Putin knows we will defend our own.
If I were President, I would tell Europe — “Act like men and stop crying to us to protect you from a bully that is less than a third your size.” Europe just wants to relax and not have any consequences for their actions, like spending nothing on defense. Until they start getting scared that they will experience some consequences, they will carry on. That are like lazy gigolos lolling around our mansion and then asking us to get in a brawl with some outlaw motorcycle gang they owe money to.
You’re missing the point. Western Europe has invaded Russia repeatedly over the centuries. In some of our lifetimes, Germany invaded Russia with an explicit, openly stated plan to genocide the Russian people and seize their land. Napoleon invaded Russia under the banner of a universalist liberal ideology that sounded a lot like Obama-ese. It was invaded by European countries several other times in between and for centuries and centuries, parts of Russia were occupied by various European empires and kingdoms.
Russia is always going to be wary about Europe because Europe is where most of the invaders have came from, especially the recent ones.
When we discuss America’s goals and strategy, we have to deal with reality as it is. Part of that entails understanding our opponents. One of the problems with the neocon mindset is that it is so drenched with moralism, emotion and self-righteousness, that it prevents an objective understanding of things. Neocons are always screwing up, as they have in Ukraine now, by not understanding other actors and making faulty predictions about what effect their policies will have. Everything they did was banked on the assumption that Putin would allow rather militant and well armed “protesters,” with heavy American backing, including strong propaganda operations, to overthrow a democratically elected president who was Russia’s ally.
They failed miserably. You better believe that everyone in service to America at the non-political/propaganda level, especially in the military and anti-terrorism communities, is mad as hell at Nuland and these other clowns for causing this to blow up and take eyes of al-Qaeda. Just like in Iraq, they got us into a big jam we could have chosen to avoid, which is priority to number one when you are in several jams already.
The status quo in Ukraine before the coup was perfectly acceptable to us. Everyone who was involved in this scheme should be tarred and feathered, just like the Iraq war morons who delivered the whole country to the Democrats by rolling the dice and losing it all when they could have just walked past the casino.
Honestly I don’t think there is a genuine threat from Russia or Putin at this time.
Putin may be an opportunistic but hes not stupid, he wont pick a fight he can’t win, and he can’t win a fight with us or the EU. Putin is clearly just going for the low hanging fruit and in the process demonstrating the absurdity of the leftist idea of “international law”.
This I am enjoying to no end.
your quote ‘’a democratically elected president who was Russias ally.’
Little Wrong- Yanno-asshole was a russian puppet, with his
inner circle and family looted the country of 70 billion
dollars....half of which went back to russia..
As far as neocons starting it, it was soros and some of the lib globalists who supported it, pushed it.
He and all of his inner circle are in russia now stirring
up things, His son in UK is all of a sudden a billionare
Does anyone care what the Russians do in Ukraine? Ill bet you that no more than 6% of actual US citizens give a crap in Hell. I could care less!!
“This is not a matter for the USA to get involved in.”
It is certainly the matter for the US to get involved in.
Just not with troops. Russia is a national security threat (it amazes me that the isolationist fringe of the conservative movement repeatedly asks, “what is our national interest?”, or more ignorantly state, “we have no security interest”)
Russia is an historical enemy. It supports the Iranian and other rogue nations with ballistic missile technology and other inflammatory systems. More importantly, due to its recent weakness in geopolitical and economic interactions it has become more totalitarian, more oppressive and more aggressive toward its border states. ** Nations are moving away from Russia, not to align with the West or the EU, but to get protection from a desperate Russia.
There are a multitude of non military avenues to punish Russia for its illegal actions and annexation.
“Both Russia and the EU/US have been meddling in Ukraine for years.....politically and otherwise. It should surprise no one all sides have troops on the ground in one form or another.”
LOL. Nobody is meddling but Russia. And there are no western troops in Ukraine.
So, no, don't ask me to worry about Russia, a country that supports religion, stands up to homosexuals, has a flat tax, and an economy that's improving.
If the US would butt out, perhaps the EU would become more responsible for what's happening. The US is enabling Europe to not defend itself, while we're not defending our own homeland. If the US would get out of it, everyone would probably be better off if Germany, Poland, and Russia figured out what to do about Ukraine, which by all accounts has failed at nationhood.
“So, no, don’t ask me to worry about Russia”
I never ask an isolationist conspiracy type to worry about anything. It’s best just to correct them.
“a country that supports religion, stands up to homosexuals, has a flat tax, and an economy that’s improving.”
LOL. I see you have bought the Putin Propaganda. Putin is about as religious as Hitler was. Despots use religion and manipulate with religion to gain power or influence, they don’t believe in it or God. Russia’s paltry economy is improving due to its relative weakness and the price of oil going up. Go to Russia if you love it so. Just make sure you keep supporting Putin for his 16th year in office. But if you are wrong, you will be at the whim and mercy of the next tyrant to take over.
“If the US would butt out, perhaps the EU would become more responsible”
I don’t have to wonder. You know nothing about Europe.