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Western state officials: Take control of federal lands within states
Idaho State Journal ^ | April 19, 2014 | AP

Posted on 04/19/2014 9:10:43 AM PDT by ponygirl

Edited on 04/19/2014 9:19:27 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) ó Officials from nine Western states say itís time they take control of federal lands within their borders.

The lawmakers and county commissioners met at Utahís Capitol on Friday to discuss their joint goal of wresting oil-, timber- and mineral-rich lands away from the feds.


(Excerpt) Read more at idahostatejournal.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americanwest; blm; bundy; bundyranch; federallands
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It's time.
1 posted on 04/19/2014 9:10:43 AM PDT by ponygirl
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To: ponygirl

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/104/hr3769/text


2 posted on 04/19/2014 9:13:10 AM PDT by crz
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To: ponygirl

The Calf That Roared


3 posted on 04/19/2014 9:13:53 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: ponygirl

Yes!


4 posted on 04/19/2014 9:14:06 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: ponygirl

It’s time for the states to take control of everything the federal government has put its tentacles into.

It has abused its power so thoroughly. It is now time for it to be rendered powerless.


5 posted on 04/19/2014 9:16:19 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: ponygirl

We need to say the same here in the east as well. They aren’t taking big chunks like out west but 50 acres here and 100 acres there are adding up.


6 posted on 04/19/2014 9:17:38 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ponygirl
There was a reason for forming states and self governing was the biggest part of it.

As Towns grew, the local people took care of matters as needed.

The Feds were to protect us, deal with foreign powers and coin money.

In 1790, the Feds stole the states right to deal with the Indians...and caused all kinds of havoc.

Now, the Feds are into every damn thing. School lunch programs is a good example of Feds gone crazy!!

7 posted on 04/19/2014 9:18:23 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: ponygirl

It’s rather perverse that the feds get money from the use of these lands and then consider it “red state welfare” when they give a portion of it back.


8 posted on 04/19/2014 9:19:52 AM PDT by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: ponygirl

The king is not about to give up his forest without a fight...


9 posted on 04/19/2014 9:24:50 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: ponygirl

Kick the feds out of the west, take our states back! EVERYTHING the federal government touches devolves into a corrupted, greed fueled train wreck, where the people end up being the losers.


10 posted on 04/19/2014 9:26:44 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: Sacajaweau

Since we are now so indebted to foreign nations (China)by borrowing so much money, does the Federal government put these lands up as collateral, and then allow it to be sold to lower our debt?


11 posted on 04/19/2014 9:28:35 AM PDT by COUNTrecount (There's no there there.)
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To: factoryrat

The Roosevelt era (Teddy)...was the period where this protection of the new western states started to take place. It is true...most states had mafia-like politics in place and probably at that point in time...needed some federal protection. Since the 1960s....I’d say that this gimmick is mostly done and it’s more likely to find mafia-like politics at the national level....than at the state-level.

My humble guess is that there will be some rush now to proclaim twenty-odd new national parks....but beyond that...the ninety-percent of federal property out there....ought to revert back to the states and be put up for auction.


12 posted on 04/19/2014 9:30:15 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: ponygirl
The BLM needs to be replaced with a consortium of RealtorsTM.
13 posted on 04/19/2014 9:30:19 AM PDT by shove_it (long ago Orwell and Rand warned us of Obama's America)
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To: ponygirl

When you ask who would be better stewards of our lands in the west, the feds or the states, just remember Harry Reid. That one name alone should convince you the feds need to cede control back th the states.


14 posted on 04/19/2014 9:33:06 AM PDT by dowcaet
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To: lonevoice

Right on! This is a big step in the right direction.


15 posted on 04/19/2014 9:35:01 AM PDT by Pride in the USA
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To: ponygirl; All
well, the "federals" have (basically) declared war;
"On the US Constitution/BoR, by denying the right to
private property and the pursue of happiness"

w/the actions of the BLM/"Rustler" Reid et.al.

16 posted on 04/19/2014 9:37:48 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun. Cattlegate..0'Caligula / 0'Reid? ;-)
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To: ponygirl

ALL federal lands should be brought back to local control. The BLM and USFS lands to the counties, and the park system to the states.

If the BLM and USFS lands are given to the states, you can deal with the cesspool blackhole that is your state capital. If given to the counties, you can get right smack into the faces of the county authorities.


17 posted on 04/19/2014 9:37:53 AM PDT by crz
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To: dowcaet

Then Rory Reid would be waiting in the wings to continue the self serving corruption.


18 posted on 04/19/2014 9:39:10 AM PDT by IM2MAD (IM2MAD=Individual Motivated 2 Make A Difference)
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To: chris37
yeah..reference: the 10th Admt. to the Bill of Rights.

19 posted on 04/19/2014 9:39:38 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun. Cattlegate..0'Caligula / 0'Reid? ;-)
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To: ponygirl
It's time.

Long past time. Let's do it people!

20 posted on 04/19/2014 9:40:02 AM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: Sacajaweau
As we moved west, the Evil Feds bought the Louisiana Territory, The Feds fought Mexico who ceded a large chunk of land, and the Feds bought Gadsden. Got the Oregon territory by treaty, and bought Alaska.

Then they built a huge number of forts and hired soldiers to fight the Indians so the land could be settled.

The feds paid for the territorial govts.

And it was the people back east who were paying for this.

A lot of people will tell you that the way Congress disbursed the western lands, or didn't disburse the western lands, was done in a way that would limit the power of the west(relative to the east), after these western states entered the union.

21 posted on 04/19/2014 9:49:33 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: IM2MAD

Yeah Rory is a chip off the old block, isn’t he? Does that family have any shame?


22 posted on 04/19/2014 9:51:25 AM PDT by dowcaet
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To: ponygirl

About time.


23 posted on 04/19/2014 10:04:11 AM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: Ben Ficklin

I believe it began with the survey of the Northwest Territories. There were dispute going back to colonies about where the western boundaries were. The feds ordered a survey of the Northwest terr. After the survey they sold off parcels of land and retired the national debt which came out of the revolution war and thereafter,

I believe this was the model for subsequent territories and one of the reasons the income tax was not permanent until the 1900s after we ran out of new territories.

I would like to see a balanced budget amendment followed by a federal land sale off. Say 50% sold and 50% under state control. We may not retire the national debt, but we could pay it down by a few trillion.


24 posted on 04/19/2014 10:12:45 AM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: factoryrat
Kick the feds out of the west, take our states back! EVERYTHING the federal government touches devolves into a corrupted, greed fueled train wreck, where the people end up being the losers.

How are we then going to pay back our debt to the Chi-cons & others. The U.S. will not declared BK. By law it can't & its assets must be given as collateral. If we take all of the govs land there is no payments. The elites will not allow it, ergo this will be a fight to the finish if both hunker down. Since when have the people in recent times ever won that war.

25 posted on 04/19/2014 10:17:06 AM PDT by Digger
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To: Digger

I agree completely with your concerns.

America is currently broken.

We import everything from China it seems. 440 billion last year in imports from China, vs just 122 billion in exports to China.

Every day we owe China more, than we did the day before.

Our entire system is built on sold-out formerly American businesses, using Chinese labor then re-importing the goods back to America.

The problem with this is, China is not open. Americans cannot invest in Chinese companies or buy Chinese land. So what happens is we rack up ever more debt.

No don’t sell off our federal lands until we get America’s terrible trade deficit under control.

First. Now.


26 posted on 04/19/2014 10:22:56 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: shove_it
"The BLM needs to be replaced"

When Congress enacted the Taylor Grazing Act they created the Grazing Division to manage the act and the lands. And that was renamed the US Grazing Service, which would be merged with General Land Office to create the BLM in 1946.

Then Congress enacted FLPMA(1976) which radically changed and enlarged the BLM mission, so all the General Land Office duties were removed from BLM. All homesteading ended in 1976 and the mission became multi-use. There were other things to be done with the lands besides grazing.

I'll tell you a little secret. The states don't want these lands. The grazers won't buy them because they would then have to pay property taxes. If the states take these lands, then they will be the ones getting sued by Earth Justice and the Sierra Club. The developers would love to get the lands so they could turn them into Mini-Ranchettes and Mobile Home Estates.

And it wasn't just FLPMA in the 70s. OSHA, MHSA, Endangered Species Act, Clean Water and Air Acts and other enviro regs, creating EPA, Healthy Forests and how clearcutting would proceed in the Natl Forests, the Magnussen Act and the feds taking control of the ocean fisheries.

27 posted on 04/19/2014 10:24:57 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: morphing libertarian; Sacajaweau
When you say the Northwest Territories I think you are meaning Mich, Wisc, Ohio, Ill, and Indiana. The methods they used there worked fine because that was in the wet zone and settlers could make a living off those size lands.

It didn't work in the dry zone west. In order for it to work in the west, these parcels would have to be huge and Congress was not willing pass out large tracts of land..

So, instead the tracts remained small, and these other lands would be available so individuals could graze out onto the govt land.

Land was/is power

28 posted on 04/19/2014 10:43:36 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Sacajaweau

As if toilets, ladders, light bulbs, septic systems, lawn mowers, and pretty much anything related to life aren’t prime examples as well. Food, clothing, shelter, transportation, travel, Identification, personal privacy, hand in your pocket from birth to death and it will only get worse unless we the people in the name of sovereign states take control before all possibility of control is lost.


29 posted on 04/19/2014 10:50:37 AM PDT by wita
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To: Ben Ficklin

>>> The states don’t want these lands.<<<

More than 50 political leaders from nine states convened for the first time to talk about their joint goal: wresting control of oil-, timber -and mineral-rich lands away from the feds...”

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57836973-90/utah-lands-lawmakers-federal.html.csp

Apparently this group wants the lands in their states back.

The Feds are doing a fine job of managing the land at gunpoint. It seems this Nevada rancher has a good case of adverse possession going for him.


30 posted on 04/19/2014 11:11:45 AM PDT by shove_it (long ago Orwell and Rand warned us of Obama's America)
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To: Ben Ficklin

“I’ll tell you a little secret. The states don’t want these lands.

If the states take these lands, then they will be the ones getting sued by Earth Justice and the Sierra Club.”

I’m not buying either comment, but part of the problem appears to be an out of control judiciary. Something isn’t right when an organization can shop judges to get what they want for a verdict, meaning one man in a black robe against the people.

You and I both know that was not the Republic the Founders designed, and radical environmentalists comprising a small fraction of the moral busybodies in the United States have been granted far more license than they ever should have had.

I believe much of the highly destructive forest fires we have been force to endure and the Mountain Pine Beetle destruction can be laid right at the doorstep of those ignorant folks who place the life of anything on the planet on a higher scale than man, who was given dominion over all.

I call all of this misguided meddling people wanting to play God rather than understanding what goodness he has provided for our blessing and benefit.


31 posted on 04/19/2014 11:16:15 AM PDT by wita
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To: shove_it
"This rancher has a good case"

He has lost over and over in court. It is only now after he has exhausted all his legal arguments that he decided to fight it with guns

32 posted on 04/19/2014 11:30:45 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Pride in the USA

The good guys. :-)


33 posted on 04/19/2014 11:49:02 AM PDT by lonevoice (We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality)
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To: Ben Ficklin

Yes, I did not address the size of lots etc, but the method was used throughout the 1800s IIRC.


34 posted on 04/19/2014 12:18:42 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: ponygirl
I was supposed to be at that summit. I am one of the Arizona representative to the American Lands Council. Please check them out. American Lands Council

This will be the next American Revolution.

35 posted on 04/19/2014 1:14:26 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: Ben Ficklin

YOU ARE SO WRONG.


36 posted on 04/19/2014 1:14:51 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

It’s not all about selling the land. It’s about managing it. The Feds to a piss poor job of it and then charge us for it. The people closest to it do a better job.


37 posted on 04/19/2014 1:15:46 PM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: Ben Ficklin

He has a case in claiming prescriptive easement. And this is why the Feds are crapping themselves and deciding to go all Rambo on the man.


38 posted on 04/19/2014 2:01:50 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: Ben Ficklin

Who brought the guns out first? It certainly wasn’t Bundy.


39 posted on 04/19/2014 2:02:49 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: Hildy

Got it bookmarked. Thanks Hildy.


40 posted on 04/19/2014 2:03:56 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: morphing libertarian
"You did not address the size of the lots"

Because I have conflicted info on that. The Morrell Act said increments of 40 acres. I've seen some say a quarter of a section or 160 acres. Walter Prescott Webb in his book on settling the west said 360 or 180 acres.

Any of these numbers are small numbers when you consider that it takes a 100 or more acres to graze one head in these western lands. Spanish and Mexican land grants were in the 100s of thousands of acres. Texas disposed of her lands and created very large ranches.

I'm interested in any sources you have on that.

41 posted on 04/19/2014 3:13:52 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Sorry, I’m really not a scholar or a serious student for that matter.

There was a book a few years ago about the lead surveyor and the issues at the time. That’s as far as I’ve read.

The Fabric of America
http://www.amazon.com/Fabric-America-Andro-Linklater-ebook/dp/B002STNB7U/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1397946099&sr=1-1&keywords=Fabric+of+America


42 posted on 04/19/2014 3:22:02 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: Hildy

Wrong about what?


43 posted on 04/19/2014 3:29:23 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: ponygirl
"Who brought the guns out first"

Bundy's confrontation was planned well in advance. His militia was extensive and came from many states, and they came ahead of time. They were there when BLM arrived to seize the cattle, and they were itching for a firefight.

BTW, with all your vast lawyering skills and license, can you give me the legal argument on the prescriptive easement

44 posted on 04/19/2014 3:40:28 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: morphing libertarian

I’m not a scholar either. I read Webb’s book, The High Plains, 20 years ago(pre-internet days). It was published in the 30s but is still considered an authoritative source and is still in print at U of Nebraska Bison Press because many western colleges use it as a textbook.


45 posted on 04/19/2014 3:52:54 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

I like history but I’m all over the map from Rome to the current time. Someone bought me this book as a gift. It was an interesting read. There was another book about Mason-Dixon about 10 years ago. A best seller I think.

Now reading The Hour Of Peril about the plot to kill Lincoln at the Baltimore train station on his way from Springfield to the first inauguration.

I guess my interest is like pieces of a jig saw puzzle. Some day all of it will come together, in chronological order, I hope.


46 posted on 04/19/2014 3:56:58 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: Ben Ficklin

Wrong about the States not wanting the land. I go one further. I want the Counties to be the ones to manage their own land.


47 posted on 04/20/2014 12:13:28 AM PDT by Hildy (Falling down is how you grow. Staying down is how you die.)
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To: Hildy
Prez Hoover wanted to transfer these lands and the states said they didn't want them.

After Congress enacted FLPMA there was a push led by Orrin Hatch, but it never went anywhere.

I don't mean to criticize you but you are missing a sense of scale. Among more than 71,000 lease holders the problems are mainly minor and very, very few in number. Kooks and malcontents like Bundy don't come along very often . These grazers recognize that they are getting a very good deal and it is easy to "bend" the rules and regs to their benefit.

48 posted on 04/20/2014 5:27:10 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: All
The arming of Federal agencies with machine guns, armored vehicles, bullet proof vests, explosives, and even tanks, along with billions of rounds of ammunition, continues apace.

Collectively, over 25,000 individuals now work as armed agents of federal agencies not usually associated with law enforcement. These are not just guards. These agents go out on raids to enforce the orders of federal bureaucracies. No bureaucracy should have a private army to enforce its orders against the American people.

Outside of law enforcement, federal agencies now employ over 25,000 people as armed agents. They are more than guards. They’ve become like private armies that can push around private citizens. Over 70 non-military federal agencies now have their own armed agents.

One expects armed agents with the FBI, the U.S. Marshal Service and the Border Patrol.

But an armed EPA, Fish & Wildlife Service, Bureau of Land Management, even the Social Security Administration and the National Institutes of Health?

The Department of Education and the Department of Housing and Urban Development have their own armed agents. As do the Food and Drug Administration. And Veterans Affairs, the Government Printing Office, the National Zoo, and the Library of Congress

49 posted on 04/22/2014 4:24:16 AM PDT by Liz
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To: ponygirl

Best news of the year. Go Matt Shea.


50 posted on 04/22/2014 4:29:14 AM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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