Skip to comments.Bundy Ranch Showdown Proves Militias Can Stop Government Excesses
Posted on 04/20/2014 2:39:03 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER
When gun rights advocates explain that the Second Amendment exists to protect the people's last-ditch means of stopping an out-of-control government, a common reply from those who favor oppressive gun laws is that civilians, with our small arms, would have no chance against a military superpower like the U.S. They tell us that with tanks, stealth bombers, supersonic fighter jets, drones, helicopter gunships, etc., the military would crush any resistance by the people. (Oddly, this argument has apparently not yet convinced the Taliban to quit fighting.)
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Let’s face it, the standoff turning bloody would have hurt Obama......that is why it ended.
If they could have transformed the armed citizens into terrorists, this could have been another Waco.
What can a pistol do against an army?
Run around and irritate the crap out of it.
Not nearly as much as a camera.
Yep. Lots of them in fact and some elected officials on hand to boot.
“If they could have transformed the armed citizens into terrorists, this could have been another Waco.”
Seems Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is doing everything he can to make that possible next time.
Talk about over-confidence.
Read the history of the W.W. II “Liberator.”
Wouldn’t have been like Waco for there would’ve been dead on both sides , and the Federates (JBT) would’ve loss the battle at the cattle pens .
For some reason there are people who believe our military would be willing to turn on the population. Our military is not separate from the population. They live among us. They have civilian friends. If it does come to an armed revolution much of the military would join in, others would refuse to fight and stay neutral. I think few would attack the civilian population.
> If they could have transformed the armed citizens into terrorists, this could have been another Waco.
Seems Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is doing everything he can to make that possible next time.
We can play the renaming game, too. The difference is ours is the truth. Reid is selfish, cheating, lying scumbag politician who has friends that are mobsters. Politicians don’t align themselves with organized crime sydnicates to do good in the community, Harry. We see you for what you are. A traitor that is in the process of selling the American dream we once knew to the highest bidder for the ultimate betrayal. Your days are numbered.
I would argue that most of the BLM officers were not properly armored or with suitable cover.
The decision to retreat was proper because their force was flanked and outmanned. There was no determined effort to resist and carry the operation forward.
It was a tactical decision. There can be another day when the BLM officers are better armored, have better weaponry and cover. The militias will likely be put on defense and will loose.
The outcome though doesn’t depend on who is best armored or armed. The question boils down to does the BLM want to go to war. If they do, the officers will be targets where ever they go, in their homes with their families, at a family meal at McDonalds, at church. Will those officers pull the trigger on Ranchers, Americans? If they do, their lives are at an effective end.
That is all they have learned.
They have not learned they will not be safe until what you suggest starts happening.
We will see.....
R.Scott, I pray that you are correct.
However, Zero and the 0bamunists are hellbent on creating that civilian security force he called for. To that end, he continues to provide military gear to police and sheriff departments around the country. To that end, the training programs of many departments now more resemble Army AIT than law enforcement training in which (both) I participated (many years ago).
Do the a$$hats in DC know what will happen if they actually order attacks on the American people? Not really.
Was Waco a test case? Maybe. Ruby Ridge? Perhaps.
So, what happened in NV? Significant government forces, armed, equipped and prepared for deadly force action were met by significantly larger ad hoc civilian militia, equipped and prepared for such confrontation. This accompanied by instantaneous video and audio communication to the larger world beyond.
I believe the planned outcome would have been a MAJOR public relations disaster for this hobbled (but dangerous) administration. They chose to withdraw rather than suffer the heat.
What about the next time? They will apply lessons learned. Likely there will not be the several days of standoff, stupid things like “first amendment zones”, and tasers and dogs (those are far too ‘one on one’).
Likely it will be swift, tightly controlled, and the administration will carefully manage the media and the message.
Dingy Harry is setting that stage with his incessant yapping about ‘domestic terrorists’, when in fact the only terrorism in this scenario was from the gubmint, not the people standing their ground.
The Constitution is our shield, but it must be enforced.
The Second Amendment is our sword, and it must be preserved.
Nothing has been won.
The Feral Gov. just backed down temporarily to avoid another Waco or Ruby Ridge oon live TV.
When things quiet down they will be back with a vengeance and make Bundy pay double for this momentary embarrassment to them.
The Fedcoats are not done, in Nevada or elsewhere. Not by a long shot.
There are too many heavily armed (and armored) Fed SWAT teams that, combined with a police-state mentality, makes it a virtual certainty that shots will be fired before the end of this year. Crazy summer ahead, methinks.
Small-scale casualties are inevitable (i.e. a civilian showing a gun at the “wrong” time, such as during a SWAT raid) but those killings make for small headlines, usually. Maybe not this time, but who knows.
It’s the “big one” that has me worried. Whether a an outright assault, “false flag” or straight-up, or perhaps a “Lexington” encounter, that spark will start a much bigger conflagration. Lots of bodies, on both sides.
Maybe my reporter’s “nose for news” is off, but I seem to be hearing more talk now about “organizing” instead of the “prepper” discussions we’ve had in recent years. Crazy summer indeed.
The military functions on orders, not emotion.
You are correct. The lesson has not been taught or learned. I was projecting the thoughts of the BLM locals. They work and actually live in the communities.
A officer could project the future and see trouble for “me.”
Those are nice thoughts, but the same could be said for SWAT teams, ATF, etc., many of whom do not hesitate to break down doors, shoot innocent people, terrorize children, kill pets, burn houses down and never show a moment's remorse.
These incidents take place more and more often and the people who bring this violence to everyday citizens are also neighbors, sons, dads and the guy who lives down the street.
IMHO, if (when) the SHTF there will be plenty of federal employees, in and out of the military ready to do Master Obama's bidding.
Not all, but many.
Remember - the military did not hesitate to aid the feds in the slaughter of 80 citizens at Waco.
As they say - Hope for the best, Prep for the worst.
Be where they are not...
No way in hell the cattle pens incident turned into another Waco. The BLM was out flanked, outgunned and out numbered. That said the aftermath would of been very ugly.
If these resident agencies become militarized and they use such force, their jobs become 24/7 FOREVER. In the end, once the shooting stops in a foreign territory, the troops wihdraw and go home. This would be more like troops in Afghanistan going home at 5PM and going to a home next to the people they had been shooting at all day.
No way they do an open attack on the Bundy Ranch. The Bundy’s are the safest people in Nevada. It would be open warfare on the families of Fed employees. Just an observation.
Our military is not separate from the population. They live among us. They have civilian friends. If it does come to an armed revolution much of the military would join in, others would refuse to fight and stay neutral. I think few would attack the civilian population. (My emphasis)
We lost more Americans to police violence last year than we did to the Taliban or Al Qaeda.
Let’s not be too cocky. Zero is still in the White Hut.
Change the scenario a bit. Hillary is president. Do you really think they would have backed down?
Hillary is even worse than 0bama.
Could it be that government forces under Obama are planning an early morning attack on the Bundy compound to bring Mr. Bundy out dead or alive? After all Bundy is well regarded by the T Party who are feared by the RATS. We have Sen. Reid calling Mr. Bundy and his followers domestic terrorists. Remember Ruby Ridge &* Waco.
We need to go back to the question “ What functions were the Federal government given as established by the constitution.”
In the USA, there is only 1 militia per U.S. state, and 1 militia per U.S. territory, and 1 militia for DC.
In general, all non-conscientious-objector, able-bodied men are regarded as a pool from which the militia may be mustered and/or recruited and/or some may volunteer.
We do have the right to keep and bear Arms, but to use martial power lawfully, requires the authority of either the duly-elected state/territory governor, lt. gov., secy of state, attorney gen’l ... or the duly-elected legislature.
Usually the legislature selects or assigns a committee to oversee the matters at hand and respond to the emergency that has caused the people to urge the members of the legislature to order the muster.
The duly-elected state/territory legislative body has the overall authority, and it can order the muster despite all the other elected officials and/or judges.
In general, the proceedings are modeled along the same lines as used by our Continental Congress and the various Committees of Safety within the colonies.
(Massachusetts was the first to choose a Committee of Safety that had authority over its militia.)
The authority to exercise martial power and law enforcement by force, stems from a duly elected body, and we are expected by our Founding Fathers, to adhere to such due process, as they did.
The militia can train, but cannot exercise martial power without the approval of duly-elected civilian authority. That distinguishes the militia from “an armed gang or mob.”
Almost all, if not all, militia in the U.S. are out of the practice of responding to state and local emergencies -— because the traditional musters have waned for a long time, now. The lack of practice, is what leads to errors and missteps, particularly in regard to The Authority for The Militia to Act.
If you volunteer for some emergency, or what you think is an emergency, you have volunteered for service to the needs of the citizens.
If you exercise martial power, you better be prepared to announce the state/local civilian authority that authorizes your actions.
If you volunteer to enforce the local and/or state laws, you better be prepared to accept your role as a sheriff deputy and as much as you are able, pains-taking-ly note how you are following due process. Basically, *you have to* keep a log of your activities, somehow; take notes; record events; do what you can to demonstrate to the local and/or state duly-elected civilian authority (and to judges), that you made a good faith effort to follow the law(s).
If you think that your cause is just, and you are responding to abuse by government, it is in the best interest of the community in which such abuse takes place, that its duly elected civilian authority *under the command of which, you are operating,* is both:
a) opposed to said abuse by government
b) has authorized certain steps to be taken and authorized you to perform those steps
*Then* you are in compliance with the public’s trust.
The Bundy,s could now become the target of the government in other ways, it would not be the first time cocaine or something else was found where it was not.
The reason we have this problem in the first place is because the people put this land in the hands of the feds, and it will stay in their control until the voters take it away from them which obviously will not happen, other wise it would not have gotten as far as it has in the first place.
Not trying to be a pessimist, just reading the signs.
If Hillary gets elected she will build her own militia from mercenaries worldwide, they will infiltrate domestic local militias and disrupt them, or to create incidents of mass brutal savagery to convince Americans to NOT support any militia.
Its all about mass support, trends, Facebook, tweeterville and such, its not pure patriotism, its now the age of social acceptance.
Hillary will create a negative social standing of all the militias.
There is a basic principle in our law, that civilian authority trumps the exercise of power and moreso trumps the exercise of martial power. We rely on that principle, for our duly-elected representatives to outrank members of our military and to outrank police powers as well.
Thereby, you, as a duly-elected civilian in charge of an office of government that contains a department of military and/or department of police powers, have the *civilian authority* to remove from position the agents and officials of those departments ... and your decision is final, there is no appeal for some “civil servant” when they serve in a capacity of exercising forceful power.
In short, the people, here, are sovereign, intead of some arrogant class in robes and uniforms and/or some groups of armed people exercising martial power without the authorization of duly-elected civilian authority.
The actions taken at the Bundy Ranch may very well be in compliance with the public’s trust ... because of the sentiments of the public ... but officially, it is much better that the public’s sentiment be known and be reflected in the decisions of the existing duly-elected representatives, and if not them, then at the minimum, by a duly-elected Committee of Safety.
If no such civilian authority gives the approval for the exercise of martial power, then the volunteers who show, are as civilians exercising as you would when attempting to help a neighbor ... and the common law applies ... and basically you are attempting to enforce the law.
Let us say, that thankfully no shots are fired, but a group of volunteers apprehended some of the BLM agents during some mixup that could have occurred last Saturday. The volunteers would be affecting citizens arrests and detaining the BLM agents to be handed over -safely- to the local sheriff. It is very important that the volunteers carefully document their actions, effectively as spur-of-the-moment volunteer deputies.
In our country, the people have the right to muster and drill. The people have the right to petition our duly-elected representatives to Order the Muster in expectation that the Militia may exercise martial power for the common safety. The people have the right to petition our duly-elected representatives to appoint from among the members (or all of) the Militia, deputies to enforce the laws and/or reinforce an organization of law enforcement ... or utterly replace an organization of law enforcement.
It’s all up to the people, thru their duly-elected representatives.
That is how we respect adherence to the public trust; and it is what our Founding Fathers both respected and wished for us, should necessity come.
And soldiers have a duty to disobey any unlawful order. Review the Nuremburg trials if you doubt that.
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“Lets face it, the standoff turning bloody would have hurt Obama......that is why it ended.
If they could have transformed the armed citizens into terrorists, this could have been another Waco.”
You give the govt too much credit. The standoff ended because the govt goons were outnumbered and getting ready to get their butts shot off.
Secondly this would never have become Waco because the govt was not confronting a bunch of cult members holed up in a building. They were confronting trained and armed militia and from the reports I read outnumbered.
The aggressors were not combat troops or even the FBI they were a bunch of jumped up forest rangers with tactcal gear interspersed with a few hired mercs. They are the Civilian National Defense Force and they do not have the eye of the tiger.
Obama’s Civilian National Defense Force has no Constitutional or statutory leg to stand on. Everywhere they appear they need to be neutralized by militia and citizens. They have no jurisdiction to make armed incursions into sovereign states. The Governor of Nevada should have sent the staters to run them off at the first sign of their operation. Since he was hiding under his desk the citizens and their militia had to do it.
Look for this to happen again and again across the country.
Unfortunately, I have to agree. Her and Obama ALMOST make me miss Jimmy Carter. I have no doubt that there is a better than even chance, that if the Hildebeast becomes president, there could be many Waco events. The bad part of it, is I am pretty sure Bill Clinton will be the next first man. It's an ugly thought, and I pray to Jesus every day that it does not happen, but I think it will.
Give me a break........................
Review the Whiskey Rebellion or the Bonus Army or Kent State University or the clandestine participation at Waco......................
Should that occur, it would render our Patriots as evil as the oppressors. A freedom fighter attacks the oppressors; a terrorist attacks his women and children.
You and I know that. There are many that are ready to take it there. Let’s hope they do not get the chance or act on it.
The leviathan will continue to absorb.
And, all those who depart will be methodically arrested, either on their drive home or early some morning shortly after they arrive.
Any who resist will be shot and/or burned.
These guys (Feds) are not equipped to deal with concentrated force willing and able to fight back.
They are VERY good at culling their targets from the herd with overwhelming, concentrated force.
I thought I saw someone say on Facebook that Facebook was not allowing any more videos of the Bundy ranch to be posted. It looked like the videos were going viral a few days ago but that might have been curtailed.
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Reid’s Rustlers are going to return in greater numbers with greater military resources.