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California City Agrees to End Prayers at Public Meetings
christiannews.net ^ | April 20, 2014 | Heather Clark

Posted on 04/20/2014 5:58:40 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012

PISMO BEACH, Calif. – Officials in a California city have agreed to end their practice of presenting prayers at public meetings in order to settle a lawsuit with a local atheist organization.

City officials in Pismo Beach state that they decided to settle the matter because they did not want to spend taxpayer money to fight the legal battle. The announced their decision on Wednesday.

As previously reported, the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) filed a complaint against the city in November, asserting that the prayers offered regularly by Pismo Beach chaplain Paul Jones promote Christianity to residents. The organization stated that Jones’ prayers often morph into sermonettes in a manner that appears to “advance and proselytize for Christianity.”

“The Scriptures teach us, saying, ‘Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord,’” Jones is quoted as declaring in one prayer. “Too long, we have neglected Your word and ignored Your laws. We have tried to solve our problems without reference to You. Your word is so clear, and is so simple. For Your Word says: ‘Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach and an embarrassment to any people.’ And so we confess to You our sins, and ask that we as a nation and as individuals may experience a moral and a spiritual restoration.”

(Excerpt) Read more at christiannews.net ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: atheist; christian; prayer

1 posted on 04/20/2014 5:58:40 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: ilovesarah2012

Atheist terrorist strike again.


2 posted on 04/20/2014 6:03:51 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: vetvetdoug

How can they be stopped?


3 posted on 04/20/2014 6:05:45 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: ilovesarah2012

Benjamin Franklin

Constitutional Convention Address on Prayer

delivered Thursday, June 28, 1787, Philadelphia, PA

Mr. President:

The small progress we have made after 4 or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other — our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own wont of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.

In this situation of this Assembly groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine Protection. — Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a Superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance.

I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth — that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings that “except the Lord build they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall be become a reproach and a bye word down to future age. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human Wisdom, and leave it to chance, war, and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move — that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that service.


4 posted on 04/20/2014 6:05:50 AM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance

Ben were OLD SKOOL

“all them creepy ass crackers wrote in CURSIVE”

God Bless America !


5 posted on 04/20/2014 6:08:17 AM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( "Never, never, never give up". Winston Churchill)
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To: ilovesarah2012

I would like to see people attending future meetings to bring a bible with them or wear a cross....I see the town’s point...but this is another way to say an atheist will not put down my religion.


6 posted on 04/20/2014 6:10:02 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: EternalVigilance

Our country sure has changed.


7 posted on 04/20/2014 6:10:04 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: ilovesarah2012

Good idea. Continue to bend over backwards to the loudest and most obnoxious 3%. Seems that no one puts any thought into the slippery slope big picture.


8 posted on 04/20/2014 6:12:59 AM PDT by albie
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To: ilovesarah2012

Indeed. I feel like I’m living in Sodom & Gomorrah.


9 posted on 04/20/2014 6:21:29 AM PDT by FES0844
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To: ilovesarah2012

It is time the Christians in this country stop falling down and playing dead every time these blood suckers want something done there is no one fighting back.

I read 80% of the people in this country say they believe in a higher power.and 20% claim to be atheist..now why are the 80% letting these evil scum get away with taking prayer out of everything..


10 posted on 04/20/2014 6:23:01 AM PDT by PLD
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To: ilovesarah2012
It has changed because of a few people who are imposing their will on us. This should have been stopped by the courts with a "don't go until after the prayer", "don't look at it then" and any other commonsense solution.

How you stop them is to defy them. The town can't start the prayer but the townspeople can pray.

11 posted on 04/20/2014 6:23:09 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: ilovesarah2012

E quake coming


12 posted on 04/20/2014 6:25:07 AM PDT by ronnie raygun
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To: FES0844

We are.


13 posted on 04/20/2014 6:25:41 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: ilovesarah2012

May it sink into the ocean


14 posted on 04/20/2014 6:25:52 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: albie

It seems that our country runs exclusively to fulfill every whim of the smallest, noisiest minorities. I guess the ultimate person to be catered to would be an illegal alien who is an atheist but wants to have a gay wedding ceremony in a church. All of our institutions would bow down before such a person. He would be treated almost as if he were a god.


15 posted on 04/20/2014 6:28:27 AM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: ilovesarah2012

BY ALEX MURASHKO, CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER
August 17, 2013|8:55 am

Religious Freedom Lawyers Respond to Atheists Wanting Prayer at City Council Meetings Stopped

The ADF legal letter states, “Fortunately, Chico can not only look to the historical example of the U.S. Congress and clear Supreme Court precedent, but this past Spring the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit has expressly reaffirmed the right of Cities to open their public meetings with a prayer…” The letter additionally points out that the 9th Circuit “went further to clarify the Cities need not censor the content of the prayers or prevent people from offering prayers that are distinctive to their own faith traditions.”

Senior Counsel Brett Harvey added, “A few people should not be able to extinguish the traditions of our nation merely because they heard something they didn’t like. Because the authors of the Constitution invoked God’s blessing on public proceedings, this tradition shouldn’t suddenly be considered unconstitutional. It’s perfectly constitutional to allow community members to ask for God’s blessing according to their conscience.”

http://www.christianpost.com/news/religious-freedom-lawyers-respond-to-atheists-wanting-prayer-at-city-council-meetings-stopped-102475/


16 posted on 04/20/2014 6:30:04 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: yldstrk
May it sink into the ocean

Can the guy who started this site, and all the many California conservatives, get out first before it sinks into the ocean? Thanks.

17 posted on 04/20/2014 7:18:54 AM PDT by Nea Wood (When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.-Sowell)
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To: ilovesarah2012

Normal in Freak-A-Fornia.


18 posted on 04/20/2014 7:35:45 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Nea Wood

yeah they should


19 posted on 04/20/2014 7:36:07 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: ilovesarah2012

Listen to her speech on the page below.

‘Willing to Go to Jail’: Politician Delivers Passionate Speech About God Before Defying Judge’s Order and Uttering a Christian Prayer

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/28/willing-to-go-to-jail-politician-delivers-passionate-speech-about-god-before-defying-judges-order-and-uttering-a-christian-prayer/


20 posted on 04/20/2014 7:56:11 AM PDT by Whenifhow
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To: ilovesarah2012
Perhaps a reading of the following "Centennial Thanksgiving Sermon," delivered in November 1876, by an Ohio Black Legislator and A.M.E. Minister, Benjamin W. Arnett.

The so-called "progressive" agenda has, for decades, sought to replace the founding concept of Creator-endowed individual rights, liberty and laws to protect that liberty with their own false concept of imperfect persons in government assuming the role of the "Supreme Being."

The electorate must become educated to these competing ideas and rediscover America's Founding principles, which can enable them to recognize which are true ideas of liberty, and which are counterfeit ideas of tyranny. That is not easy.

In 2008, Michael Ledeen, on another subject altogether, wrote of the degree to which Americans have been "dumbed down" on some basic ideas underlying our freedom:

Ledeen said, "Our educational system has long since banished religion from its texts, and an amazing number of Americans are intellectually unprepared for a discussion in which religion is the central organizing principle."

In the Pope's speech in Germany a few years ago, he observed:

"A reason which is deaf to the divine and which relegates religion into the realm of subcultures is incapable of entering into the dialogue of cultures."

Ledeen put his finger on a problem that stifles meaningful dialogue and debate in America on a number of subjects--as is now exhibited in the discussion on the causes and solutions to acts of violence such as that in Newtown. Censors [disguised as "protectors" (the Radical Left's ACLU, NEA, education bureaucracies, etc., etc.)] have imposed their limited understanding of liberty upon generations of school children.

From America's founding to the 1950's, ideas derived from religious literature were included in textbooks, through the poetry and prose used to teach children to read and to identify with their world and their country.

Suddenly, those ideas began to disappear from textbooks, until now, faceless, mindless copy editors sit in cubicles in the nation's textbook publishing companies, instructed by their supervisors to remove mere words that refer to family, to the Divine, and to any of the ancient ideas that have sustained intelligent discourse for centuries.

Now, it is the ACLU which accuses middle Americans of "censorship" if they object to books, films, etc., that offend their sensibilities and undermine the character training of their young. Sadly, many of those books and films are themselves products of the minds that have been robbed of exposure to wisdom literature in the nation's schools and universities.

Back in 1876, a Black Minister and Ohio State Legislator, Rev. Benjamin W. Arnett, delivered the "Centennial Thanksgiving Sermon," celebrating the Declaration of Independence, at St. Paul A.M.E. Church in Urbana, Ohio. The Sermon can be read online at the American Memory Section of the LOC, in the African-American Collection. Below is a small excerpt from that Sermon's conclusion. In it Rev. Arnett warned about a movement among "liberals" to remove the ideas underlying America's founding documents. See if you don't recognize those ideas from what you have observed in recent years:

"The Danger to our Country.

"Now that our national glory and grandeur is principally derived from the position the fathers took on the great questions of right and wrong, and the career of this nation has been unparalleled in the history of the past, now there are those who are demanding the tearing down the strength of our national fabric. They may not intend to tear it down, but just as sure as they have their way, just that sure will they undermine our superstructure and cause the greatest calamity of the age. What are the demands of this party of men? Just look at it and examine it for yourselves, and see if you are willing that they shall have their way; or will you still assist in keeping the ship of state in the hands of the same crew and run her by the old gospel chart! But ye men who think there is no danger listen to the demands of the Liberals as they choose to call themselves:

"'Organize! Liberals of America! The hour for action has arrived. The cause of freedom calls upon us to combine our strength, our zeal, our efforts. These are The Demands of Liberalism:

"'1. We demand that churches and other ecclesiastical property shall no longer be exempt from just taxation.

"'2. We demand that the employment of chaplains in Congress, in State Legislatures, in the navy and militia, and in prisons, asylums, and all other institutions supported by public money, shall be discontinued.

"'3. We demand that all public appropriations for sectarian educational and charitable institutions shall cease.

"'4. We demand that all religious services now sustained by the government shall be abolished; and especially that the use of the Bible in the public schools, whether ostensibly as a text-book or avowedly as a book of religious worship, shall be prohibited.

"'5. We demand that the appointment, by the President of the United States or by the Governors of the various States, of all religious festivals and fasts shall wholly cease.

"'6. We demand that the judicial oath in the courts and in all other departments of the government shall be abolished, and that simple affirmation under the pains and penalties of perjury shall be established in its stead.

"'7. We demand that all laws directly or indirectly enforcing the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath shall be repealed.

"'8. We demand that all laws looking to the enforcement of “Christian” morality shall be abrogated, and that all laws shall be conformed to the requirements of natural morality, equal rights, and impartial liberty.

"'9. We demand that not only in the Constitution of the United States and of the several States, but also in the practical administration of the same, no privilege or advantage shall be conceded to Christianity or any other special religion; that our entire political system shall be founded and administered on a purely secular basis; and that whatever changes shall prove necessary to this end shall be consistently, unflinchingly, and promptly made.'

"'Let us boldly and with high purpose meet the duty of the hour.'

"Now we must not think that we have nothing to do in this great work, for the men who are at the head of this movement are men of culture and intelligence, and many of them are men of influence. They are led by that thinker and scholar, F. E. Abbott, than whom I know but few men who has a smoother pen, or who is his equal on the battle-field of thought. He says in an address on the duty of his leagues:

"'My answer may be a negative one to all who see nothing positive in the idea of liberty. The conviction I refer to is this: that, regarded as a theological system, Christianity is Superstition, and, regarded as an organized institution, Christianity is Slavery. The purpose I refer to is this: that, whether regarded as theological system, Christianity shall wholly cease to exercise influence in political matters. Although the national Constitution is strictly secular and non-Christian, there are many things in the practical administration of the government which violate its spirit, and constitute a virtual recognition of Christianity as the national religion. These violations are very dangerous; they are on the increase; they more and more give Christianity a practical hold upon the government; they directly tend to strengthen the influence of Christianity over the people, and to fortify it both as a theology and a church; and they are therefore justly viewed with growing indignation by liberals. Not unreasonably are they looked upon as paving the way to a formidable effort to carry the Christian Amendment to the Constitution; and the liberals are beginning to see that they must extinguish the conflagration in its commencement. I believe all this myself, with more intense conviction every day; and therefore I appeal frankly to the people to begin now to lay the foundations of a great National Party of Freedom. It is not a moment too soon. If the liberals are wise, they will see the facts as they are, and act accordingly. Not with hostility, bitterness, defiance, or anger but rather with love to all men and high faith in the beneficence of consistently republican institutions, do I urge them most earnestly to begin the work at once.'

"He acknowledges that this is a religious nation and wants all men to assist him in eliminating the grand old granite principles from the framework of our national union. Will you do it freeman; will we sell the temple reared at the cost of so much precious blood and treasure? These men would have us turn back the hands on the clock of our national progress, and stay the shadow on the dial plate of our christian civilization; they would have us call a retreat to the soldiers in the army of Christ; the banner of the cross they would have us haul down, and reverse the engines of war against sin and crime; the songs of Zion they would turn into discord, and for the harmony and the melody of the sons of God, they would give us general confusion; they would have us chain the forces of virtue and unloose the elements of vice; they would have the nation loose its moorings from the Lord of truth and experience and commit interest, morally, socially; religiously and politically to the unsafe and unreliable human reason; they would discharge God and his crew and run the ship of State by the light of reason, which has always been but a dim taper in the world, and all the foot-prints it has left are marked with the blood of men, women and children. No nation is safe when left alone with reason.

"But we have no notion of giving up the contest without a struggle or a battle. We are aware that there is a great commotion in the world of thought. Religion and science are at arms length contending with all their forces for the mastery. Faith and unbelief are fighting their old battles over again, everything that can be shaken is shaking. The foundations of belief are assaulted by the army of science and men are changing their opinions. New and starting theories are promulgated to the world; old truths are putting on new garbs. Error is dressing in the latest style, wrong is secured by the unholy alliances, changes in men and things, revolution in church and state, Empires are crumbling, Kingdoms tottering; everywhere the change is seen. In the social circle, in the school house, in the pulpit and in the pews. But amid all the changes are revolutions their are some things that are unchangeable, unmovable and enduring. The forces that underline the vital power of Christianity are the same yesterday, to-day, to-morrow and forever more. They are like their God, who is omnipotent, immovable and eternal, and everywhere truth has marched it has left its moccasin tracks." - (End of Excerpt from "Righteousness Exalteth a Nation, but Sin is a Reproach to Any People")

So said Rev. Benjamin Arnett in 1876. Where is the leader who will declare these things today? His theme was "Righteousness Exalteth a Nation, but Sin is a Reproach to Any People." Might such outspoken thoughts not enlighten the minds of Americans today as they discuss the topic of this thread?

21 posted on 04/20/2014 8:06:27 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: ilovesarah2012

So, can they pray before the meetings on private property across the street?


22 posted on 04/20/2014 8:32:19 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: ilovesarah2012

Whether it’s homosexual bullies, negro bullies or, in this instance, atheist bullies, decent people continue to allow the bullies to get their way.


23 posted on 04/20/2014 8:35:00 AM PDT by glennaro
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To: ilovesarah2012

And this is why America will fall...


24 posted on 04/20/2014 10:50:15 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon (Light is fading to shadow, and casting its shroud over all we have known...)
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