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A Marine's story: Women set up to fail USMC’s most grueling test
Yahoo ^ | 4-21-14 | Martha Raddatz, Richard Coolidge & Jordyn Phelps

Posted on 04/21/2014 12:00:08 PM PDT by kingattax

VIDEO AT LINK

At a petite 5’3’’, Sage Santangelo may not look like a combat fighter at first glance. But the female second lieutenant has never let that hold her back from pursuing her dream of becoming an infantry officer in the Marine Corps.

Growing up, Santangelo found she was always able to keep up with the guys and enjoyed playing hockey on all boys’ teams. But when she joined the Marines, Santangelo found the playing field changed; she was segregated into female-only training units and as a woman, was relegated to less strenuous physical training than her male counterparts. And that’s why, Santangelo told “On the Radar,” she didn’t have a fair shot at passing the Marine Corps’ Infantry Officer Course.

“It was an awesome opportunity for me to be able to try the course, and an opportunity for me to learn what the ground combat element does and how I can support them in the future, and how to become a better leader in the Marines overall,” Santangelo said of the Marines’ Infantry Officer course, which she failed out of on the first day.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: barf; iwannabeanofficer; marinecorps; marines; sagesantangelo; usmc; waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah; waaahwaaahwaaahwaaah; womenincombat
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a woman is designed differently than a man and these idiots can't seem to grasp that fact. most people believe that women in combat and women as combat officers is a bad idea for many obvious reasons.
1 posted on 04/21/2014 12:00:08 PM PDT by kingattax
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To: All

Nobody likes a whiner Sage...


2 posted on 04/21/2014 12:04:15 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: kingattax

Well, it is a bad idea.

On the other hand, Women in a combat deployable MOS who don’t deploy to combat is an even worse idea. They take up billets that otherwise allow combat troops to de-stress between combat tours.


3 posted on 04/21/2014 12:04:24 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: kingattax

There is a way for women to successfully to complete elite military training (Marine Infantry, SEALS, Rangers, Air Force Combat Controllers, etc.). We merely need to lower those standards.


4 posted on 04/21/2014 12:05:07 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: kingattax

Most people may believe it but to say so in public is still considered heresy.


5 posted on 04/21/2014 12:06:44 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: kingattax

Can this 5’-3” shrimp carry a wounded man over her shoulder? A man that was likely hurt while instinctively trying to protect her worthless butt? We have truly stepped through the looking glass here.


6 posted on 04/21/2014 12:08:37 PM PDT by dainbramaged (Don't tell me, I'll tell you.)
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To: kingattax

So is she saying God “set her up to fail?” Because He’s the one who made her fundamentally different from men. There is no way she will ever be qualified to be rifle platoon commander.

But I will change my opinion when she can take a 912 pound 37 mm anti tank gun and throw it up on top of a seven foot seawall to take out a couple of pillboxes. That’s what the Marines did at Tarawa.

Maybe she can also claim the enemy “set her up to fail.”


7 posted on 04/21/2014 12:09:13 PM PDT by henkster (I don't like bossy women telling me what words I can't use.)
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To: kingattax

Uh....uh...never mind...

8 posted on 04/21/2014 12:10:16 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: kingattax

One woman our Marines won’t have to take into combat.

Thank God for small favors.


9 posted on 04/21/2014 12:10:31 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: kingattax

I wonder how Israel handles it. Good thing to research.


10 posted on 04/21/2014 12:10:34 PM PDT by Silentgypsy (Mind your atomic bonds.)
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To: kingattax

Men are the disposable sex. Almost any number of men can be killed in combat, without affecting the population of the next generation. The same cannot be said for young women killed in combat (or any other cause).


11 posted on 04/21/2014 12:11:16 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: kingattax

Because its all about her, not about the mission, capability, sheer ability to commit violence.

Its about her and being fair.


12 posted on 04/21/2014 12:12:21 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Silentgypsy

Yes. One of the top snipers in WW2 was a Russian woman.


13 posted on 04/21/2014 12:13:03 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: kingattax

She looks like a short, plump and butch Milla Jovovich.


14 posted on 04/21/2014 12:13:06 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: kingattax

As long as the test isn’t dumbed down for “equality reasons” I don’t care who passes it.


15 posted on 04/21/2014 12:13:13 PM PDT by Marko413
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To: kingattax

They were set up to fail this test when they were born. Most of them, anyway.


16 posted on 04/21/2014 12:13:34 PM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: henkster; dainbramaged; kingattax
I'm almost glad that my father (Gunnery Sergeant, 1943-65) didn't live to see this administration and it's shenanigans.
17 posted on 04/21/2014 12:14:08 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: kingattax

Physically, woman are equal to men and would do fine in combat situations. If you don’t believe me, go watch Wonder Woman and Laura Croft. And if that doesn’t convince you, watch a few episodes of “Power Puff Girls.” /sarc


18 posted on 04/21/2014 12:14:24 PM PDT by Cowboy Bob (They are called "Liberals" because the word "parasite" was already taken.)
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To: kingattax

Lady, nothing stopped you from practicing extra chin-ups just because you trained with the women.

Like you said, 26 men failed with you. You are 63 INCHES TALL! I doubt many 5’3” men make it through either.

I’m glad that you don’t want the Marines to lower its standards. But wanting the Marines to spend very finite resources on making women meet the standards is not the best way for the Marines to accomplish its highest objectives either.


19 posted on 04/21/2014 12:14:43 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("I'm a Contra" -- President Ronald Reagan)
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To: AppyPappy

This woman isn’t seeking to become a sniper.


20 posted on 04/21/2014 12:14:44 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: henkster
'But I will change my opinion when she can take a 912 pound 37 mm anti tank gun and throw it up on top of a seven foot seawall to take out a couple of pillboxes.'

Let me know when you can find anyone that can do that by themselves.

As for combat. We have sent women to the battle field many times. They die. Just like men. It is a bad idea.

And while we are at it. Lets end females in the fire department and the police.

21 posted on 04/21/2014 12:15:03 PM PDT by Theoria (End Socialism : No more GOP and Dem candidates)
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To: AppyPappy

What’s yer point?


22 posted on 04/21/2014 12:15:11 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: kingattax

I think saying that women are physically, as a group, unsuited for all types of combat is not entirely logical.

For instance, I know of no physical reason why women should not be as effective as fighter or helicopter gunship pilots as men. Or snipers, for that matter. Or an all-female submarine crew.

Infantry combat is not the only type of combat there is.

Just finished a book on one possible way to build an effective force of female combat infantrypersons. The Amazon Legion by Tom Kratman. Military SF and an interesting book, though he’s not a particularly good writer.

Word of caution, none of Tom’s books are for those of faint heart or believers in a kinder/gentler philosophy.


23 posted on 04/21/2014 12:15:36 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: kingattax

Back in ‘52 I served w/a few real Old Corps Marines...one common response from many of the, followa...

Ya Can Shock the Sh!t Troops...
But Ya Cannot Sh!t the Shock Troops!
*****
Dick.G: AMERICAN !!!!!
*****


24 posted on 04/21/2014 12:15:45 PM PDT by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: dainbramaged

Fred Reed said something along those lines. When you have a combat unit of 12 men, you have a “band of brothers” sort of thing. When it is 11 men and one woman, you have 11 men competing for the favors of the one woman.

That is a really bad thing.


25 posted on 04/21/2014 12:15:45 PM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: kingattax

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/839386/posts


26 posted on 04/21/2014 12:16:15 PM PDT by pabianice (LINE)
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To: kingattax

Here is a idea. Work out in your free time like most other Marines did when I was in. Stop blaming someone else because you failed to prepare yourself in advance. This lady would make a terrible officer if she does not grasp that failure by her is not someone elses fault.


27 posted on 04/21/2014 12:17:09 PM PDT by jimpick
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To: kingattax
full metal jacket photo: Gunnery Sergeant Hartman sgthartman.gif
28 posted on 04/21/2014 12:17:42 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: central_va

find out..


29 posted on 04/21/2014 12:17:58 PM PDT by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: Silentgypsy
I wonder how Israel handles it. Good thing to research.

The Israelis do not send their women into combat. They do things like handle training and various non-combat jobs. They do train them in how to shoot, as they may find themselves as the last line of defense for the children if the Muslims break through.

30 posted on 04/21/2014 12:19:46 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: dainbramaged

Amen - I will repeat what I have said before on this issue. The only way to accomodate Sage and her sisters who want to compete for frontline combat positions is to make it an all-female unit. So, girls, if you can carry all the equipment you need and you can can carry your wounded sister(s) back to safety, then have at it. No man’s life or limb should be compromised because a few women think they can do it all. Sage, you knew what was required. You could have trained the way you seem to think women need to train. You failed, and you were highly motivated. Is this not a ‘Duh’ moment?


31 posted on 04/21/2014 12:20:17 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Dr. Sivana

As you say, most women are considerably smaller than most men. Small men are at a disadvantage in combat, though it never seemed to slow the Japs or VC down all that much.

So here she is, probably 40% less strength than a shrimpy man of equal size, and she’s surprised that she didn’t pass.

BTW, that bit where she just collapsed and couldn’t go on? What does she think happens in combat to someone taken that way? Either somebody takes care of her, drastically reducing the unit’s efficiency, or she dies.


32 posted on 04/21/2014 12:20:25 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

Maybe we could have all faggot/women units in the Federal Army. They can wave the Rainbow flag and self identify to the enemy.


33 posted on 04/21/2014 12:20:40 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: elhombrelibre

That is what they (and our enemies) want.


34 posted on 04/21/2014 12:20:47 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: Silentgypsy

Israel does not allow women in combat, IIRC. They can however, be utilized to instruct men’s combat training.


35 posted on 04/21/2014 12:22:38 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: gunnyg

Find out what?


36 posted on 04/21/2014 12:23:03 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: kingattax

Waiting for the secret service protection detail to be fifty percent women.


37 posted on 04/21/2014 12:23:04 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: kingattax
Set up to fail by Mother Nature.
Nearly all women are too weak to pass a test of physical manhood.
Yo, Sage, be a man about it and quite whining.
38 posted on 04/21/2014 12:23:43 PM PDT by Amagi (Lenin: "Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.")
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To: Sherman Logan
For instance, I know of no physical reason why women should not be as effective as fighter or helicopter gunship pilots as men. Or snipers, for that matter. Or an all-female submarine crew.

Women are fine as pilots. As long as the thing doesn't come down behind enemy lines. If it does, then they are in the situation of having to "escape and evade", possibly carrying a wounded comrade.

For snipers, the Russian women snipers were fine as defensive snipers, where they didn't have to sneak across enemy terrain carrying all their stuff on their backs.

39 posted on 04/21/2014 12:24:59 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

That appears to no longer be entirely true. For most of a decade now, the Israelis have had a policy similar to ours recently put in place.

Prior to that, women had not served in combat since the War of Independence, when anybody who could shoot was put into the line.


40 posted on 04/21/2014 12:25:36 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

Well if she wanted to be a pilot perhaps she should have skipped the Marines’ Infantry Officer course and applied for flight school.


41 posted on 04/21/2014 12:25:55 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: central_va

Oddly enough, exactly what Kratman’s book proposes.


42 posted on 04/21/2014 12:26:36 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: kingattax

If you read the original article what she is asking for is reasonable. She wants more rigorous training for women and a second chance to try the test, just like men get.

The article says that the Marine commandant agreed to allowing a re-try but did not change PT for women. That makes sense to me. Make it the same as for men on the re-try. Most women in the Marines do not want to get into combat MOS’s and raising their PT would just make it harder for them. If a woman wants to get into a combat MOS she can train more by herself or with other women who also want to do it.


43 posted on 04/21/2014 12:26:39 PM PDT by fifedom
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Almost any number of men can be killed in combat, without affecting the population of the next generation.

I could be wrong, but I sense this particular woman will not reproduce.

44 posted on 04/21/2014 12:27:07 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: AppyPappy

Sniping — the way the Russians did it — is a guerrilla activity. Women can be very effective guerrillas. “Leg Infantry” is another matter. That’s where you’re asking your basic female to carry the equivalent of her own weight on her back. A particular female might be able to do it... for a while. It’s not just strength, it’s about endurance and toughness.


45 posted on 04/21/2014 12:27:14 PM PDT by Tallguy
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To: Sherman Logan

” Or an all-female submarine crew”

Low hanging fruit for the comedians.


46 posted on 04/21/2014 12:27:33 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
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To: kingattax

After Washington Post op-ed from Santangelo ’12, Marine Corps changes its policy

Following its publication, the Marine Corps announced that it was changing one of the policies Santangelo criticized, saying it would allow women to retake the course in the future.

http://bowdoinorient.com/article/9246


47 posted on 04/21/2014 12:28:30 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Rebelbase

I think a mixed sub crew is a recipe for disaster. Mixed crew surface ships are bad enough. But I don’t see any particular reason we couldn’t have male and female sub crews.


48 posted on 04/21/2014 12:28:54 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: PapaBear3625

Women tend to have better fine motor skills then men. They are also certainly smart enough.

The standards were lowered when women became pilots.


49 posted on 04/21/2014 12:29:56 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: elhombrelibre
We merely need to lower those standards.

OLD MILITARY

Listen up Maggot!!!

PC MILITARY

Good morning, ladies. Today is such a special day. Today, we are going to count to three after you pull the pin on the grenade. If that is too much at once just show me your time out card and I’ll let you take a nap after we’ve had cookies and milk.

50 posted on 04/21/2014 12:30:22 PM PDT by QT3.14
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