Skip to comments.A Marine's story: Women set up to fail USMC’s most grueling test
Posted on 04/21/2014 12:00:08 PM PDT by kingattax
VIDEO AT LINK
At a petite 53, Sage Santangelo may not look like a combat fighter at first glance. But the female second lieutenant has never let that hold her back from pursuing her dream of becoming an infantry officer in the Marine Corps.
Growing up, Santangelo found she was always able to keep up with the guys and enjoyed playing hockey on all boys teams. But when she joined the Marines, Santangelo found the playing field changed; she was segregated into female-only training units and as a woman, was relegated to less strenuous physical training than her male counterparts. And thats why, Santangelo told On the Radar, she didnt have a fair shot at passing the Marine Corps Infantry Officer Course.
It was an awesome opportunity for me to be able to try the course, and an opportunity for me to learn what the ground combat element does and how I can support them in the future, and how to become a better leader in the Marines overall, Santangelo said of the Marines Infantry Officer course, which she failed out of on the first day.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Nobody likes a whiner Sage...
Well, it is a bad idea.
On the other hand, Women in a combat deployable MOS who don’t deploy to combat is an even worse idea. They take up billets that otherwise allow combat troops to de-stress between combat tours.
There is a way for women to successfully to complete elite military training (Marine Infantry, SEALS, Rangers, Air Force Combat Controllers, etc.). We merely need to lower those standards.
Most people may believe it but to say so in public is still considered heresy.
Can this 5’-3” shrimp carry a wounded man over her shoulder? A man that was likely hurt while instinctively trying to protect her worthless butt? We have truly stepped through the looking glass here.
So is she saying God “set her up to fail?” Because He’s the one who made her fundamentally different from men. There is no way she will ever be qualified to be rifle platoon commander.
But I will change my opinion when she can take a 912 pound 37 mm anti tank gun and throw it up on top of a seven foot seawall to take out a couple of pillboxes. That’s what the Marines did at Tarawa.
Maybe she can also claim the enemy “set her up to fail.”
One woman our Marines won’t have to take into combat.
Thank God for small favors.
I wonder how Israel handles it. Good thing to research.
Men are the disposable sex. Almost any number of men can be killed in combat, without affecting the population of the next generation. The same cannot be said for young women killed in combat (or any other cause).
Because its all about her, not about the mission, capability, sheer ability to commit violence.
Its about her and being fair.
Yes. One of the top snipers in WW2 was a Russian woman.
She looks like a short, plump and butch Milla Jovovich.
As long as the test isn’t dumbed down for “equality reasons” I don’t care who passes it.
They were set up to fail this test when they were born. Most of them, anyway.
Physically, woman are equal to men and would do fine in combat situations. If you don’t believe me, go watch Wonder Woman and Laura Croft. And if that doesn’t convince you, watch a few episodes of “Power Puff Girls.” /sarc
Lady, nothing stopped you from practicing extra chin-ups just because you trained with the women.
Like you said, 26 men failed with you. You are 63 INCHES TALL! I doubt many 5’3” men make it through either.
I’m glad that you don’t want the Marines to lower its standards. But wanting the Marines to spend very finite resources on making women meet the standards is not the best way for the Marines to accomplish its highest objectives either.
This woman isn’t seeking to become a sniper.
Let me know when you can find anyone that can do that by themselves.
As for combat. We have sent women to the battle field many times. They die. Just like men. It is a bad idea.
And while we are at it. Lets end females in the fire department and the police.
What’s yer point?
I think saying that women are physically, as a group, unsuited for all types of combat is not entirely logical.
For instance, I know of no physical reason why women should not be as effective as fighter or helicopter gunship pilots as men. Or snipers, for that matter. Or an all-female submarine crew.
Infantry combat is not the only type of combat there is.
Just finished a book on one possible way to build an effective force of female combat infantrypersons. The Amazon Legion by Tom Kratman. Military SF and an interesting book, though he’s not a particularly good writer.
Word of caution, none of Tom’s books are for those of faint heart or believers in a kinder/gentler philosophy.
Back in ‘52 I served w/a few real Old Corps Marines...one common response from many of the, followa...
Ya Can Shock the Sh!t Troops...
But Ya Cannot Sh!t the Shock Troops!
Dick.G: AMERICAN !!!!!
Fred Reed said something along those lines. When you have a combat unit of 12 men, you have a “band of brothers” sort of thing. When it is 11 men and one woman, you have 11 men competing for the favors of the one woman.
That is a really bad thing.
Here is a idea. Work out in your free time like most other Marines did when I was in. Stop blaming someone else because you failed to prepare yourself in advance. This lady would make a terrible officer if she does not grasp that failure by her is not someone elses fault.
The Israelis do not send their women into combat. They do things like handle training and various non-combat jobs. They do train them in how to shoot, as they may find themselves as the last line of defense for the children if the Muslims break through.
Amen - I will repeat what I have said before on this issue. The only way to accomodate Sage and her sisters who want to compete for frontline combat positions is to make it an all-female unit. So, girls, if you can carry all the equipment you need and you can can carry your wounded sister(s) back to safety, then have at it. No man’s life or limb should be compromised because a few women think they can do it all. Sage, you knew what was required. You could have trained the way you seem to think women need to train. You failed, and you were highly motivated. Is this not a ‘Duh’ moment?
As you say, most women are considerably smaller than most men. Small men are at a disadvantage in combat, though it never seemed to slow the Japs or VC down all that much.
So here she is, probably 40% less strength than a shrimpy man of equal size, and she’s surprised that she didn’t pass.
BTW, that bit where she just collapsed and couldn’t go on? What does she think happens in combat to someone taken that way? Either somebody takes care of her, drastically reducing the unit’s efficiency, or she dies.
Maybe we could have all faggot/women units in the Federal Army. They can wave the Rainbow flag and self identify to the enemy.
That is what they (and our enemies) want.
Israel does not allow women in combat, IIRC. They can however, be utilized to instruct men’s combat training.
Find out what?
Waiting for the secret service protection detail to be fifty percent women.
Women are fine as pilots. As long as the thing doesn't come down behind enemy lines. If it does, then they are in the situation of having to "escape and evade", possibly carrying a wounded comrade.
For snipers, the Russian women snipers were fine as defensive snipers, where they didn't have to sneak across enemy terrain carrying all their stuff on their backs.
That appears to no longer be entirely true. For most of a decade now, the Israelis have had a policy similar to ours recently put in place.
Prior to that, women had not served in combat since the War of Independence, when anybody who could shoot was put into the line.
Well if she wanted to be a pilot perhaps she should have skipped the Marines Infantry Officer course and applied for flight school.
Oddly enough, exactly what Kratman’s book proposes.
If you read the original article what she is asking for is reasonable. She wants more rigorous training for women and a second chance to try the test, just like men get.
The article says that the Marine commandant agreed to allowing a re-try but did not change PT for women. That makes sense to me. Make it the same as for men on the re-try. Most women in the Marines do not want to get into combat MOS’s and raising their PT would just make it harder for them. If a woman wants to get into a combat MOS she can train more by herself or with other women who also want to do it.
I could be wrong, but I sense this particular woman will not reproduce.
Sniping — the way the Russians did it — is a guerrilla activity. Women can be very effective guerrillas. “Leg Infantry” is another matter. That’s where you’re asking your basic female to carry the equivalent of her own weight on her back. A particular female might be able to do it... for a while. It’s not just strength, it’s about endurance and toughness.
” Or an all-female submarine crew”
Low hanging fruit for the comedians.
After Washington Post op-ed from Santangelo 12, Marine Corps changes its policy
Following its publication, the Marine Corps announced that it was changing one of the policies Santangelo criticized, saying it would allow women to retake the course in the future.
I think a mixed sub crew is a recipe for disaster. Mixed crew surface ships are bad enough. But I don’t see any particular reason we couldn’t have male and female sub crews.
Women tend to have better fine motor skills then men. They are also certainly smart enough.
The standards were lowered when women became pilots.
Listen up Maggot!!!
Good morning, ladies. Today is such a special day. Today, we are going to count to three after you pull the pin on the grenade. If that is too much at once just show me your time out card and Ill let you take a nap after weve had cookies and milk.