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"Without God, people can do as they please"
Catallaxy Files ^ | April 21, 2014 | Steve Kates

Posted on 04/22/2014 8:33:32 AM PDT by No One Special

china christianity

One of the most enlightening books I have ever come across was The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success by Rodney Stark. And at the very end of this book there is a quote from a Chinese scholar who had been part of an investigation into the causes of Western economic success. This is a direct quote of what this Chinese scholar had said:

One of the things we were asked to look at was the success, in fact, the pre-eminence of the West, all over the world. We studied everything we could from the historical, political, economic and cultural perspective. At first, we thought it was because you had more powerful guns than we had. Then we thought it was because you had the best political system. Next we focused on your economic system. But in the past twenty years we have realised that the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity. That is why the West is so powerful. The Christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made possible the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics. We don’t have any doubt about this.

I was reminded of this by an article in London’s The Telegraph with the self-explanatory heading, China on course to become ‘world’s most Christian nation’ within 15 years. And while you may be sure the Chinese government has been keeping a watchful eye on where this might go, they have also not been attempting to stamp it out. And there are reasons for this, in keeping with that earlier study:

Some officials argue that religious groups can provide social services the government cannot, while simultaneously helping reverse a growing moral crisis in a land where cash, not Communism, has now become king.

They appear to agree with David Cameron, the British prime minister, who said last week that Christianity could help boost Britain’s “spiritual, physical and moral” state.

Ms Shi, Liushi’s preacher, who is careful to describe her church as “patriotic”, said: “We have two motivations: one is our gospel mission and the other is serving society. Christianity can also play a role in maintaining peace and stability in society. Without God, people can do as they please.”

In place of a moral order we now have political correctness and the pagan religion of Gaia and the environment. China, meanwhile, may become a Christian nation as we in the West depart from what may be the single most important part of the inheritance we have.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: china; christianity; christiannation; christianwest
Go to the site to get over 400 comments mainly from Australian conservatives with professionl interest in economics.
1 posted on 04/22/2014 8:33:32 AM PDT by No One Special
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To: No One Special

Now the West has turned its back on Christ. We are entering a new dark age.


2 posted on 04/22/2014 8:38:16 AM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: No One Special

Looks like me learning Chinese needs to move up quite a lot on my Bucket List.

Shoot, they will soon own our debt and us anyway. And if they can figure out the secret to Greatness is through morality, then I for one say ‘Welcome to our Chinese Overlords.’

(sarc tag or no sarc tag. can’t decide)


3 posted on 04/22/2014 8:46:18 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: beethovenfan

Exactly. We flourished with the Judeo-Christian moral foundation. The further we go towards communism and atheism, the more we founder.


4 posted on 04/22/2014 8:49:27 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: No One Special
Max Weber explained it long ago in The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.
5 posted on 04/22/2014 8:55:21 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Responsibility2nd

(sarc tag or no sarc tag. can’t decide)


I was thinking the same thing. :-)


6 posted on 04/22/2014 8:55:41 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: No One Special

“..the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity. That is why the West is so powerful. The Christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made possible the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics. We don’t have any doubt about this.”

Amen.


7 posted on 04/22/2014 8:57:01 AM PDT by ForYourChildren (Christian Education [ RomanRoadsMedia.com - a classical Christian approach to homeschool])
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To: No One Special
"Without God, people can do as they please"

People can always do as they please. God gave us free will. The issue is now that people don't want, nor do they understand, the consequences of doing as they please. Its called "Natural Law."

8 posted on 04/22/2014 8:58:11 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: hinckley buzzard

Read Stark. The success was not just the result of Protestantism. Medieval Catholic monasteries also played an important part.


9 posted on 04/22/2014 9:00:40 AM PDT by omega4412
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To: Responsibility2nd
Hi.

Shoot, they will soon own our debt and us anyway. And if they can figure out the secret to Greatness is through morality, then I for one say ‘Welcome to our Chinese Overlords.’

I understand where you are coming from, but I'm still going to shoot them (until I run out of ammo), anyway.

5.56mm

10 posted on 04/22/2014 9:01:52 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: ForYourChildren; No One Special; All
Early histories of America, as well as the words of its Founders and early leaders, confirm the observation reposted here by ForYourChildren.

"Ideas have consequences"(Weaver).

The ideas of 1776 came out of a set of ideas consistent with liberty for individuals, not power for political elites.

We tend to forget, or have never considered, that other world views existed then, as now.

Unless today's citizens rediscover the ideas of liberty existing in what Jefferson called "the American mind" of 1776, we risk going back to the "Old World" ideas which preceded the "Miracle of America."

There are those who call themselves "progressives," when, in fact, their ideas are regressive and enslaving, and as old as the history of civilization.

Would suggest to any who wish an authentic history of the ideas underlying American's founding a visit to this web site, at which Richard Frothingham's outstanding 1872 "History of the Rise of the Republic of the United States" can be read on line.

This 600+-page history traces the ideas which gave birth to the American founding. Throughout, Richard Frothingham, the historian, develops the idea that it is "the Christian idea of man" which allowed the philosophy underlying the Declaration of Independence and Constitution to become a reality--an idea which recognizes the individual and the Source of his/her "Creator"-endowed life, liberty and law.

Is there any wonder that the enemies of freedom, the so-called "progressives," do not promote such authentic histories of America? Their philosophy puts something called "the state," or "global interests" as being superior to individuals and requires a political elitist group (themselves and their cookie-cutter ideologues) to decide what role individuals are to play.

In other words, they must turn the Founders' ideas upside-down in order to achieve a common mediocrity for individuals and power for themselves.

11 posted on 04/22/2014 9:04:55 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: No One Special

This has been know for a long time. The liberals hate it as they hate all truth. They want to destroy America just like they want to destroy the Jews because both remind them of a God they claim doesn’t exist - but secretly fear he might - all the while telling us how much smarter they are than you and I.

The King will return someday (soon I think) and when he does, he’s going to kick serious butt!


12 posted on 04/22/2014 9:06:11 AM PDT by Lake Living
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To: No One Special

13 posted on 04/22/2014 9:08:18 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: M Kehoe

I agree wit BOTH of you, but, still, this is some serious good news. If China goes Christian, it’s over for the left. OVER.


14 posted on 04/22/2014 9:10:39 AM PDT by txhurl
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To: ForYourChildren

More specifically, this is an American phenomenon rather than just Western. At the least, we were a moral people.


15 posted on 04/22/2014 9:14:38 AM PDT by No One Special
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To: No One Special
They appear to agree with David Cameron, the British prime minister, who said last week that Christianity could help boost Britain’s “spiritual, physical and moral” state.

I think the British Empire was the single greatest influence on modern civilization. They tamed and civilized many non-Christian areas.

16 posted on 04/22/2014 9:16:55 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: txhurl
Reminds me of this:

The flames kindled on the Fourth of July, 1776, have spread over too much of the globe to be extinguished by the feeble engines of despotism; on the contrary, they will consume these engines and all who work them.

--Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1821

17 posted on 04/22/2014 9:21:58 AM PDT by No One Special
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To: Lake Living
John 3:19

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
18 posted on 04/22/2014 9:35:55 AM PDT by Old Yeller (In Latin, the word sinister means left. Which is appropriate for left-wingers.)
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To: No One Special

Very nice!

Then there’s always personal experience. Chinese can come over here and stay in a hotel, shop, buy a house, put their kids in school, see American couples with adopted Chinese kids, feel safe and protected, and with not much effort realize the reason: Christian conservatism.


19 posted on 04/22/2014 9:36:01 AM PDT by txhurl
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To: Blood of Tyrants

The culture is plundering the talent capital, Marxist style, as if Capital and inheritence were the gods to acquire or destroy, when those without capital but with God living in them is what created it all. Oh well...


20 posted on 04/22/2014 9:44:22 AM PDT by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: No One Special

bkmk


21 posted on 04/22/2014 9:55:03 AM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: All

“Without God, people can do as they please.” – Probably poorly translated. Most major atheist philosophers admit to one great problem with their belief, to wit: if there is no God, if there is no supreme moral force, if there is no overarching law, then all morality devolves to mere opinion. And no opinion can be considered any more or less valid than any other opinion. The very concepts of right and wrong, good and evil, become utterly meaningless – there are no real rules because we truly are animals.

You can have your personal morality (growing up around hippies they were constantly pontificating about their morality – which had a nice veneer but when pressured always seemed to conveniently revolve around them and their personal wants, desires and self-gratification). And I can have mine. If it makes me happy to kidnap people, rape and torture them and then eat them alive (Caligula) then who is to say my morality is any less valid than yours?

“Without God, people can do anything they want”.
Are Christians perfect? Depressingly far from it. But Christianity is the only religion that preaches love, peace, kindness, gentleness, honesty, humbleness etc. as more than an after thought. Islam has certain rules but they only apply to other Muslims – not to infidels. The central tenet of Buddhism is to not care – about anything or anyone. Hinduism studied as a whole is depraved and produces incredible cruelty.

Without the self restraint born of Christianity capitalism will not function well – or at all. Without SELF restraint the culture will clamor for government – the progressives, regressive dream. And that government will be oppressive.


22 posted on 04/22/2014 11:20:24 AM PDT by QuisCustodiet1776 (Live free or die.)
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To: QuisCustodiet1776
Hi.

there are no real rules because we truly are animals.

There is a real rule, and it is survival of the fittest, and we are animals if not constrained by a higher power's authority.

5.56mm

23 posted on 04/22/2014 11:29:13 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: No One Special

“Without God, people can do as they please”

Governments too!


24 posted on 04/22/2014 11:50:30 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: MarineBrat

Ping myself for later.


25 posted on 04/22/2014 12:08:38 PM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: No One Special

America’s fate —

Hosea 4:6
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.”


26 posted on 04/22/2014 1:23:42 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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