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College Degrees Aren't Becoming More Valuable
Forbes ^ | April 21, 2014 | George Leef

Posted on 04/22/2014 9:11:31 AM PDT by reaganaut1

Every time a new study comes out regarding the “payoff” from college, I wonder: Will this finally be the one that takes note of widespread underemployment among recent grads and comprehends the impact of credential inflation?

In February, Pew Research released a study on the effects of college but the instant I saw the title, I was sure that this would not be one that broke out of the usual “college is a great investment” model. That study, “The Rising Cost of Not Going to College,” actually moves further in the wrong direction by telling people that those who don’t go to college are penalizing themselves.

The many “college is a great investment” papers present statistics showing that, on average, individuals who have college educations earn more than do people without them. They left the conclusion, “If you aren’t planning on college, you really should,” implicit.

Pew, however, makes that explicit. “If you don’t go to college, you’ll lose out big time” is the message it sends.

What makes that message particularly distressing is the fact that more and more young Americans who have their college degrees are unable to find jobs they couldn’t have gotten straight out of high school—or maybe even while still in high school. They’re often struggling with large college debts. And yet this study tells them that going to college is more important than ever.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: college; education; georgeleef
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1 posted on 04/22/2014 9:11:32 AM PDT by reaganaut1
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To: reaganaut1

Don’t take a PHD..supply and demand. High supply of egg-heads and low demand for them.


2 posted on 04/22/2014 9:14:24 AM PDT by Paul46360
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To: reaganaut1

No investment in yourself is going to pay off, if we keep off-shoring American industries.


3 posted on 04/22/2014 9:14:56 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: reaganaut1

No investment in yourself is going to pay off, if we keep off-shoring American industries.


4 posted on 04/22/2014 9:14:56 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: reaganaut1

If everyone goes to college it stands to reason that over time the value of a degree will go down.


5 posted on 04/22/2014 9:16:53 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: reaganaut1

I have a 17-year old and a 15-year old, both traditional “college material”.

The marketing pressure in both of them is incredible. What a scam.


6 posted on 04/22/2014 9:18:46 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: reaganaut1

If the price of college keeps going up even STEM degrees will become uneconomical.


7 posted on 04/22/2014 9:19:01 AM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: dfwgator

But... the left needs four more years to program young skulls full of mush.


8 posted on 04/22/2014 9:19:30 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: dfwgator

And Moochelle’s proclamations that everyone should go to college are becoming increasingly hollow, like her head.


9 posted on 04/22/2014 9:20:38 AM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: 17th Miss Regt

10 posted on 04/22/2014 9:22:03 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

I think part of the problem is that people with degrees and can’t find a job are in that position because of misguided public policy. As a result, degreed people are taking jobs where they are over-qualified simply because the demand for their skill set isn’t needed in the market.

Try this: Cut business taxes to a max of 15% of earnings and personal income taxes to 17% and make personal income taxes a flat rate—no deductions for anything. (This is not the Fair Tax because there’s no Prebate here.) Now, stand back and watch what happens, including an influx of capital from the Pacific Rim.

Which country is currently experiencing the most rapid growth in the world? Chile. And guess which country has the lowest taxes on corporate and personal income? Accident? Not so much...


11 posted on 04/22/2014 9:23:16 AM PDT by econjack (I'm not bossy...I just know what you should be doing.)
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To: econjack

Unfortunately didn’t Chile just vote for the socialists who are going to undo all the good things Pinochet did?


12 posted on 04/22/2014 9:24:45 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: reaganaut1

IMO, if kids today don’t gain the skills so they know how to repair something, they are going to have a difficult if not impossible task finding a job.

There is a huge need for competent welders, plumbers, electricians, HVAC people and yes ditch diggers.


13 posted on 04/22/2014 9:27:27 AM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: dfwgator

>>Unfortunately didn’t Chile just vote for the socialists who are going to undo all the good things Pinochet did?<<

No doubt, the grand success of socialism in Venezuela inspired them...


14 posted on 04/22/2014 9:33:29 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: reaganaut1

College is only worth the student loan if you are learning a hard skill, e.g. accounting, engineering or medicine.

There is another reason it’s worth it: If you are pretty much skill and talent free it can at least get you a shingle. That might get you out of McDonalds.


15 posted on 04/22/2014 9:34:31 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: Jim Noble

A person can go to computer school and learn C#, Java, MVC4 etc. and, if they have the aptitude for it, within a few years be looking at a comfortable six figure income.

College is not what it used to be.


16 posted on 04/22/2014 9:36:02 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: dfwgator
Yes, the new President, a woman, is a Socialist, but a little different than most. She hasn't changed much of what was in place before:

Bachelet was widely credited for resisting calls from politicians from her own coalition to spend the huge copper revenues to close the country's income gap.[28][62] Instead in 2007 she created the Economic and Social Stabilization Fund, a sovereign wealth fund which accumulates fiscal surpluses which are above 1% of GDP.[63] This strategy allowed her to finance new social policies and provide economic stimulus packages when the 2008 financial crisis hit the country.[28]

Where Allende was punitive to business, at least she knows that markets lay the golden egg.

17 posted on 04/22/2014 9:36:20 AM PDT by econjack (I'm not bossy...I just know what you should be doing.)
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To: Grams A

>>IMO, if kids today don’t gain the skills so they know how to repair something, they are going to have a difficult if not impossible task finding a job.

There is a huge need for competent welders, plumbers, electricians, HVAC people and yes ditch diggers.<<

A lot of people are suggesting we specifically create a 2-track PARALLEL system: Trades and Universities. Some brilliant people just don’t do well in academia. They should be able to choose an alternative, not stumble into it by default.

And we, as a society, should applaud tradesmen as strongly as we do College Degrees.


18 posted on 04/22/2014 9:37:03 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: freedumb2003

It’s called having a “Knowledge/Skills Portfolio”, just as with any financial portfolio, the idea is to have a diverse set of skills so that one can be in demand as economic conditions change.


19 posted on 04/22/2014 9:38:30 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: cuban leaf

>>A person can go to computer school and learn C#, Java, MVC4 etc. and, if they have the aptitude for it, within a few years be looking at a comfortable six figure income.
<<

Programming is a trade. Knowing what is needed and how to apply it is a skill.

Programmers are basically fungible. There really is no future in it today.


20 posted on 04/22/2014 9:38:59 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: reaganaut1

It all depends what your degree is in. A degree in African American or women’s studies is worthless, while a degree in engineering will land you a good job.


21 posted on 04/22/2014 9:39:27 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: reaganaut1

Lower standards (including identity studies) and more financial aid means more people with college degrees who are, well, stupid. Plus, Obamanomics. However, having a college degree gives you a better chance at getting a job than not having one.

http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/college-unemployment.png

Of course, you’re in a ton of debt when you’re finished and salaries are horrible.


22 posted on 04/22/2014 9:39:29 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: cuban leaf

The only thing a liberal arts college degree is worth is the box on the job application that says college degree.

Basically kids are going into debt for $100,000 so they can potentially get an interview.


23 posted on 04/22/2014 9:40:35 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
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To: reaganaut1

The entire education system is just a vehicle for funding billions of dollars to liberals who would starve to death if they actually had to work to support themselves.


24 posted on 04/22/2014 9:40:48 AM PDT by Fido969 (What's sad is most)
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To: freedumb2003

If all you do is programming, I would agree.

However to me, a “programmer” does much more than just code...They are a business analyst, project manager, and subject matter expert as well. If you can’t do those things as well, then yes, your prospects will not be very good over time.


25 posted on 04/22/2014 9:41:27 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: skeeter

And they do. I’m starting a PhD program next semester, and they have every intention of making a Marxist out of me.


26 posted on 04/22/2014 9:41:34 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: dfwgator

>>However to me, a “programmer” does much more than just code...They are a business analyst, project manager, and subject matter expert as well. If you can’t do those things as well, then yes, your prospects will not be very good over time.<<

You are describing an analyst. Programming is just slinging code. In the industry that distinction is critical.

Programmers say “I write programs.” Analysts say “I develop solutions.”

It is terminology but it is an important distinction. I 100% guarantee that when I see a resume that features programming it goes in the bit bucket...


27 posted on 04/22/2014 9:48:07 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: demshateGod

>> I’m starting a PhD program next semester, and they have every intention of making a Marxist out of me.<<

Your job: make Capitalists out of them.


28 posted on 04/22/2014 9:49:38 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: cuban leaf
A person can go to computer school and learn C#, Java, MVC4 etc. and, if they have the aptitude for it, within a few years be looking at a comfortable six figure income.

A "computer school?" What exactly is that?

And I would argue, there's a big difference between "learning" a language, and understanding software design and architecture, security, human factors in interfaces, communications' skills, data architecture, software optimzation, etc.

My point is, don't confuse "writing code" with designing well-functioning software. A four-year degree in CS, MIS, and other engineering disciplines typically demands more from its students than they would from a 12- or 18-month program. The "computer schools" you refer to typically focus on a hot language or skill (Java, MS certification, etc.), and many students can't make the leap if they're exposed to something else.

I would bet that a lot of the people that worked on the HeathCare.gov site only went to "computer schools."

29 posted on 04/22/2014 9:51:15 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: reaganaut1

Value of a “degree” varies given market conditions.
Value of “education”....priceless.


30 posted on 04/22/2014 9:52:11 AM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: freedumb2003

Programmers are basically fungible. There really is no future in it today.


That’s why I said, “if you’ve got the aptitude”. The developers on my team are well paid because they are smart guys that know what they are doing. It has true value and they are paid well for it.


31 posted on 04/22/2014 9:53:44 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: EQAndyBuzz

The only thing a liberal arts college degree is worth is the box on the job application that says college degree.

Basically kids are going into debt for $100,000 so they can potentially get an interview.


That is exactly how I see it. You encapsulated it well.


32 posted on 04/22/2014 9:54:27 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: 17th Miss Regt
If the price of college keeps going up even STEM degrees will become uneconomical.

So we will clandestinely take to educating ourselves in underground 'STEM cells'.

HA! HA! HA! HA! See what I did there?

33 posted on 04/22/2014 9:55:49 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: reaganaut1

You’d be better off learning a high demand trade.


34 posted on 04/22/2014 10:00:44 AM PDT by Old Yeller (In Latin, the word sinister means left. Which is appropriate for left-wingers.)
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To: reaganaut1

Employers need to get a clue and take a lesson from Rosie the Riveter.

Most reasonably intelligent people can be trained to do most jobs. And to do them rather well.


35 posted on 04/22/2014 10:09:42 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Fido969

College...it’s the new high school.


36 posted on 04/22/2014 10:15:38 AM PDT by dogcaller
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To: freedumb2003

And we, as a society, should applaud tradesmen as strongly as we do College Degrees.”

So agree. But we, as a society, seem to put the “dirty hands jobs” in the same category as Bible tottin’, gun carryin’, small government advocates.

Friend’s son finished a two year electrician’s program offered at a four year college five years ago. Started his own company two years ago. Has four employees now, all have new trucks, has huge home, two new babies and his wife handles their business affairs. Totally debt free. Took and continues to take a lot of hours but he loves it.


37 posted on 04/22/2014 10:21:30 AM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

I was a high school dropout who ended up as a paint room foreman with the responsibility to maintain, program and operate robotics.

All it took was an interest and a willingness to learn.


38 posted on 04/22/2014 10:22:25 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Grams A

Yes, and what we have become is the Elitist States of America, where having no college degree makes you a stoopid hillbilly inbred non-person. The plumbers and electricians can laugh all the way to the bank.


39 posted on 04/22/2014 10:23:54 AM PDT by hulagirl (Mother Theresa was right)
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To: cripplecreek

>>All it took was an interest and a willingness to learn.<<

It is sadly amazing how rare those qualities are.


40 posted on 04/22/2014 10:25:23 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: reaganaut1

It is quite true that college graduates have a significantly lower unemployment rate than non-college graduates.

It is also quite true that costs of a college education has skyrocketed to an insane level in recent years and that student debt levels these days defy imagination.

That all stated, there are a number of things college students can do to keep colleges expenses to a minimum:

1) Select a public university as opposed to a private expensive college.

2) Choose a university near your home and commute to school as opposed to living in a college dorm.

3) Work part time jobs and keep borrowing to a minimum, socializing to a minimum, and partying to a minimum.

I know this works. It’s what I did to get through college. I also attended summer session and never participated in Spring Break or fraternities.

I worked like a dog to get through college in six years earning both a B.A. and an M.A. and I graduated with a minimum amount of stdent loan debt, about $9000.00 which was all paid off within about ten years after graduation.


41 posted on 04/22/2014 10:29:12 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: freedumb2003

It also helped to volunteer for every second of overtime they would give me. I worked 12 hour shifts for 4 months without a day off when I got into that department.


42 posted on 04/22/2014 10:31:10 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: reaganaut1

I skipped college and the mountain of debt that goes with it and went straight to being a mom. It’s the best job in the world and it’s WAY better than slogging through traffic every day to get to a job I hate so I can off my debts so maybe one day when I’m in my 40’s I can start a family.


43 posted on 04/22/2014 10:33:28 AM PDT by MeganC (Support Matt Bevin to oust Mitch McConnell! https://mattbevin.com/)
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To: Lazamataz

If the price of college keeps going up even STEM degrees will become uneconomical.
So we will clandestinely take to educating ourselves in underground ‘STEM cells’.

HA! HA! HA! HA! See what I did there?

Yes! And it’s very funny.

Did you use your college degree to do it?

;-)


44 posted on 04/22/2014 10:38:21 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (Never Forget the Seals of Extortion 17 - and God Bless America)
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To: cuban leaf

Back in the late 90s when I was a poor state public TV employee with an overblown title and joke salary, I tried the shotgun effect of learning computer repair and programming. I maxed the hardware classes but bombed C big time.


45 posted on 04/22/2014 10:47:25 AM PDT by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.)
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To: Fido969

Fido - Very good observation. Also the one someone said about just wanting to keep kids four more years to brain wash them more (since it is all about political correctness and not critical thinking).

The higher (and public) education systems does look like they have turned into nothing but scams built to put us into lifelong debt slavery while quashing all ‘unapproved’ ideas, rights, or individuality.


46 posted on 04/22/2014 10:48:10 AM PDT by TianaHighrider (Restoration of the Constitution first and foremost)
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To: reaganaut1

College is now an employment program for leftist losers. Sure there are the chemists, doctors, architect, and engineers that teach and come out of college. But the vast majority of courses are just to keep fellow lefties employed. How many art history majors does the world need? Where else can the poverty pimps, sexists, racists, and misanthropes stay employed?


47 posted on 04/22/2014 10:51:25 AM PDT by Organic Panic
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To: dfwgator

That describes the lead programmer very well. He has to have a hand in most things that go on. I’ve learned a lot from just hanging with him some.


48 posted on 04/22/2014 10:54:14 AM PDT by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.)
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To: cripplecreek
All it took was an interest and a willingness to learn.

If only more college students exhibited those traits.

49 posted on 04/22/2014 10:55:00 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: freedumb2003; demshateGod

>> “Your job: make Capitalists out of them.” <<

Risky for a PhD candidate. Its all so subjective these days.
.


50 posted on 04/22/2014 11:08:45 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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